College Culture & Swarthmore

<p>I’m a current 'Ford but I’ve spent a lot of time at Swat in the past few years (I’ve taken a few classes there, am dating a Swatty, and have a bunch of friends there from high school). If you asked me to generalize, I’d say students at Swat are far more outspoken about their radicalism. Perhaps this is why Swat feels “gayer” to some people. My current boyfriend (a Swatty) is often frustrated by the rigid emphasis on political correctness. That said, there is more political activism at Swat (though it also exists at Haverford). Haverford, by comparison, feels a bit more socially conservative. Nevertheless, as a queer student, I’ve felt nothing but love, support, and acceptance from my peers. At a small school, it can be a bit difficult to find someone to date (especially when you end up befriending a large portion of the queer community), but I don’t think our problem is any worse than any other college of our size. Queer women also have a lot of dating opportunities at Bryn Mawr.</p>

<p>Beyond issues of sexual orientation and radical politics, I think the classroom environment at Swat is far more competitive (and, at worse, combative). I chose Haverford over Swarthmore because, as a naturally competitive person, I didn’t want to be in an environment that encouraged me to compete against my peers. I don’t know what grades my friends get and I’ve learned to refocus my competitive spirit on improving against my own record. Last semester I took a class at Haverford that included three Swatties (three Mawtyrs and two 'Fords). At the end of the class, my professor asked us to reflect on the classroom experience and all three Swatties said they were surprised by the collaborative nature of discussion. Rather than jumping down someone’s throat to correct them, they said, our discussion was built around achieving a higher level of mutual comprehension and understanding. Students at both schools, on average, are equally bright and classroom conversations are dynamic, but I think there is more of a selflessness in conversations that take place in Haverford classrooms. I sort of feel like students are less concerned with proving their intelligence. For students a bit shyer about speaking up in class, I suspect Haverford is a far better fit, but otherwise, I think smart students would do well at either school. At both schools you will be asked to work hard (harder than at the Ivies, based on what my friends at Brown, Yale, Harvard, and Penn have told me) and the students that do best and choose to come to Swat or Haverford tend to genuinely love what they’re studying. A large portion of the student body are budding intellectuals (people who want to continue their academic study in some way) who see their studies as a joy rather than a means to an end. I came here because I wanted to challenge myself but I wanted to be supported in that goal. My peers and professors share in my successes and comfort and help me right myself when I struggle. As another poster has said, students here are human (and 18-22, despite our aspirations), but Haverford best approximates my ideal of an intellectual community. </p>

<p>Naturally, these are sweeping statements and you will find highly competitive students at both schools and collaborative discussions at both schools. That said, I chose Haverford for a reason and it more closely models a community I want to be a part of. Then again, I would have also been happy and flourished at Swat. Students fortunate enough to get into both schools cannot make a wrong decision.</p>

<p>We visited both Haverford & Swat. with my daughter.The apartments @ Haverford were next to visitor parking. They looked like section 8 housing but turns out they were dorms. It was a major turnoff for us.</p>

<p>rebel, did you get to go inside the dorms at either school? If so, what were they like?</p>

<p>^ It was Xmas break so we were only able to walk both campuses. We couldn’t go inside Haverford dorm but we could look into the windows etc. The apartments were nasty.</p>

<p>pkdof: I’m a a high school senior who applied to both of these schools and have done overnights at each. The Swat dorms are probably, as a whole, nicer than that 'Ford dorms and seem to have been renovated more recently. Each school has a set of new dorms, both of which are nice. It really varies at both schools, though. an important note: For underclassmen, Swarthmore’s dorms are often doubles, while Haverford’s are generally singles.</p>

<p>EDIT: @rebel - I think its important to note, 'Ford students don’t seem to complain too much about the apartments (or the dorms for that matter). Form what I heard, students really like the apartments despite their appearances.</p>

<p>We did a loop of Penn, Haverford,Swat. Daughter loved the look and feel of Swat. but Haverford apartments skeeved her out. I was suprised and disappointed to see how run down the apartments were at a school with the prestige and endowment of Haverford. .She crossed it off her list. Her top choices are Williams,Princeton,Swarthmore, Penn et al. Son is done, now a year of work for her applications.</p>

<p>I brought my son to Penn to tour recently. Penn has by far the worst housing and dining for students around. The towers are ugly concrete slabs and are claustrophobic. So many students live off campus in run down West Philly houses. Dining is inconvenient. I would say that Penn has inadequate housing and dining. By contrast, the dining and living experience at Haverford looks way superior. Convenient dining. Dorms with almost all singles. Two brand new dorms. Everyone is on campus in a wonderful community atmosphere. Don’t like the apartments? That should be the biggest issue. And a visit into Philly is an easy train ride away.</p>

<p>Rebel11- I’ve heard that the kids really like the apartments even though they look awful from the outside. The other dorms are typical dorms, but many kids get singles, which is nice and unusual. The two new dorms are very nice and all singles. I hated the dorm we saw at Swat with my S, and it caused me to second-guess that college, so I understand your D’s hesitation.</p>

<p>However, if your D’s only complaint about Haverford is the look of the aparments, and she likes the look and feel of Swat, then she’s missing a huge opportunity because Haverford is very similar to Swat, but it’s more of a tight-knit, caring community and less competitive. They live according to a lot of the Quaker values there - openness, honesty, acceptance, etc. It’s probably the opposite of Princeton. </p>

