<p>As for 100+ student classes, I truly don’t know, it just seems so hard for me to believe that there can be so many kids in a room. Scary…
But I guess it is true…</p>
<p>bluedevilmike:</p>
<p>“Not sure exactly what this means.”</p>
<p>If you read a few post back and then reread my post, it makes a little more sense. When mcat2 said
“I have some doubt that this would be the case (the case that I said that they don’t look at GPA totally)…I doubt the admission officers will split their hair to decide which one is “harder”. They can afford not to do so, as they have much more qualified applicants than they can admit.”
What my reply meant is that they just don’t move on because they think that they are more qualified applications, I was saying that they still look over those applications.</p>
<p>cdz: Cornell has an auditorium that fits close to 600 kids in which introductory biology is taught. there are 2 sections to accomodate the number of students taking intro bio. gen chem has about 1100 students taking the course in a room that fits about 500. psych 101, taught in an amphitheatre, holds over 1300 students. 100+ student classes…i would love to be in a 100 student classroom!! so small… =P</p>
<p>At S’s school, I think there are at least 150-200 students for most introductory science classes (i.e., pre-reqs). There are small TA-led sessions in addition to the large lectures.</p>
<p>For the general chemistry, there are two popular tracks. (Actually there is a much smaller third track, for the “dummy” Let us not count these.) Students on a different track are in a different class. So, there are like 300+ students taking general chemistry. I suspect that there are about 100 (my wild guess here only) from these introductory chemistry classes who will apply to medical schools between the junior year and the senior year. (There are also many students starting from orgo in freshmen – there are 3 tracks of orgo, of similar difficulty, also.) It is not easy to know how many on each of these orgo tracks.)</p>
<p>So, the attrition rate (excluding the alumni applicants here) may be 60- 70%. (The rule of thumb I arbitrarily follow here is that, out of all the applicants, there are roughly 50% alumni and 50% current senior students. This is just because I do not have more complete information.) Note that the attrition rate that I used here is not an ordinary one.</p>
<p>I think this is the case for many other introductory classes (e.g., economics, psycology, etc.), not only specific to premed classes. If you want a really small class, choose an “unpopular” major or track.</p>
<p>My son’s best friend went to Wharton. His advanced calculus class freshman year had 250-300 students in it. Some big classes are simply a reality at most schools unless a very small LAC.</p>
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<p>There are plenty of students who turn down HPYS every year for significant merit scholarships at top public schools. I would venture to say that they are as good or better than the students who accepted the spot. Be careful not to make such broad generalizations about the quality of students at public schools.</p>
<p>My S personally knows two students who turned down these schools and went to a flagship state school instead.</p>
<p>My subjective opinion on this: Suppose that the top X percents of the students from the prestigious school may be regarded as competitive students and the top Y percents of the students from the state school are as competitive. X may be larger than Y, but it is difficult to tell how much larger. My wild guess would be that X is 20 to 25% and Y is 4 to 5% (assuming a very large state school), but any of you can have your own guess, which is as good as mine unless any of us has some hard data to support the claim.</p>
<p>What complicates things here is that, unlike the high school, the rating/quality of an undergraduate school may be different than that of the graduate school. Some students think it is very important to have access to the resources provided by its associated graduate school, but some others do not think it is so critical.</p>
<p>"There are plenty of students who turn down HPYS every year for significant merit scholarships at top public schools. "</p>
<p>D. did not see any reason to even apply to HPYS. She is doing just fine at State school. Classes are very tough, she would not like them to be any tougher. Opportunities for the very top students are awesome, they would not be the same at HPYS, where she would be just another face in a crowd. She continues having straight A’s. Just came back from trip to New Zealand with organized group from her school. Overall, she is not missing anything, getting great experiences at the very low price in tough economic times.</p>
<p>I know the conversation is more about state schools but…</p>
<p>this cycle we’ll have a one data point test of whether turning down admission to a HYP school in favor of great opps at a (relatively) unknown but (relatively) well-respected LAC was a great idea when “top research-oriented med school” is the goal. When my D made her choice I counseled that we wouldn’t know if it was the right one till much farther down the line. I was thinking specifically about grad/med school admissions when I said it. </p>
<p>She has made the most of her opps and put together a darn good CV… but the fact remains that her school is not on the same footing as HYPSDMC (or several others). She has worked very hard to convey a “home movie” of herself in a well integrated application . Some will like her, some won’t but they’ll all get to “know” her through the app and (hopefully) her LOR’s. “It is what it is.” </p>
<p>While we’ll never know if her choice of UG made a/the difference (or if her app/GPA/opps would have even looked the same from the “rejected” school) , I know I’ll be wondering. That’s what I do. Thankfully, it’s not what she does. She rarely looks back. </p>
<p>I will say that her UG school has made her a much better student, a much better writer, and instilled her with a great deal of confidence in her academics (not that she was ever lacking in THAT ;)). That “fit” issue has its trade-offs, doesn’t it? She got exactly what was promised to her, exactly what she desired coming out of high school, but is that what her target med schools want? We are about to see. Stay tuned.</p>
<p>"I was thinking specifically about grad/med school admissions when I said it. "</p>
<p>That was primary reason (in addition to low price) why my D went to State school, she is in combined bs/md, so she has her spot in Med. school as long as she gets mcat=27, which i heard is an average.</p>
Let us not count these.) Students on a different track are in a different class. So, there are like 300+ students taking general chemistry. I suspect that there are about 100 (my wild guess here only) from these introductory chemistry classes who will apply to medical schools between the junior year and the senior year. (There are also many students starting from orgo in freshmen – there are 3 tracks of orgo, of similar difficulty, also.) It is not easy to know how many on each of these orgo tracks.)</p>