<p>Thank you Sherpa. I started to mention that concept (potential harm to a coach or club reputation who has vouched for you) in my question but it became wordy and confusing. Yes, fencers have a reputation to uphold and need to consider the sport as a whole. If you use the loyalty and reputation of your coach or club to assist with admissions you should be held accountable. Fortunately we have found the fencing community to be friendly, loyal and commited. My D’s first choice schools only have fencing clubs, but a few div3 schools are interested and interesting. She prefers the club route as there is no “pressure” and she puts enough of that on herself and her future. Should also mention that a former college admissions advisor told her that she could count on one hand the mention of fencing she had ever seen highlighted on the applications she had read over the (many) years. So your school record and testing is paramount, and important in helping place you in an environement you will be comfortable…but fencing can make you interesting. My D wants to fence, but her first choices are club schools. She has passion and priorities and it will work out for her. I am uncomfortable with people trying to engineer placement for their kids (via fencing, rowing, any activity) vs. finding the right place for them. Especially because the kids that dont “fit” into those high level expectations feel like they have let somebody down and are “not good enough”. Make the most of where you are and you will shine. Help your children find their right fit, not fulfill your window sticker dreams.</p>
<p>I agree with the perfect fit for a college, and fencing team for that matter. We have always talked fencing schools with my son. I think if you start early enough you can work to get to the schools you like. I think it is important that the child knows the expectations early on and knows what it will take to get them to the school they want to attend.</p>
<p>When is it to early to start making those contacts with coaches? I think it is important to find tournaments where coaches will be watching for talent, but I wonder how early they start looking.</p>
<p>Interesting question. Some coaches start watching kids freshman or sophomore year. Others are asleep at the wheel until the top recruits have already commited.</p>
<p>People who hear me talk about my daughter’s fencing expenses often say, “but at least she’ll get a college scholarship.” My response is always, “yeah, and if I’m lucky, I should just about break even!”</p>
<p>When you start competing seriously at the national level, lessons, equipment, travel, entries and coaching fees add up to a solid $10K a year – more if you don’t want your child to travel without a parent.</p>
<p>You can double that if you do 2 or 3 international events a year.</p>
<p>So in terms of money, it’s a lousy investment.</p>
<p>In terms of character and physical development, it’s wonderful.</p>
<p>The NCAA does not allow coaches to contact a prospect until after June 15 following his or her sophomore year of high school. </p>
<p>Coaches may come by to watch your child compete as a freshman or sophomore, but they will not introduce themselves or try to speak with you at that point, and do not expect you to acknowledge them. I only knew coaches scouted my daughter because her club coach pointed them out.</p>
<p>So you can’t really do much ground work before your junior year, other than try to be aware of who is showing interest in you.</p>
<p>@sherpa</p>
<p>I would just like to ask if given my academic record(which is to come), if fencing could help me get into a top school(I’m a junior). On the sats I got a 2200, 800 cr, 680 math and 720 writing(I’m retaking it to get the math score into hopefully the mid 700s. I got an 800 on the bio sat 2, and a 5 on the ap, just to add to this I do science research over the summer. I have around a 3.8 gpa(unweighted)Now for fencing. I have been on varsity for two years but I have done absolutely 0 tournaments etc. Im thinking about joining a club soon. Is it too late for it to make an impact on my application? I truly love the sport and I have been told I have great potential, I have just waited too long to act on it. Thanks</p>
<p>Your academic stats are probably good enough if you can convince a coach to support your application, but that will be a huge challenge.</p>
<p>Generally speaking, HS varsity fencing isn’t going to get anybody’s attention. I don’t believe there is a single HS program in the country that develops athletes to the NCAA level. It’s all done in private clubs and USFA results are what coaches care about.</p>
<p>That said, you might be surprisingly good and the exception to the rule. The only way I can think of for you to prove this would be to enter your first USFA event and do very well.</p>
<p>Thanks so much. If it means anything my high school coach knows the coaches at schools such as Princeton Columbia etc. very well and has said he would call the coach of an institution I indicate interest in and talk to them about me. Would this help my case?</p>
<p>It might help if he has a history of past students with great results but, even then, the college coaches are going to want to see what you’ve acccomplished. A lot of fencers with great national results will be passed over by Columbia and Princeton in favor of fencers with even better results. It’s hard to imagine someone with no results getting support at colleges with strong programs.</p>
