<p>Very confusing title :)
But here is the scoop:
My kids is a freshman in an IB program (pre-IB) taking AP Calc BC right now.
Starting next year he will have to take math outside of the school.
The only other math class that he will HAVE to take at the school will be IB HL Math during his senior year.
We are debating right now which class he should take at the University next year.
Each class is only a semester, meaning he can actually take two during the year.
Should he concentrate on math only or maybe take math one semester and some kind of science the next?
Should his math class be Calc 3, or since he is so young it would be advisable to actually repeat Calc 2 - class should be easy for him = less stress= better transition to the univeristy?
I am asking this because he is basically looking at 3 years of univeristy math (I imagine he will be also taking math at the univeristy as a senior as IB Math will be a repeat for him). Why rush things at this point?
And talking about science. He will take AP Physics B exam this year but chances are the school will never offer AP Physics C . I was thinking that it would be smart to take a semester of math and then maybe a semester of intro physics.
Would love to hear from parents who had kids in similar position.
Have to add that the grade he gets from his university class will be the grade that goes on his HS transcript - the school really does not weigh classes, so getting a good grade from the university course is important .</p>
<p>Kelowna:</p>
<p>You probably remember my S’s story.
Is your S very comfortable with BC-Calc? If he is, I would not suggest repeating. My S did not and had no problem in MVCalc whatsoever. But if he is struggling a little, it would not harm repeating the class, provided that your S is not like mine, hating to repeat materials that’s already been covered or is unchallenging.
Your S could take discrete math, which usually covers a wider range of topics than MVCalc, then taken MVcalc and Linear Algebra later. He could take college Physics classes, but I would strongly suggest that he should not go without math classes for too long.
Colleges do look beyond GPA and class rank. Our school does not weigh, either. S was not ranked and his GPA was far from the very top; but the string of college classes surely was more impressive than a GPA based on CP or even Honors classes, and he had not trouble getting into the schools to which he applied.
Your S’s GC is no doubt aware of his situation, but it does no harm reminding him/her of your S’s needs and scheduling issues. Our hs works out the fall schedule in April, and for us, that was the best time to discuss S’s schedule. that was also the time when colleges have a better idea of their own class offerings and schedule. It involved a lot of discussions between S and his GC as they tried different scenarios.</p>
<p>^^
Very difficult to say how comfortable he is.
He has an A but for the first time in his life he needs to study math 
He is even laughing at himself saying that he does not know how to study it ;)</p>
<p>Obviously his BC class is full of juniors and seniors. All of the kids took AB prior to this. He audited Calc 1 at our local college, without really studying and caring much about it.
He says one very curious thing. The kids in his BC class are also the kids that he takes Honors Physics with. He says that he is about in the middle of the pack when it comes to BC but is a frontrunner in his physics class. Weird ???</p>
<p>Not weird. If he audited Calc 1 in college, he is ahead of the kids in Physics who are studying BC Calc concurrently.<br>
If he is getting As, he is not struggling–which does not mean that he does not have to work for that A. It’s a good thing that he has to actually study; otherwise he runs the risk of becoming an underachiever because things are too easy.
So, if he continues to do well in the BC class, he should not repeat Calc I and II.</p>
<p>My son was in exactly the same position. Here’s how it worked out for math and science:</p>
<p>Freshman year:
Pre-IB Biology and IB math at HS
self-studied AP calculus AB</p>
<p>Sophomore year:
Chemistry at HS
Calc II, Calc III, and Philosophy and Literature at university
self-studied AP Physics C Mech and E&M</p>
<p>Junior year:
no math or science at HS
Probability, Diff Eq’s, Survey of Math (upper didvision) at uni
self-studied AP Econ Micro and Macro, AP Chemistry
also self-studied Linear Algebra</p>
<p>Senior year
IB ChemistryHL at HS
Physics Lab, Complex Analysis, Electromagnetic Theory at uni
self-studied some quantum physics, some differential gemetry</p>
<p>There were always scheduling problems that limited the courses he could take at the university. He didn’t credit any of the classes back to the high school because the lack of weighting would have lowered his GPA, and also he had enough credits to get the HS degree without them.
