<p>@Ihs76, My son will have only 2.5-3 years of fencing experience by the time he applies to colleges. He is member of a good fencing club and gets formal training 2-3 times per week by the club coach for epee. You mentioned that your son attends Johns Hopkins…that is my son’s first choice. Did Fencing help with his admissions to the school at all? What kind of academics does Johns Hopkins demand? My son’s GPA is only about 3.5 by sophomore year. Hopefully he’ll improve on that by Senior year. He hasn’t taken the official PSAT, SAT, nor ACT tests but is preparing for them. I just wanted to get an idea if he can even think about Johns Hopkins with his current academics and fencing experience.</p>
<p>spring14, </p>
<p>I sent you a PM.</p>
<p>Recruiting Stories in fencing…</p>
<p>It all started with a few camps we go, we like the schools, we give the coaches a chance to assess her talent level and hope that maybe she’ll get some consideration. We go through the SN interviews in Reno and some schools we thought where interest clearly were not and others that we didn’t consider seem to be the most interested. So, out of that we settle on one or two go through the admission exercise. We visit schools, we talk with coaches, academic advisors etc…We submit apps./supported and then we wait…during the wait we are still training with a club that has a university tie-in,well one of the coaches overhears my D talking with one former Olympian about school etc…and he says you are coming here right when you graduate? She says well I applied for regular admission, but you guys didn’t really seem interested, the assistant was like you applied unsupported when? what action has been taken etc…and my D didn’t know anything(besides) it was the back-up school anyway. So now she is faced with the idea that local school is trying to make an end run,just like the football coach did this week with several NLI commits. Talking about adding more stress to a situation.</p>
<p>Cleveland State University is a Div 1 team–we have a lot of really good individuals on our fencing team, but we lack numbers, so we need you. Also, the academics aren’t tooo bad, either. :)</p>
<p>Hi Sherpa, My son is a Senior who started fencing sabre at the end of 8th grade. His club is 2 hours from home (each way) and he commutes 4 times a week to fence with the Olympic coach there. He did really well his 1st and 2nd years – was 8th at SN Y14, ended up 22nd on the y14 pts list that year and the next year he was 31st on Cadet Pts list. Last year was a tough year and he missed Richmond NAC, so he moved to 50th on Cadet Pts list. His rating is C12. He keeps missing Jr and Div I pts by very slim margins. He’s also in a class of boys who all started fencing at the age of 10, so he is 22nd in the graduating senior boys for sabre this year. He thought he wanted to only go to NYU to stay with his club coach, so we only spoke with that coach and visited him. Now he is branching out for schools. His academics are okay, but would have been stronger had he not devoted so much time to fencing; and he is also dyslexic. We visited Penn and he really liked it so he sent an email to the coach (he always does well at that coach’s yearly tournaments). So is that what he should do with the other schools he is interested in? Or should we go visit the coaches at the schools. Do you think it’s too late for them to consider him? He always fenced because he loved it, not because he wanted it to get him into school so I never really paid attention to all this. Thanks!</p>
<p>As a C12 on the cadet points list he is recruitable at some schools and not at others. His “okay” academics will limit his options. In general, colleges with fencing teams tend to be colleges with higher academic standards. I’d recommend looking at a list of all colleges that offer NCAA men’s fencing and filtering it down to those where his academics are generally in line with the student body and where he thinks he’d be happy, and then pull up the rosters at those schools to see how he would fit in the fencing mix.</p>
<p>Once he has a list of targets, I’d suggest he call or email those college coaches right away. It’s late, but not too late.</p>
<p>Good luck to him in his search.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply Sherpa! I didn’t want to get too personal about his stuff, because as you know the fencing community is rather small. I’m going to email you more details if you don’t mind.</p>
<p>FYI, about college fencing recruiting</p>
<p>First decide what is really important academia or fencing, if you are fortunate enough to have a program interested; talk with the coach and find out what his/her plan is for you as a fencer…Determine if their immediate and long-term plans include you fencing at a competitive level or using your GPA to boost the overall team GPA. Is the coaching staff going to support you through NAC’s or school practices for that matter(nothing is sadder than seeing a true competitor become a cheerleader) Also find out if the coaching staff will release you from NCAA reg. if they lie and allow you to transfer without having to waste a year of eligibility. </p>