<p>Thanks. This has been helpful. I guess instead of being an important part of my application it will take a backseat role to everything else.</p>
<p>Don’t hesitate to write about your fencing as an EC. And keep in mind that a fencing coach at any college would welcome you to try to “walk on”.</p>
<p>Your stats are good. I’m sure you’ll end up at a great school. Good luck!</p>
<p>Just an FYI…</p>
<p>Pre-recruiting if you have a fencer that attends NAC’s/JO’s or ROC’s where there a number of college (NCAA) fencers with coaches try to put on a show…I remember more than a few times where Northwestern/Notre Dame/Ohio State/Stanford/NYU/Duke coaches had to step in and “save” their fencers from my high schooler. Those pool or long bouts turned out to be great recruiting tools, so take advantage of every opportunity in addition following the normal recruit process.</p>
<p>What kind of national rank must one have, assuming their academics are in order,to get recruited by HYP? Top 32 national ranking? Top 16? Top 8?</p>
<p>I don’t think it works quite that way, but I would be interested to see others’ answers. And to add a question: do the cadet rankings matter at all, or is it just the juniors, since that is where the current college competitors all are?</p>
<p>Great questions, but there aren’t any simple answers. It will vary by school, weapon, and year.</p>
<p>First, the differences between schools: Harvard and Princeton currently have the top fencing teams in the Ivy League; on the womens’ side Princeton has won the league championships four straight years and the H and P men have each won two of the last four. Columbia and Penn are next. Yale isn’t even in the hunt. As a school, Yale has devalued athletics, so their coach’s ability to recruit is limited. He also seems disinterested in recruiting. In any event, getting recruited to Yale is nearly impossible, and their lack of recruiting shows in their results.</p>
<p>The allure of H and P for top recruits is clear. They’re arguably the best colleges in the country, they both offer generous financial aid and, for a fencer, the opportunity to to train and compete with some of the best in the sport makes the choice pretty easy.</p>
<p>Every year there are a (small) number of highly ranked fencers who have the academic credentials to be accepted anywhere, and H and P both go after these recruits. So for any potential recruit it comes down to:</p>
<p>How many academically strong applicants are ahead of me on the points lists?
What school has needs in my weapon?</p>
<p>I’ve got to run; I’ll add more later.</p>
<p>I can absolutely second what you say about Yale. I went with my daughter to the fencing open house at my 30th reunion. Afterwards she asked the coach a question I couldn’t hear, but I saw the look on her face at his reply. </p>
<p>“What did he say to you?”</p>
<p>“He told me I should apply to Princeton.”</p>
<p>Better question: What kind of national rankings have been recruited by HPS in the past? I’m currently a high-school sophomore with some pretty significant results, and I’m just trying to find some sort of target to shoot for.</p>
<p>Yale…love the story, </p>
<p>funny he asked me if my D was interested at the 2010 NCAA championships, I said she hadn’t considered them and he smiled and said she wasn’t the only who hadn’t considered them either.</p>
<p>Nycbees - that’s laugh out loud funny.
Schoolhouse - I’m surprised. I’ve never seen him smile.</p>
<p>CollegeFanatic52 - Here’s how to go about answering your question.</p>
<p>First check the team rosters and identify the freshmen recruits. Disregard anyone who isn’t on the points list; they’re probably a walk-on. Then check the historical USFA points lists to see where those fencers were at the end of their junior year in high school. </p>
<p>Unfortunately the historical point standings are currently unavailable due to a USFA website migration, but hopefully they’ll be up again soon.</p>
<p>As a rough estimate, I’d think one would need to be in the top 15 or so on the junior points list and probably have some senior points too. Again, it will vary by weapon and year.</p>
<p>I just looked at the current Men’s Foil points lists. The HS class of 2012 (currently college freshmen) was freakishly strong. Six kids from the class of '12 are in the top 10 on the USFA senior points list (for anyone wondering, the senior category isn’t age restricted; they’re the best of the best). Of these six, two represented the USA in the Olympics (not Junior Olympics, the real one) and are at Stanford and Notre Dame. Three of the others in the top ten are current freshmen at Harvard and Princeton.</p>
<p>To be recruited in MF that year one would have had to be VERY good. That year and weapon are an outlier, but it should dispel any notions that casual fencing is a “hook” at top schools.</p>
<p>A more typical recruit I know was ranked around 6th on the Junior point list and 12th on the senior point list his senior year of HS, also in foil.</p>
<p>It seems that of the three weapons, foil is currently the most skewed toward younger fencers. A lower ranking would probably go farther in epee or sabre.</p>
<p>Edit to add: As the strong crop of freshman foilists ages, voids will occur in these rosters, so relatively weaker fencers may see some opportunities.</p>