The university was a breath of fresh air. They weren’t picky about pre-reqs (Maybe they were, but the professors themselves were always great about signing off on them). The weekly problem sets and exam dates given well ahead of time on the syllabus allowed my son who always seemed disorganized with the paper flurry of high school classes to be on top of things and unstressed even though the classes covered much more material.
In short, it was a good experience and great preparation for college.</p>
<p>S1’s math track in HS after BC Calc was a series of one semester college-level courses, taught on steroids. You are right that IB HL will be review – that’s why S1 didn’t apply to IB. S2 is in IB, and HL Math there is considered easier than the school’s full year MV course.
MV
Diff Eq
Calc-based Stat
Discrete
Lin Alg
Complex Analysis
Proofs
Also took several post-AP classes in Comp Sci and a Physics sequence which was based on the UMD physics major intro sequence, only with MV/DiffEq as pre-requisites (which made it easy to focus on the physics side rather than the math, and made the AP Physics C exams slam-dunk 5s). We were very, very fortunate that he was able to do this at the HS with his friends.</p>
<p>If you are concerned about placement into Calc II or Calc III, have your S try to find a syllabus or problem sets for the class online. S1 used to get assigned p-sets from other (well-known) colleges’ Calc II/Calc III courses, so we knew that what he was getting at the HS was truly college-level work. Math gets less and less about the numbers at one advances – so your S <em>should</em> be needing to study as the mathematical thinking gets more abstract. (That’s where lots of math-liking students hit the wall, just so you know.)</p>
<p>I’ll also mention that there are summer programs that will introduce your S to higher/deeper math (S attended HCSSiM) and the USAMTS offers VERY good work in proofs. S did USAMTS when he was taking MV/DiffEq/Discrete and found it challenged him quite sufficiently. If your S likes programming, USACO has a free online programming curriculum (and competitions) that emphasize algorithmic programming and uses a LOT of math. (none of that forced code here!) In fact, S went to HCSSiM initially to improve his math for USACO programming and fell in love with the math, too.</p>
<p>I agree with Marite. I can’t imagine that a kid who is getting an A in BC calc - even if it’s more work than math was in the earlier years - needs to repeat it. If he’s already being forced to review material with an IB course, I’d imagine he’d be chomping at the bit to have a math course where he’s actually learning something. It would have driven my kid crazy. He took MV calculus after BC calc in high school, but as it turns out as a computer science major Discrete Math was more useful. (Though he’s back to doing some sort of calculus this year as a junior in college.)</p>
<p>My inclination would be to continue on in math unless there is some science course he’s dying to take.</p>
<p>S1 would suggest that Lin Alg and Discrete are very useful courses to take and don’t necessarily require MV/DiffEq as a pre-requisite. They are on a different path than Calc-based coursework and can be a lot of fun. If your S is thinking about eng or CS, Lin Alg is generally required for both of those majors, and Discrete for CS.</p>
<p>Remember that your S cannot take IB HL exams until senior year (and must do those in-class, not self-study), and that the competing demands of EE/TOK papers, IAs, college apps, ECs, etc. may limit what he is able to take at a college senior year.</p>
<p>Note that he doesn’t HAVE to take college math classes to take more math.</p>
<p>If the school would accept it, he could take classes at Art of Problem Solving, eIMACS, or AwesomeMath.</p>
<p>Or, he could alternate a semester of college math with a semester of one of the other options (I think AwesomeMath is a year option only.)</p>
<p>We’ve done some of all the options, I think. :-)</p>
<p>For my daughter, local college classes didn’t work out well because of transportation and scheduling issues. She’s taking multi-variable online. Let me know if you want a list of places that offer it online.</p>
<p>My daughter told me yesterday that the MathCamp entrance quiz for this year has been posted. She went last summer and enjoyed it so much that she’s headed back this summer.</p>
<p>I’d suggest retaking Calc II if that’s his first university course. There will probably be some adjustments to make in the university setting and having an easy first class allows the student to work through the differences without a lot of course pressure.</p>
<p>The usual other math courses are Calc III, Linear Algebra, Mathematical (not AP) Statistics, Differential Equations, Discrete Math (I think that a two-semester sequence is the better way to go but some universities do it all in one). After that he could take junior-level electives.</p>
<p>We used university and community college courses, and UIUC’s NetMath program. The NetMath program uses Mathematica courseware so the student has to learn Mathematica which is an interactive math programming environment. Suffolk University in Boston also does the same program but they provide more support and it costs a lot more.</p>
