College Culture & Swarthmore

Colleges and Universities A-Z Haverford College
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<p>Swarthmore and Haverford are in a dead heat for my #1 spot (not that I've applied yet). I'm a Senior and I've been in love with everything Haverford most of the last two years: the location, the atmosphere, black squirrels and the honor code and trust and the whole Quaker thing... of course this is all based on college reviews, CC, and their viewbook. I accidentally discovered Haverford, too, and I felt so so so incredibly lucky to have found THE school for me so early on--everything matched/clicked/whatever...until I toured Swarthmore. Prestige and ranking aside, the viewbooks make the schools look so similar I can't stand it. Even both schools' tour guides mentioned that "our dining hall is a little like a ski lodge." Gah!!!!</p>

<p>I love that. I love them both. I loved them both so much I decided against committing to ED. But now I'm re-falling for Haverford and my heart's telling me ED there would have been worth it. So my Q is what makes Haverford and Swarthmore's self-proclaimed atmospheres of community and trust different from each other? It's obviously hard to compare and contrast if you only have experience at one, but any insider info on either school's dynamics, social life, overall approach of the students will be really helpful. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>I actually faced the same problem in my college search, except kind of the opposite (I was set on Swat and then fell for HC). I will try to be as fair as possible, but obviously have a bit of a bias, so keep that in mind. I am currently a Sophomore at Haverford and could not be happier.</p>

<p>First, I will say that as far as the Honor Code goes, it isn’t perfect and people do make mistakes and (I think most students feel the same way) the social honor code isn’t as pervasive as most students would like. I don’t mean to say that people are horrible to each other (one of my friends who applied ED, was denied and ended up transferring in after a few years at an equally selective NESCAC school, said that it is amazing to him how genuinely nice everyone here is), but just that there are situations in which the infrastructure of the social honor code would have been conducive to facilitating a dialogue and students, being human, act like humans. There are lots of cases, however, in which the social honor code is employed and is successful. I think the best endorsement of the honor code is that people use, “Haverfordian” and “good person” interchangeably.</p>

<p>Cheating does happen, though I imagine at about the same rate as or lower than that at other schools. There is really a culture on campus that does not condone that sort of action. The difference is that at Haverford, when cheating happens, students cheat on take home exams and, often, report themselves to honor council. Honor Council is really special because, instead of going to a dean or other administrator, an infraction of academic integrity goes to a panel of students who adjudicate a trial, and then put together an “abstract” which, with pseudonyms in the place of pronouns, is released to the community so that everyone can learn from others’ mistakes. Abstract discussions are held by members of the honor council (and jury members who are chosen for each trial) after abstracts are released.</p>

<p>As far as social life goes, Swarthmore has frats and will soon have a sorority. They do not seem particularly pervasive or exclusionary, but are still present on campus. Both have a relatively weak drinking culture with only a portion of students choosing to imbibe on a given weekend. At Haverford, no one has fake IDs because all parties are on campus and, with (to my knowledge) the only student written alcohol policy in the country, crackdowns on student drinking tends to focus on unsafe habits.</p>

<p>I cannot speak fully for Swat (someone feel free to correct me), but Haverford has very little barriers between sophomores, juniors, freshmen and seniors. Most of my friends are not within my class year and I would not consider myself to be in the minority. Part of this is down to the size of Haverford. But I also think that the amazing customs program feeds into this. The customs program is like orientation but lasts all year long and is way better. At Haverford, there are “freshman halls,” but the freshmen are anything but isolated. For each hall of 8-18(ish) freshmen, there are 8 upperclassmen who apply for very difficult to obtain positions (50%-20% acceptance depending on the position and year) as customs team members. Because of this, people naturally end up branching out to other classes. Many of my friends who do not share a class year with me were either members of my customs team or friends of customs team members. A common thing for people to say to friends is “I need to meet your freshmen.” There is no stigma attached to being a freshman; everyone just wants to be friends (that sounds corny, but its actually true). At Swat, my one experience with this was at a Tri-Co event being held on the Swat Campus in the late spring of last year, seniors were yelling “2012” proudly. This would never happen at Haverford. People just don’t have much class year pride. It’s just Haverford pride.</p>