<p>I say this as a cautionary tale, because of the 42 womens programs that offer fencing only a third of them manage to field complete team of four per weapon, so there are a lot of schools wanting good fencers not just those who happen to fence and need the gym requirement as some school has resorted too. Some schools are talent deep and I’ve seen too many women walk away from fencing only because they didn’t look all the opportunities.</p>
<p>Schoolhouse makes an excellent point. More fencers aspire to HYPS etc. than there are spots for fencers at those schools. At the same time there are excellent colleges that can’t seem to fill their rosters.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is a lack of recruiting effort by the coaches. Most seem fairly passive.</p>
<p>I believe this creates an opportunity for the academically strong good, not necessarily great fencer. Haverford, Vassar, and Cornell (for women) immediately come to mind. Surely there are others.</p>
<p>which colleges do you find have difficulty finding folks for their fencing teams, or clubs? My son is 16 and about to take lessons. I also wonder if it improves his chances at the better schools. He has a 3.8 GPA, but PSATs were about 176 combined. Please advise</p>
<p>My son started fencing on his HS team 2 years ago and has really seemed to hit his stride the last 6 months. He’s doing fantastic at his HS meets. He’s only done a few tournaments but done far better than we expected and qualified for Junior Olympics. He’s unrated currently but we are going to more tournaments this year. He’s a junior. Could his fencing be a plus in college admissions? He has excellent creds: 3.87 uw GPA w many honors/AP’s, 800’s on Physics & Chem and 790 on World Hx SAT II’s, 230 on PSAT. He participates because he loves it and we never even considered it an admissions advantage, but now I’m wondering about it, especially if he does well at JO and a few other tournaments he plans to compete in. I don’t expect him to be recruited, but do you think it could be a plus? Is it worth contacting coaches this spring?</p>
<p>Proudfather: You are putting the cart before the horse. Just the fact that he fences would not be of help for college admissions any more than participating in any other activity would. Starting at age 16, it’s very unlikely that he would get good enough fast enough to be recruitable. If he loves fencing after he tries it, then by all means have him continue in HS and maybe in college (either varsity or club) but please don’t look at it primarily as a college admission tool. </p>
<p>toots13: Yes, his fencing could definitely get an admission boost if he can get to the recruitable level. What that level is will vary depending on the schools and you can find that info searching various fencing threads on this board. It will depend on how well he does at JOs and tournaments (gets points or a good rating) or if he has a well known coach who will bring him to the attention of the college coaches in lieu of national points or high rating. Recruiting at the top level goes on during the summer between Jr/Sr year of HS and into the fall at the lower level of recruiting.</p>
<p>Look over the various previous threads, they will help you.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback, ihs76! He’ll just keep doing what he’s doing and we’ll see what’s up by the summer. We’ll be looking for an academic fit first but he’d really like to continue fencing in college if possible.</p>
<p>Can someone tell me how difficult it will be to get an actual scholarship or partial scholarship for fencing at any university? I feel like I am investing in my sons future with the amount of money we have spent over the last four years of fencing, but I would love to think it will pay off in help for college later. I have read stats on needing to be in the top percetile in your state for fencing which isnt really hard but there are better fencers in the heavier fencing states. My son has been competing on the national level since he was 9, we attend all NACs and summer nationals. Is that where the college coaches look for their recruits? We have a super coach, very lucky to have him, Olympic fencers are from our club, and of course they get full scholarships but I dont really understand the process…</p>
<p>Hi Sherpa and IHS,
What does “recruiting” mean at Div3 schools in terms of the recruited student’s commitment to fence? Given no financial benefit from the school, does the Div3 fencer need to sign some sort of commitment letter? If the fencer gets into a Div3 school based upon their own strong academic credentials and a nod from the coach, and then decides not to fence after a year or two are there repercussions? I don’t know how this works at Div1 schools where scholarships or other aid is involved either, but doubt that will be something I need to understand. Thanks for being so generous with your ideas.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Fencing can pay off for college, but more as an admissions boost than for scholarships. Very few college fencers receive athletic scholarships. Penn State, Ohio State, and Notre Dame give some, but only to very top recruits. Duke and Stanford offer fewer, and again only to the very best. Not many beyond those schools.</p>