<p>Did you actually do a tour of the campus? The school is so much more than one dorm that your D may not even end up living in. I don’t think you can get the sense of the college unless you take a tour and listen to how the students live there. It’s quite different than any other college I’ve ever seen.</p>

<p>megan, We will be in the area often and I think you’re right that we need to give Haverford another look. It was really cold and empty when we went. She will EA to Princeton and have another 10 or so ready to go if she doesn’t get in. We will fine tune the list with only meets full need schools + Rutgers(in state).
Florida, I’m not sure where you looked but to us Penn dorms(The Quad) etc are great.Your dining critique doesn’t come close to the experience of the many kidds I know who are there now. They love Penn.</p>

<p>rebel11 - if you can, go in the spring or summer. Haverford is an arboreturm, and it’s beautiful when the trees and flowers are in full bloom. Also check out Bryn Mawr because the kids go back and forth between the colleges quite often.</p>

<p>megan, We will be going Spring/summer.Going to visit Williams also,we are told it’s beautiful but isolated. Thx</p>

<p>rebel11, something to keep in mind when visiting any of these schools (I went to Penn and live near the TriCo schools): the dorm you see on tour may be nothing like the one your child ends up in. There’s a vast difference between the Quad and Hill House, for example, at Penn. Some kids get to choose, some end up with the luck of the draw, so there aren’t always guarantees.</p>

<p>I happened to like Hill House in general (although the maintenance – or lack thereof – of the bathrooms back in the day was disgraceful, especially for the exorbitant fees they were charging). Just visited Swarthmore with my son (our first college visit in this daunting process), and the dorm we saw was okay. Older, but clean and the bathrooms were decent (although I didn’t check the plumbing, even though I wanted to!).</p>

<p>When I think of the posh room my sister had at Penn State UP years ago (I understand things there have gotten tight too), I always marvel at how there sometimes appears to be an inverse relationship between the prestige/expense of the school and the quality of the dorms. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but older/more basic is sometimes a value judgment schools make.</p>

<p>^ I think my DD reaction was more influenced by the fact Haverford is not near top of her list.We are very familiar w/Penn as I know numerous grads and my son has a few friends there now.He’ll almost certainly stay in Quad Frosh year and contemplate St. A’s if we let him Soph year.</p>

<p>rebel1,</p>

<p>As was posted earlier, don’t assume that the dorm you might see on an official tour is something widely available to students. The quad at Penn has its charm, but a very limited number of students live there. Not even all freshmen get a spot. And the high rise towers are really the bulk of what is available to upperclassmen. Those buildings are the least ideal living situation of any school we have seen. Think running late to class, on the 17th floor waiting for the elevator…</p>

<p>I know how hard it is to make decisions on schools, but judging a school based upon whether you like the outside of campus apartments isn’t a great way to go. If the outside of the Haverford apartments was the beautiful stone that most of the Haverford buildings are made of, would that keep the school on the list?</p>

<p>From what I hear from kids these days, the USNWR rankings and acceptance rates are looked at as some real indication of college quality. It’s a scary cycle. Colleges focus on what it takes to move up the rankings and lower their acceptance rates (tell everyone to apply because their admissions are “wholistic” and grades and SATs aren’t everything–a joke for the hookless good students), their rankings move up, kids think those are the better schools for them, more kids apply to them, which raises the perceived quality of the school, and on.</p>

<p>^ We are well aware that you won’t know what dorm your going to get. As for my son we’re pretty confident he will be a Ben Franklin Scholar which means he’ll dorm in Riepe(Quad). As for my DD she is a top student who will probably get into one of her top choices making Haverford a safety of sorts if she even applies…</p>

<p>My S was a top student too but didn’t fair so well at admissions to the top schools. :frowning: They’re extremely hard to get into, so I wish her luck. </p>

<p>Haverford is not really a safety because it’s also difficult to get into and one of the top liberal arts colleges, so I assume you meant it was just lower on her list of choices. A safety would be a college you’re pretty likely to get into. At a 23% admission rate, Haverford isn’t one of those places.</p>

<p>It’s funny - Haverford wasn’t high on my S’s list either at first, but now he’s so happy he’s there!</p>

<p>Thx Megan, My D will be a NMSF as long as 223 PSAT is good enough.She also is #1 of 450 in her class with a 2190 SAT to date. She’ll take SAT again and most likely be accepted into NJ Gov’s school this summer. We think Haverford et al are at least strong matches and that the Ivies and Williams will be her reaches. We’ll find out come next fall.</p>

<p>Best of luck to your daughter rebel11. I will echo megan12’s comments that the ivies are extremely tough to get into, even for the top students. A 2190 would likely make the ivies a reach for her unless she is a recruited athlete, an underrepresented minority, or a legacy with a history of good-sized donations. But there are so many excellent schools, all of which wil have much more than your daughter could ever take avantage of.</p>

<p>Thx Florida, We’re real familiar with the top school crapshoot. My son was accepted ED to Penn in Dec… We expect my D’s stats will exceed his. Her 2190 is first try Oct of Jr. year,and with her EC’s etc makes her viable for any school in the country.She’ll apply to enough schools to ensure we have solid choices.</p>

<p>Congrats to your son and good luck to your daughter! </p>

<p>As a Penn alum, I feel that I got a good education. But it isn’t for everyone. It’s a large place where students can feel anonymous and a bit lost, and can underachieve as a result. I have been really impressed with Haverford’s community feel and close attention to each student.</p>