<p>^^Yes, dave72, my H, myself, and my D went to Oberlin. It's better understood as a place that defies "type" because the prevailing attitude is indifferent to how people dress -- in any direction. They just don't care what you wear, but what you think about and do. </p>
<p>If someone needs a "critical mass" of nonconformists that match, then perhaps a larger, or more urban school, makes more sense. "Goth" could certainly be a teen phase, and many goths morph into "hipsters" of which Oberlin attracts quite a few, but they are there within a broad swath of kids who are "independent" as dave72 named it best. </p>
<p>Two Oberlin graduates prominent nationally now: Ed Helms on "The Daily Show", and the newly elected mayor of Washington, D.C. They wear suits to work.</p>
<p>Ten years ago, on a tour, I thought I saw a lot of goth-y and punk looking kids at Hampshire College on campus; making full use of the resources at the FIve College COnsortium. But I don't know if they give merit aid. They're so new (established in the l960's) and endowment might be weak. </p>
<p>See also: Ithaca College, which certainly does give merit, has many in performing arts plus all the liberal arts majors, and costs something less than (I recall around $10K less than..) the sticker-shock prices of the $40K places. Very progressive history and culture in the town of Ithaca. Cornell's also there, but a different side of town. Very far from any city.</p>
<p>SUNY Purchase is the creative arts magnet of the State University of New York; I think around $6K instate, $13K out-of-state; it's 40 suburban minutes from downtown Manhattan. Its least appealing feature is the campus itself: highrise buildings + parking lots + woods to play frisbee. BUT: there's that the subway into Manhattan...</p>
<p>I mentioned Oberlin, not as a negative, as one of my closest friends is a free thinker and is an Oberlin grad. I remember thinking I would have loved to be at a school like Oberlin back in the days!</p>
<p>Twinmom: Yeah, he's going to Williams, I think to have the outdoor life he didn't
get during his childhood because his sister hated it so much. I felt sad saying goodbye to Vassar, but I felt bad saying goodbye to all the "also rans". Our money was also better with two -- D is at Barnard because she wanted opposite, urban experience. I would have thought a boy with S's stats would have made V. come up with best offer it could, but maybe it was sign to me that Williams was his school. He was always sure from the second he walked onto to campus, as was D. Mysterious, isn't it?</p>
<p>Where does your other twin go?</p>
<p>dave72: My S is going to Williams but he ISN'T preppy or an athlete; I think he loves the mountains. I'm sure he would fit in at Oberlin. He just wanted to be closer to home, and as a musician felt ambivalent about conservatory. I don't think he wanted to feel guilty he wasn't practicing four hours a day. He's very left leaning politically but kind of conservative in his life style so I think he would fit in anywhere but frat type school.</p>
<p>Don't worry. Lots of people think well of Oberlin. BTW: S's first violin teacher graduated from Oberlin and became a professional violinist. Identical twin went to Williams and became an MD.</p>
<p>The reason schools like Oberlin or Wes get mentioned on a thread like this, is not because every student is really out there, or even "alternative," but actually for the opposite reason--that there is no "dominant" type of student, and more importantly, all types of students are welcomed and accepted. My D, for instance, has no piercings (not even ears), no tattoos, has never dyed her hair, and was a nondrinker. OTOH, she also did not wear makeup, wore thrift shop clothes, and was politically very active. She had friends with all sorts of styles, including preppy, and they all were really welcoming of each other. No pressure to conform, little interest in having to have a certain brand of clothing or act any particular way.</p>
<p>I think this kind of atmosphere is what I would recommend to the OP's D, not necessarily one where there were a ton of Gothesque kids.</p>
<p>Bard has a completely different feel (to the visitor, anyway) than Oberlin -- there are more visibly "hipster" and "Goth" types at Bard; the students I saw at Oberlin looked a lot more like the kids in Berkeley, i.e., casually dressed in t-shirts and jeans.<br>
Smith might be a choice as well -- good merit aid (see Mini's posts); lots of Gothy girls hanging around Northhampton -- also an excellent school.</p>
<p>I'm more familiar with the west coast schools, but University of Washington, Pitzer College and Univ. of Puget Sound might be worth a look.