<p>On the other hand, most colleges with fencing offer great need based aid. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, Brown, Duke, Penn and more recruit for fencing and offer great aid.</p>
<p>
The simple answer is no, there are no repercussions, at least not directly for the student. This is true not only for Div3 students, but for any student who isn’t on scholarship.</p>
<p>That said, there are repercussions. The coach may lose future recruiting slots if his recruits don’t compete or go on to graduate. And it could also negatively impact future athletes from your club or high school. One student’s decision to use a tip and bail on the team could have the effect of the coach never recruiting from that club again.</p>
<p>I think this is part of the fencing problem…</p>
<p>We came to fencing six years ago and when we first entered the sport part of the sale was that "you can get a scholarship to fence…</p>
<p>the reality is each school per NCAA mandate can award roughly 4.5 Women and 4 male scholarships; to be used by at least nine women and nine men(provided that the team can field three people for each weapon foil/saber/epee)</p>
<p>after that the schools that generally field fencing teams tend to be academically competitive plus or at the very least are competitive admission, so what that means is that the kids that do apply and get accepted are alreadypretty damn smart—as well as many of those that are denied they are just as smart,now here is the payoff some of those smart kids just happen to have some real fencing, talent. </p>
<p>In fencing we like to use the USFA points list as one measure of that talent (via various NAC/JO/SN & International results) given that let’s factor in another variable,most of the better coaches wil recruit both domestic and international talent, so again the “fencing pull” might very well go to a Polish/German/France/Eastern Bloc National before it goes to Sally/Billy who has ACT’s of 35/4.16 GPA and is in every club and leadership situation your school can offer.</p>
<p>given those very limited odds, the reality is that if you are talented cadet, who can stay interested and continually develop through juniors and be competitive at D1 level in your teens than you stand to get some consideration with or without a club coach that is going to promote YOU. My D situation was different she broke through to win a SN championship when her weapons group was dominated by four girls for six years(two olympians and two who graduated hs the same year).
We also fenced out of my garage without a coach for three years and remained competitive on the national level, while mounting our own recruiting campaign–end result recruited being we were recruited by national championship schools as well as academically competitive schools.</p>
<p>I’ve stated this previously, because fencing is sold as a scholarship sport it makes many parent think that if they participate than they are in line for a payoff versus a disappointment. Understand there is no easy way to athletic or academic scholarship money you MUST have the talent and even then it is tempered by needs of the team and the talent and budget of that team. Understand not everyone is HYSPC-fencing/academic material nor is everyone PSU/OSU/ND-fencing material, but there opportunities to fence at Duke/Temple/USAFA/Cornell/Northwestern/BC in great academic environments and still other opportunities to fence in other academically competitive and financially rewarding situation with the remaining schools that want to field teams, but don’t get enough serious fencers that are interested. I had that discussion with my fencing daughter this morning who stated, that “the coaches really don’t bother with the top point listers, because they already know they are going to school, they just sit back and chose, the real issue is those people who compete(might have some points) who unrealistically reach for the most academically and forget the other options that would welcome them.” </p>
<p>this is no disrespect to any program----but if a 100% paid education to a university where you could compete would you instead continue to seek the 65K out pocket education from university where you’d never have a chance to compete? I don’t think many fencers have that option in front of them, but they could easily have it if they approached the sport holding true to the idea that “you can get a scholarship if you fence.”</p>
<p>Sherpa,</p>
<p>is on point the coaching relationship at the club level and the school level is paramount, certain inroads are made to roster spots at certain schools–“just look at the fencer bios” you see certain programs only look to certain clubs for talent,so if anything a bad fit at one school might cost the club that pipeline of talent.</p>
<p>Schoolhouse’s “the payoff…” post above sums up the situation perfectly.</p>