<p>As far as social life goes, I find that Haverford students are more laid back and Swatties are more intense (you’ll here this a lot).</p>

<p>Another spot that Haverford excels is in transparency and student voice with the administration. Some students complain that students don’t literally run the school, but for the most part, the amount of power we are given is amazing. Every week, there are more committees to be filled with students – from dorm planning committee to college honors committee. Students council (elected by students) fills these spots. Sometimes the committees are a bit onerous (this has happened to me: [Quaker</a> Problems - im on a committee about committees](<a href=“quickmeme: the funniest page on the internet”>I'm on a committee about committees - Quaker Problems - quickmeme)), but they are really fun and empowering (fun fact: the painting in that meme is in our special collections, which is probably the best special collections of any liberal arts college - if you want more info on the ridiculously vast number of rare books that we have, go here: [Haverford</a> College: Library : Special Collections : Collections : Rare Books and Manuscripts](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/library/special/collections/rare_books_and_manuscripts/index.php]Haverford”>http://www.haverford.edu/library/special/collections/rare_books_and_manuscripts/index.php)). This really goes back to Quaker values and the importance of governance by consensus. As such, there is also plenary every year where students vote on “resolutions” (everything from changes to the honor code to composting).</p>

<p>I hope this helps. Any specific questions, feel free to ask…</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot. It’s really helpful to hear things aren’t 100% perfect (which kinda makes me like it more). The abstract thing is really interesting. I haven’t heard anything about it from Admissions, probably because it would admit that cheating goes on. It sounds like a real testament to the way Haverford works, though. More positive than negative.</p>

<p>Something that really caught my eye at Haverford was the Growth & Structure of Cities department offered at bryn mawr. From what I’ve read, it’s really easy to take classes at the other school, but what about majoring? Do you have any friends who have done this?</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback…I’m thinking this is the school for me.</p>

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<p>Hey lookin4the1, I’m in a similar situation to you; I’m applying to both Haverford and Swat as well and am interested in the cities program too! It’s my understanding (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) that you can major in any of the BMC departments just like a Haverford Department; there can be some logistical problems. It’s not super common, but does occur - you only need to take like a third of you classes at Haverford, I think. </p>

<p>And, Squirrel2015, thanks for posting the detailed description - everything I’m reading kinda makes me wish I’d applied ED!</p>

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<p>I’m a parent of a Haverfordian, so I’m informed, but not as much as a student. I believe that you can major in any Bryn Mawr subjects, but you must get permission from a Haverford advisor in order to do that. You would have to follow the Haverford guidelines for graduation, so they would be in charge of your courses and record, not Bryn Mawr. </p>

<p>Although you would have to set up a schedule that works for you and gives you the ability to travel back and forth to each campus, there are buses that run pretty regularly. The schools run on similar schedules, making it logistically easier.</p>

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<p>I’m a parent of a student who spent a lot of time exploring both Haverford and Swarthmore. Our 'ford had overnight visits and sat in on classes at both schools before committing to Haverford.</p>

<p>The schools are similar, but our student found the Haverford students more welcoming and community-oriented and the Swat students whom our prospect met seemed more interested in their own personal pursuits. This is a generalization and surely Swat offers a better sense of community then a large school, but Haverford probably has the edge on community. Our prospective student said that Swat ‘seemed more concerned about being elite’ than Haverford did. </p>

<p>Regarding the Honor Code. I was intrigued to learn that some (all?) students had no schedule for finals since they take their exams on their own schedule during finals week. I don’t know if this is true for every class, but it is true for the classes our 'ford student has.</p>

