<p>“Your children’s experience shows that problems can occur. But they can occur anywhere, not just college. Our high school has a daycare center; there are enough high school girls who are unmarried mothers (some as young as 15) to make it worthwhile. One of S’s schoolmates from k-8 was gunned down by three guys on account of a drug deal gone bad. He was 19 and had a 2 year-old child (but was not married to the child’s mother).”</p>
<p>Yes. The problems may be more or less serious between the two environments. You may be going into a college with problems from a high-school without problems.</p>
<p>I spoke to the Registrar about dual-enrollment when it was funded by the state. Local students could take courses at the university at no cost except for books. She said that there were widespread problems with the program as the students had a lot more freedom than they did in school and they were essentially unsupervised. Drugs and alcohol were problems as the high-school kids could get them on the college campus. Perhaps they can just as well get them on high-school campuses today.</p>
<p>I think that dual-enrollment is a wonderful opportunity but stuff can happen. I’m also a firm believer in starting something very difficult with something very easy as success builds upon success.</p>
<p>ghetto? It is within a stone’s throw of the #1 university in the world (hint: it starts with an H). I don’t know how many girls the day care center serves. My (French) niece was horrified at the number of pregnant girls there were in the school.</p>
<p>BCEagle: Yes, stuff can happen. You suggested that the student repeat Calc1. Where would that be, exactly? Should a 14 or 15 year old who has finished BC Calc wait another 3-4 years to continue math because s/he is not yet in college where, presumably, no danger lurks? </p>
<p>You build on your experience and suggest taking it easy. I build on mine and suggest it can lead to disaster–as it nearly did with my S–which is how he ended taking college classes at 14. The OP gets to choose.</p>
<p>I said take Calc II. Then you asked why take calc II? Now you’re telling me that I said repeat Calc I.</p>
<p>Where did I say wait another three or four years? That’s the mother of all strawman arguments. I suggested taking calc 2, 3, discrete math, linear algebra, mathematical statistics and differential equations.</p>
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<p>I’d suggest you reread the thread. You seem pretty confused over what I wrote.</p>
<p>Wow. My reaction is “parent has a case of trailhead fever.” It is NOT necessary to gallop through math classes as fast as the hurdles can be erected and scaled. Trust me, in twenty years no one will be impressed – but they will be impressed if the young student turns into a well rounded, highly socialized and very happy man. </p>
<p>Our DS also thundered ahead in math. We supported this but also declined to have him add college time on top of IB requirements. It was a great choice. IB requires a lot. Having him on just the one campus let him make friends and explore other activities, including C team soccer and tennis and disc golfing. </p>
<p>What makes the kid happy? All this hard work in math is super. It gives him some space to explore other aspects of living. If he is burning with desire to get into a college level class, that’s one thing – but if it’s the parent that’s packing the bags to move to the next level, please reconsider. </p>
<p>I speak from my own experience as well. I was advanced in grade school. There was a horrible year where my older classmates were buying bras and trying out makeup while I was secretly playing with my Barbies. Later, I attended college being one of the youngest freshmen there. I could handle the coursework but often felt awkward and clueless – and never felt “cool”. </p>
<p>I hope OP will take time to talk over other options with DS. The talent of math skills should be a blessing that is added to life – not a staggering white elephant that has to be fed while beggaring the rest of teen development and experiences (IMHO).