<p>BCEagle:</p>
<p>Why do you suggest he retake CalcII? If he is getting As, he probably is doing just fine. As a 9th grader, my S felt far less pressured than the actual college students in his MVCalc class (and subsequent college classes) and he enjoyed the faster pace far more than the snail pace (his perspective) at which high school classes proceeded.</p>
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<p>Drugs, alcohol, women, chatting before class, professors not holding your hand, etc.</p>
<p>Grading varies widely from school to school and we do have students that did well on their AP courses but struggled with Calc III. The math question is common on the engineering and college life forums. A wise professor said take Calc II; there will be less pressure and it will help your GPA.</p>
<p>The kid will be in 10th grade! He’s not going to get sidetracked by drugs, alcohol, and women at his one college math class! (A few years ago, he would have been lucky to meet a woman in a post-Calculus college math class, but I don’t think that’s true anymore.)</p>
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<p>These issues don’t come up in a math class (maybe math at your school is especially fun?). I think the OP is talking about her son taking college classes as a high school sophomore. I assume he would be a commuter student, not staying in a dorm.</p>
<p>Maybe a college student who has taken AP Calc as a senior should retake as a freshman. My guess is the OP’s son is looking for more challenge and is going to be one of the A or A+ students in the class. Don’t retake is my vote.</p>
<p>Oh, come on. Drugs, wine, women/men? Not in class, surely?<br>
As if flirting does not happen in high school (far more than in college, in my experience). S used to rush out of his college classes back to his high school or back home depending on the time of day. Anyway, no college woman would have tried to hit on a 14-year old boy; none did. Now, if only there were women in his math classes…</p>
<p>Prof not holding your hand? I can only go by S’s experience, and the experience of the dozens of students from his school who take college classes every year: it’s not a problem.</p>
<p>Sidetracked? Perhaps not? But offered? It’s a possibility. We have two kids that started taking college courses at 15 and I’m just calling them as I see them.</p>
<p>Another parent told me of a 12-year-old taking courses at a community college. She would wait for her mother to pick her up a the cafeteria. At one point, a guy started coming over to talk to her and she didn’t know what to do so he just kept talking. He didn’t know that she was 12.</p>
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<p>Before class, after class, sometimes during class.</p>
<p>You can go back and see my posts dealing with the stalker and my daughter. He would go into her class just before the class ended to talk to her. The teacher noticed it and walked her out. I was pretty close to having her chat with campus security. Son had to deal with offers of alcohol before one of his classes. He had offers of women too but that was after matriculation.</p>
<p>Well, I can tell you my college Calc 2 class was less work and was easier than my BC class (infact, it was a lot easier, and not just because I was redoing some of the same things), though that’s not necessarily true of all BC classes. If kids take AB before BC and BC is an all year class at his school it may be slower/easier than mine was though, as we went from pre-calc to BC, which covered the whole curriculum of BC in 1 year. </p>
<p>Though I can tell you, while my college Calc 2 class was easier than my BC class, it was very different. The way things were done were completely different from my BC class. So it may be a good idea to take it, to see that different approach. </p>
<p>I don’t know if this is you deciding for him type of thing, or if you’re looking for suggestions to help advise him, but I think if he’s gotten this advanced, he really should be deciding on his own what he wants to do next. </p>
<p>And somehow I feel that 20 year old girls don’t usually try to hook-up with 15 year olds, just an inkling. I’m also guessing that 15 year olds taking college classes are generally not party animals.</p>
<p>College campuses during the day are probably safer than the average suburban mall.</p>
<p>Your children’s experience shows that problems can occur. But they can occur anywhere, not just college. Our high school has a daycare center; there are enough high school girls who are unmarried mothers (some as young as 15) to make it worthwhile. One of S’s schoolmates from k-8 was gunned down by three guys on account of a drug deal gone bad. He was 19 and had a 2 year-old child (but was not married to the child’s mother).</p>
<p>High school proms are more likely to be alcohol-fueled than college classes. And really, what awful things can happen during a college class? As for before and after… this can happen any time a child has to wait to be picked up. It has little to do with college as such.</p>