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<p>BMC alum from ages ago – I did most of my academic work at Hford, so I am chiming in with a few comments about the classes and major at BMC. I understand from looking at Hford for my son that policies have not changed significantly since I was a student, so hopefully this is still be useful.</p>

<p>Students can major and take classes at either school, though do have to meet distribution and graduation requirements for their own institution. So, a Hford student can major at BMC and would meet the BMC requirements for its own major. However, that student would still need to meet any Hford distribution requirements. Although an advisor’s approval may be required to cross-register, it is quite common so not a stumbling block. Classes are scheduled on each campus to allow for the greatest academic cooperation; physically, the campuses are 1 mile apart (we used to walk it all the time in decent weather) though there is a campus bus which runs throughout the day between campuses. </p>

<p>This structure has allowed the two schools to develop their own strengths in complementary ways – BMC historically has had strong Russian program, classical archaeology, and dance. Hford’s painting was better I think, that BMC, and we were all philosophy groupies at Hford. Students used the strengths on each campus to focus on their own interests. </p>

<p>The Quaker influence at Hford was felt in the spirit of tolerance and mutual respect. Of course, from the student’s perspective, I cannot say enough good things about the opportunity for self-scheduled exams. The student selects when, out of a range of exam slots, they take each exam. So, no nightmares of back-to-back killer exams. The best invention for the sanity of college students, ever. </p>

<p>Again, this is older perspective, so do check with administration about majors etc. But Hford is an incredible place. Swat is a great school too, but a very different feel.</p>

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<p>Haverford and Bryn Mawr are very near one another and there is regular bus service between the two as mentioned already. Our S, like a number of others, takes classes at both. His preferred mode of transportation is a bike which is also very common.</p>

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<p>Hey, sorry it took me so long to reply. I’ve been busy with Thanksgiving and schoolwork. </p>

<p>I’m a Cities Major! I absolutely LOVE it and I am super psyched that there are two prospective cities majors. I am actually taking all of my classes at Bryn Mawr this semester and it could not be easier. The bus that circulates between the campuses runs every half hour or so (sometimes more often than that) and the ride is only about five minutes. I have a friend in one of my cities classes from Swarthmore. Taking classes at Bryn Mawr is a bit more challenging: he ends up blocking out most of his day for a 1.5 hour class because of the bus schedule. But they’ve started a pretty great cities club over there (hopefully soon to be tri-co) and have a limited selection of urban related courses to be found in the economics, history and art history departments. </p>

<p>As far as the Cities department at Bryn Mawr goes, I am super passionate about Cities and, especially among the Fords who major in Cities, people are super excited by the material and talk about their class material with an enthusiasm that is EVEN greater than other majors (I think this is because choosing to major at Bryn Mawr is a more conscious choice and thus weeds out those who might only be somewhat interested). Any time I mention that I am a cities major to one of my friends, they say things like, “everyone who does that seems to REALLY love it.” And we do. I spend way too much time reading cities blogs and news-sources. (side note, if you think you might want to be a cities major, start reading Atlantic Cities - <a href=“http://www.theatlanticcities.com/[/url]”>http://www.theatlanticcities.com/&lt;/a&gt; - it’s one of the most prolific cities blogs/news sources out there; I’m getting off topic, but I’ve got plenty more to suggest if you want).</p>

<p>As far as the actual classes go, I didn’t realize that I wanted to major in Cities until the beginning of my Sophomore year (there were so many great Haverford classes, I had no reason to look), but quickly fell in love. The intro classes are a bit dull and not everyone’s cup of tea (one is “Urban Culture and Society” and focuses on the sociology of cities and the other is “Form of the City” which is the history of planning and architecture), but they equip students with the vocabulary and broad range of important urban thinkers (from WEB DuBois to Richard Florida to Daniel Burnham to Jane Jacobs) to be able to cogently discuss more high level material. The major requires a lot of classes compared to others (15 total as apposed to most majors with 8-11) because it is interdisciplinary, and the classes tend to put a strong emphasis on collaboration and research. Most important, in my opinion, is that this is one of the few real urban studies programs available at any liberal arts college. That means that the professors are excellent: there is really very little competition for professors who want to be teaching from peer institutions and thus we get to work with the cream of the crop.</p>