My nephews all went to UDub, and when I've been up there it seems like a very comfortable place for all types of kids, with many "alternative" types. Pitzer's student body is considered a bit more out of the mainstream than the rest of the Claremont consortium, yet they all blend in pretty well as a group. I believe Puget Sound offers some good merit aid and has the Pacific Northwest alternative vibe as well. I'm not sure about merit aid at Pitzer.
I would second bethie's recommendation of Grinnell and Macalaster as comfy places for all types of kids if the midwest is an option.. great schools with the possibilty of merit aid.</p>
<p>I agree that the Oberlin stereotypes are just that -- cartoonish and inaccurate shorthand. On the other hand, I had a roommate at Oberlin who morphed within 1 month from (a) long-haired, bearded, granola-eating, india-print-'tent'-around-his-part-of-the-room, sandal-wearing, bead-bearing, give-peace-a-chance hippie to (b) hard-edged, leather-wearing, philosophy-spouting, new-wave 'punk,' a la early Elvis Costello. Few people found this change to be remarkable. Like Elvis, he is now living in Manhattan and making tons of dough.</p>
<p>William and Mary is a dream school for her. But isn't it kind of impossible for an out of state person to become admitted? I like a lot of the ideas offered here. It's so great to have schools that I've never heard of put forward because I'm simply not knowledgeable. Thank you!</p>
<p>I was overwhelmed by W&M's preppiness...(worse than UVa, IMHO!). Shouldn't have surprised me, I guess, seeing as I have my J-Crew-wearing, bussinesswoman mom alum as an example. And Williamsburg was. So. Small. I guess it could be your D's thing if her idea of "alternative" is historical reenactments and horse-drawn carriages? Mom literally begged me to apply. NO WAY. My permanent fixed image of that school is girls in khaki skirts and blazers doing homework in the almost deathly silent sunken garden/lawn under a statue of some old civil war hero. And occassionally tourists in Washington wigs will take photos (ok, exaggerated, but, you get the point! At the very least I would describe W&M as "quaint" - certainly not "weird"). </p>
<p>Did your daughter visit W&M? Did I just go on an off-day? Haha.</p>
<p>"Did your daughter visit W&M? Did I just go on an off-day? Haha"</p>
<p>She did visit, but focused much more on the physical setting and on the program, rather than the people. She's just now really begun to think of the "who" she will eventually attend college with. Thankfully, she's only a rising sophomore, so there is plenty of time.</p>
<p>I agree with UMCP. My eyebrows did an involuntary raise when I read the above statement. Most of the kids I know of who went to W&M were more traditional.</p>
<p>ZM - Most of the suggestions here have been small schools, but bear in mind that at a lot of medium-sized and larger schools - perhaps public universities in particular?- the student body will be large enough to have a critical mass of Goths, preps and everything in between. And after a semester or two, personalities may shift enough that the high school labels no longer apply.</p>
<p>I just checked out their website because I wasn't familiar. There is a section called "clues you are a future hampshire student" and I was astounded to see how many WERE here. Wild.</p>
<p>I'm not clear what you're looking for financially. Some of the worst schools for merit-based aid may be great for need -based aid. In my experience Beloit, Goucher, Grinnell, Lewis & Clark and Oberlin gave significant merit aid and also give need-based aid. Reed, Vassar and Haverford give nothing for merit but are probably good on need. Hampshire is indeed a great school for weirdos--it just doen't fit every weirdo.</p>
<p>Have her look into The New School University in NYC (Greenwich Village specifically). It's actually 8 schools under one umbrella, and the students all pretty much march to a different drummer. Good education, excellent locale, especially for a creative artsy type who is also bookish.</p>
<p>ZM- Wm and Mary is not impossible for OOS kids but it is definitely not easy. My kid was accepted (Long Island School district) and one of her camp friends from another LI district also was accepted and is now a Senior. But I gotta agree with the others, it definitely had a pretty "preppy"/quaint vibe. (But then again, it's Jon Stewart's alma mater.)<br>
But I did find it one of the most pleasant campuses that I visited. Maybe it was the woodsiness or camplike setting (I loved summer camp) but I also loved the campus environment.<br>
If costs are a factor- don't overlook SUNY Purchase and New Paltz. Both these Suny's have a bit more of an "artsy" reputation than some of the other state schools.</p>
<p>Many of the schools already listed may meet your kids needs, but most of these schools are quite expensive- unless you can get a good financial package.
Again- she is young and her interest may change. Don't rule out the large Public U's too- like Mich/Wisconsin.</p>