Good luck!</p>
<p>At the very least, the OP’s son may want to check the syllabus for Calc II and Calc III at the local college. I know that AP Calc BC isn’t enough to start Calc III at our local community college. There’s another section of work that needs to be covered. They usually just set the kids up with MyMathLab and let them learn it before Calc III. However, the college usually knows this stuff. :-)</p>
<p>"I speak from my own experience as well. I was advanced in grade school. There was a horrible year where my older classmates were buying bras and trying out makeup while I was secretly playing with my Barbies. Later, I attended college being one of the youngest freshmen there. I could handle the coursework but often felt awkward and clueless – and never felt “cool”. "</p>
<p>I have a hard time understanding this as an argument against learning math. Probably everyone has a bad year or two during adolescence. So what? One of the things the kid might learn by spanning campuses is that not everything need revolve around the insular world of high school. </p>
<p>I didn’t get the feeling the OP was rushing her son or trying to impress - the 1st post included the phrase “why rush”?</p>
<p>It’s just a caution to step back and look at the whole picture. Math (or any class) on another campus is a time commitment. It is also a lifestyle change. </p>
<p>We, as parents, delight in our children. We love it when they soar. That’s wonderful and how it should be. But we have to be aware that our love of their soaring can come at a cost – time, money, social skills, hobbies, sanity. Whether it is math, gymnastics, tennis, modeling, acting – whatever – there is a cost to forging ahead at a rapid pace. That should be part of the awareness.</p>
<p>There is also a cost to NOT forging ahead at the pace a child wishes to set.</p>
<p>If my S wasn’t challenged at school, he came home and taught himself. Learning was like breathing to him. When he was seven and in third grade, he called it “feeding his brain.” An accelerated curriculum in the classroom ENABLED him to get out and involved in other activities which he loved. Because he was sufficiently engaged at school, he spent less time stuffing his brain at home, and the confidence he gained from appropriate education made him more eager to try out new experiences. </p>
<p>Yes, there is a balance to be struck. But I also believe in playing to a person’s strengths – so if being really good in math and CS gives a shy, bookish kid the confidence and courage to try hanggliding or contradancing or reporting for the school newspaper, that’s fine with me.</p>
<p>That is absolutely what we found, and what S’s teachers came to realize. S had one teacher early on who refused to let him take more advanced math (it would have inconvenienced no one) “because she did not believe in tracking.” In later classes, S’s teachers paid for this unwillingness, as S was bored to the point of being disruptive. Luckily, a math teacher saw things differently and was willing to radically accelerate S (along with a few other students).
We did not push. S pulled. I do not think S suffered socially. He was invited, as an 8th grader, to join the HS science team; S loved being able to talk math at his level, not at the level of his age peers in algebra I. I don’t think that one’s social peers must be the same age. Mine aren’t.
S did have more classes than his schoolmates because the school still insisted on 7 classes; but we never ever heard him complain about the college classes or extra work. What he did complain about was the make work in his slow moving high school classes.</p>
<p>Would this be possible in my son’s case? He will have one year of BC, one year of IB math. Could we use AP Stats, Comp. Programming or AP Comp Science to fill out the other two? I know, it depends on the school.
Our state requires 3 years of math but IB requires 4.
If you do not credit college classes to your HS, how do you let colleges know during application process that you have completed some college courses? Just send the transcript?
I like the idea of not crediting the courses because then you do not have to stress about the grade you are receiving. Or maybe I worry too much about the GPA ;)</p>
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<p>Olymom - read my original post again. I am all for slowing it down But…if he does not take college classes at this point, it really means no progression in math for three years. Who can afford that? What do you suggest - that he takes no math after BC?</p>
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Great suggestion! Will have son read this thread and ask him to inguire at the U. He goes to Math Circle there and knows already a few math professors, so it should not be too difficult to find out. It has never occured to me up to this point that he can use his contacts there! Thanks again !!!</p>
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<p>I am looking for suggestions. He is asking his friends as well BUT he is 14 and at this tender age might simply not realize what it means to take a college class FOR CREDIT in the evening in addition to school and EC. How do I put it - lack of imagination is so common for teenagers? </p>
<p>Somehow I do not worry about women, drugs and alcohol. He has been associating with people much older than him since 6th grade. As for awkward becasue you are young?
Nope, do not believe it is a problem for him. Actually might be a welcome change for myself.