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<p>I have a very serious & non-judgmental question: Isn’t Swarthmore a predominately gay culture ? Before the “holier than thou” self-rightous folks respond, this was detailed in a couple editions of a well respected conservative college guide publication carried by very liberal Borders & by B&N. The reason that I point this out is that there should be little confusion about fit between the two colleges.</p>

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<p>Axelrod, have you been to either of these two colleges? My daughter has done overnights at both. I would not recommend judging fit based on a conservative college guide. Bookstores are not liberal, they exist to sell books.</p>

<p>To the OP - I would spend more time on campus if you can. My D was able to reach a decision on which she prefers based on overnight and class visits. There are a lot of similarities. Haverford is a bit smaller, but the ability to take classes at Bryn Mawr expands it. My D was disappointed to sit at lunch at Haverford and hear students gossiping negatively about other students at a nearby table, despite the big emphasis on honor code and respect. Swarthmore students struck her as more stressed.</p>

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<p>Mama Bear, as far as gossiping goes, I wouldn’t judge an entire school on the actions of a few students. That being said, students at HC are human (as they are anywhere else), but I tend to think that interactions happen with more respect than without the code. In many situations, I have said things about friends behind their backs that could be misconstrued as gossip; just yesterday I was complaining because one of my suite mates is way too loud. She is also one of my best friends. At the same time I can’t recall gossiping about people with whom I am not close (or hearing that sort of talk more than a few times in all my time here). Just my experience with gossip. That being said, the honor code leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. And I think that people aren’t always as respectful as they hope to be. It’s an amazing institution that I would not give up for the world, but it is not perfect and, I think that those who hope for utopia at Haverford are disappointed.</p>

<p>Axelrod, as far as queer culture at Haverford or Swarthmore goes, there is a subset of the community who identify as such. Swat has an annual symposium on queer studies. But to say that either of these schools is essentially a “gay school” would be wrong. The size alone means that there is a relatively limited number of students who identify as queer at either school. It’s a trade-off in the size. Personally (as a queer student) I find the dating scene quite limited, though I have been able to become very close with a group of queer students here at Haverford. I’ve heard students at both Swat and Haverford complain about the lack of queer students but, according to a recent Gallup poll, only around 3.5% of the entire country identifies as queer. I think the limited size of the queer groups on both campuses means that students are forced to become a member of a community at large, not a member of an affinity group. This is a plus in my opinion, though not everyone’s cup of tea. My ex is black and queer and mentioned that, when he arrived at Haverford, he was one of the only black and gay students on campus and that dealing with those two identities was difficult for him. He actually considered transferring to some larger schools, but eventually decided to stay. In his opinion, becoming a part of the HC community was more important than finding others going through the same thing as him.</p>

<p>As far as conservative vs. liberal goes, I think Swat is probably not the place for anyone with a view that is anything right of neoliberal. I’ve heard complaints from a few former students at Swat who were right leaning and had a hard time getting funding from the school for events, respectful dialogue going etc. Obviously, my experiences are limited. Haverford definitely leans left, but we have a pretty good mix of viewpoints on campus. The way I see it is that the campus as a whole is probably 85-90% liberal, but those who are extremely politically active and involved, its probably closer to a fifty-fifty split. We have a club here at Haverford that I have been to a few times called Student Political Network at which students discuss politics with an amazing amount of respect. One of my friends at Haverford is rather outspokenly republican, is a pretty well-known conservative blogger actually, and has had only a few situations in which discussions have been anything but respectful. The way he put it to me one time is that, of the schools to which he had been accepted (including Duke and Vandy), he could have been surrounded by conservatives. He came here because he wanted to be challenged and respected. He seems very happy with his choice.</p>