When he started auditing calc 1 last summer I suddenly did not have to remind him about the need to shower ;)</p>
<p>If he’s attending a MathCircle, then he really should ask the adults there what they think his best options are. If I were him, I’d try to get several opinions.</p>
<p>He can then talk to the other students who have followed those paths to see what they have to say.</p>
<p>To let colleges know what you have done, you send both transcripts. In fact, I think you have to, as the common app asks about all educational institutions you have attended. Also, on the common app, in the additional information section, in addition to a page fleshing out EC’s, you might include another page explaining why he chose all the extra courses and how they fit together educationally.</p>
<p>No math for more than a semester is definitely not good for kids who intend to major in math/science/engineering. I had a year of no math in my high school senior year, and when I continued on in college, it took me a few weeks to shake off the rust. In the process, at least in my case, I lost my strong interest in math. I don’t know what would have happened to my rust if I had gone three years without math.</p>
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<p>I have a different spin on this theme. I have a son who is advanced in math and other “logical” endeavors. I think this blessing gives him the option to free up more time to explore other things and to enjoy school and life a little more. This option goes away if he continues to max himself out in his area of blessing. I also agree with others that if the child truly enjoys an accelerated pace that meets his/her ability, then go for it. But, I do want my son to know he has other options. A blessing should never be a burden to a child.</p>
<p>As far as GPA is concerned, S’s hs converted his college course grades to P/F. But S submitted both the hs transcript and the transcript of his college courses where the grades he received were clearly listed. They were not all As, but I’m sure that adcoms took the level of difficulty into account.</p>
<p>I second the idea of discussing possibilities with the instructors in his Math Circle (I hope he enjoys it, as mine really did).</p>
<p>ETA in response to post by PaperChasePop:
Some students may find that facility in a field frees them to put more effort in different fields and become well-rounded. But others need to have “the staggering white elephant” fed in order to be happy enough to make an effort in those other fields. The unhappiness that S experienced in too-easy math classes translated into unhappiness about school more generally and outright disruptiveness. Once he was allowed to accelerate, all the behavior problems disappeared. A blessing only becomes a burden if it imposed on the child by parents, not something the child asks for, longs for, begs for.</p>
<p>My son is studying grad CS stuff now but he keeps up his math skills by tutoring other students. I tutored in the math resource center when I was in high-school and college and found it quite enjoyable.</p>
<p>BCEagle, is your S a grad student, UG or still in HS? S1 has been able to take grad CS courses as an UG and also TAs a Calc course. Good stuff.</p>
<p>Marite – we had a similar experience with S1. Third grade teacher refused to give him fourth grade work. Next year – different school, special program – he was in 7th grade math with six other age mates. he teachers tested everyone to determine placement, no intervention necessary on our part. Funny how the social issues started improving at that point!</p>
<p>He’s an undergrad Junior. He will need five credits to graduate after his junior year so we’ve discussed him taking more grad courses or taking additional undergrad courses in other disciplines. I would like him to TA but the school only allows grad students to TA. He’s finding that grad courses are harder but they don’t have the grueling number of labs that you get in undergrad courses. He probably would have been able to graduate in three years if the courses required to graduate were available. Many of the project sequences are only offered every other year and you have to be in the right place with the right prereqs to graduate on time. It seems to me that graduating on-time can be tricky if a student makes a few wrong choices on when to take certain classes.</p>
<p>All of this assumes that your kid wants to major in either hard science, Engineering or math. However, I would suggest that he take a course in statistics. Why? Statistics is a very applied course whose knowledge is indispensable to many fields including many graduate programs. In addition, maybe your son will like it enough to want to major in either accounting or actuarial work,both of which pay well.</p>
<p>I agree, BCEagle91, that “you have to be in the right place with the right prereqs to graduate on time.” I would not be surprised if it doesn’t get worse with the belt-tightening many schools are doing.</p>
<p>More colleges are publishing how frequently certain courses are offered, but you have to be aware of the problem to know to go look for the information. </p>
<p>I remember being shocked when I went to college in the difference between the number of courses listed in the catalog and the number actually offered any semester.</p>
But…if he does not take college classes at this point, it really means no progression in math for three years. Who can afford that? What do you suggest - that he takes no math after BC?</p>