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<p>As a Swarthmore alum and parent of 2 Swatty alums (but son of a Haverford alum), I’m not sure what Axelrod means about Swarthmore being a predominately gay culture. What does that mean, anyway?</p>

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<p>I’ll look on Amazon & try to find the well respected, but very conservative, book title. It detailed the culture at Swarthmore during the first two or three editions (published at two year intervals) then toned it down in the most recent editions. I recall that it detailed an annual race, among other aspects, in which the male participants ran in the nude.
Border’s was well known as a more liberal bookstore than most based on some of its edgy offerings.
Anyway, I have nothing against Swarthmore, just asking based on what I read several years ago. Regardless, Swarthmore is well known for being very gay friendly & that’s important to many applicants.</p>

<p>P.S. Choosing The Right College (An ISI Guide).</p>

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<p>I think Axelrod is refering to the “Dash for Cash” fundraiser for both the mens and womens rugby teams. Here’s the Wikipedia entry:</p>

<p>[Streaking</a> at educational institutions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Streaking - Wikipedia”>Streaking - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>The men’s and women’s rugby union teams at Swarthmore College engage in a streaking fundraiser each semester known as the “Dash for Cash”, in which the team members run naked through Parrish Hall, the main administration building. Spectators are expected to bring money, which the streakers grab from their hands as they run by.[12] The activity has been known to catch bystanders unawares, despite heavy publicity featuring the slogan, “Bring money, or you’re a pervert.”[13]</p>

<p>If you look at the Wikipedia entry under streaking at educational institutions (where the above quote comes from) you will see a long list of colleges and universities, including Dartmouth, Princeton, University of Chicago etc. Not sure why this is an indicator of a gay culture.</p>

<p>PS I think the “Dash for Cash” is a thing of the past at Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>Squirrel, she didn’t judge the entire school based on the lunch gossip, she is applying to both schools also, but after the admissions session where they really talk up the honor code, what was said was disappointing. Kids judge schools all the time based on impressions of the tour guide, etc, and it was something that stuck with her on her visit. I think the biggest drawback to her is that it has fewer students than her high school.</p>

<p>(I think Tufts has discontinued its naked quad run also.)</p>

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<p>Thanks for the feedback on cities Squirrel2015. The program sounds awesome and I’m pretty sure I’d dive right into it at Haverford (and maybe at Swarthmore too if I end up there). Glad to hear majors are really passionate about it and thanks for the blog! I just lost a good half hour reading an article on there about Barcelona then following it up on wikipedia… The department website says there is an opportunity for a 3-2 in Urban Planning with Penn. Is this popular or just available? That’s not something I have to decide for a while but just curious.</p>

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<p>Sorry that this took so long. Just a note, I’ve been told by a friend of mine at Swarthmore that, while they are allowed to take classes in the Cities Department, they are not allowed to major in it. As for the 3+2, I know of some people who are doing it, but not a ton (1 I can think of off the top of my head).</p>

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<p>Missed this thread before… my impression of Swat (where D is applying) is that no one has time for s** anyway… :slight_smile: My D is actually gay, but she has NO impression that Swat has a larger gay community (%-wise) than any other college she is applying to. She did avoid some colleges where she felt it would be an issue. But that left almost all colleges north of the Mason-Dixon line as good candidates. I think this is someone with a conservative axe to grind, not anything based on actual facts.</p>

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<p>Ford’s can take any classes at BMC (or Swat, or (undergrad + some grad)) Penn. They can major in any department at BMC, including Cities (or Archaeology, Art History, Drama, plus all the cognates.), and Mawter’s can major in any department at HC (including Astro, Music, Fine Arts, + all the cognates). There are no permissions required.</p>

<p>So it’s a very open consortium. The schools are very, very close (20’ on foot, 5’ on the Blue Bus).</p>