<p>The thread for U.S. parents whose kids are going to school in Canad or thinking about it.</p>
<p>The Kid is heading to UBC in September. So far he has had to deal with getting a study permit (student visa) which required him to submit two passport photos, bank statements and a letter from me saying I was financially responsible. This, along with a passport sufficed–they told him at the consulate to wait for an interview and he sat for hours but then they issued him his visa no interview. </p>
<p>There are other things that differ from U.S. practice–please use this thread to offer advice to others who are considering Canada.</p>
<p>Bottom line: he’s not there yet and he’s screwed up in a couple of major areas, e.g. not bothering to read email when they are very email intensive and so he missed the housing deadline. I made him call and grovel and the UBC housing office could not have been more wonderful and gracious–they re-opened the online registration for him and he got a dorm room.</p>
<p>UBC campus and dorm is probably one of the most beautiful in the world. Congratulations to your kid.</p>
<p>I agree w/munchkin. We visited the UBC campus two yrs ago. It is so beautiful and the air is so crisp and clean!!!</p>
<p>My DD did a semester at UBC and is now working an internship in Canada, we have lived in Canada too, as Americans. Ask me anything.</p>
<p>My kids didn’t go to college in Canada (although they would have applied to Canadian schools if they needed an additional safety). However, I have Canadian family, including two recent university grads and one university professor, and one each of my children’s best friends go/went to the University of Toronto and McGill, respectively. So I have a decent knowledge base.</p>
<p>For the two children’s friends (one now a junior, the other just graduated), the experience could not have been better. The McGill student chose it over Penn on economic grounds, and that worked out pretty well, despite a mid-career spike in the Canadian dollar (mitigated by the fact that her family had purchased currency options in advance – a good idea). She was in an honors program at McGill, which essentially eliminated the downside of Canadian universities – a first year consisting of huge, impersonal lecture classes – by giving her an all-seminar freshman schedule, which she loved. Montreal was great. She had no trouble getting jobs and earning money. She has had tons of opportunities in her field, is working in Jordan now, and will be a strong candidate for PhD programs when she applies later in the year.</p>
<p>My attitude toward McGill has shifted a lot with this woman’s experience. Before that, I knew several people – one of my nieces, her best friend, the step-daughter of a former partner – who had transferred out of McGill because they found it impersonal and unintellectual. All of that happened ten years ago at this point, though.</p>
<p>The kid at Toronto is a very intellectual, quirky student. She could not be loving it more there – loves her courses, loves the city, loves her college. She got a university fellowship one summer to study in Croatia. I will say also that my niece who went to Toronto had two American roommates her last two years, and you would not find nicer, smarter women anywhere. One is in graduate school in a health field in Chicago now, and is a joy to talk with about her work; the other has a great curatorial job at a well-known U.S. art museum. My sister-in-law who is a Toronto professor recently spent a semester at a tippy-top U.S. LAC; she did not think the students there were any better than her Toronto undergraduates, and she found them (and the college) a lot less interesting.</p>
<p>In general, the Canadian universities are not so different from good U.S. publics. They have lots of students, there is something of a sink-or-swim culture (especially at Toronto, which has lower admission standards than McGill, but washes out a large percentage of each entering class). There is less campus culture than at equivalent U.S. schools (even at less urban universities), although some of Toronto’s colleges offer a more “collegiate” environment there.</p>
<p>U.S. students tend to be shocked by how left-wing and anti-U.S. Canadian students are. The “center” there probably equates to the left wing of the Democratic party here. Our McGill friend, something of a red-diaper baby who considers herself a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, found that she was a conservative in the array of political ideologies at McGill.</p>
<p>One more thing. The drinking age in Canada is 19 generally, and 18 in Quebec. As a result, the culture of alcohol is integrated into college life there in a more open and officially sanctioned manner than happens here anymore. It is more like it was in my youth. That can lead to some excess – three days into her McGill orientation, my daughter’s friend told her that she had decided to hang out with the Communists for the rest of orientation, because they were the only ones not drinking all the time, and if she never spoke to another drunk boy again it would be too soon (and this was not a teetotalling kid) – but on the whole I think it tends to support the arguments made here that legalizing alcohol for college-age students would reduce unhealthy behaviors.</p>
<p>My S and I did a day trip to UVictoria from Seattle in May and it was quite scenic and easy to travel to and from downtown and the harbor by bus. I recommend it for anyone looking at schools in the Pac NW. S also is thinking hard about Acadia, on the opposite coast (can you tell he’s interested in being far, far from home?).</p>
<p>Have any of you found the absence of merit aid or school loans to be a daunting obstacle to get past? We like the lower price tags of Canadian universities but are wondering if seemingly much more expensive U.S. schools might in the end be cheaper if you can land a good aid package.</p>
<p>I’m interested in applying to Mount Allison and Acadia this year. Admittedly, I’m largely attracted by the lower price tags, and consider them to be financial safeties.</p>
<p>Illinois Dad: The McGill I described above got a small-but-not-insignificant merit scholarship, despite being American. It was sort of icing on the cake, though. Before her scholarship, and net of hedging costs, McGill’s tuition was roughly equivalent to in-state flagship tuition at a state that does better for its residents than Pennsylvania does. The Canadian university would have been meaningfully less expensive than her American Ivy alternative even after financial aid. I would specify, however, that this was evaluated before the last round of financial aid improvements, and that this student’s family fell into the “no man’s land” of not really enough income or savings to pay for college, but too much to qualify for a lot of non-loan need-based aid. She never really pursued the U.S. merit-scholarship game, and it’s entirely possible that she could have done better financially in the U.S., but she would have had to go waaaaaay down the food chain to do that. She was a good student, and an attractive candidate for admission anywhere, but unbalanced, and not an all-around superstar type or a National Merit finalist. </p>
<p>The absence of Stafford loans was an issue. But her parents had decent equity in their home.</p>
<p>I tried but DS went to college at age 17 and that made for some complications with Canada.</p>
<p>Thanks for the answer, JHS. We’re in that no-man’s-land you refer to, and are considering Canada as an option to going down the food chain. As I keep telling our hard-working, high-achieving S, some kind of compromise is going to have to be made because of the $$$ factor – caliber of school, graduating in 3 years, etc. Canada could be an appealing way to get around that somewhat.</p>
<p>What you said above about the honors program and all seminars at McGill is interesting; S had dismissed McGill because of the hugeness factor but perhaps I can get him to take another look now. Also intrigued by the notion of buying currency options to hedge against a spike in the loonie.</p>
<p>In October 2007, DD and I traveled to Montreal to look at McGill and UQAM , and then on to Quebec City to visit Laval and Universite du Quebec. We saw 4 schools in 5 days- very do-able, using public transit in the cities, and a rented car to get from Montreal to Quebec City. A nice advenutre! </p>
<p>Our trip co-incided with the national education fair in Montreal-see this link for the 2009 fair: </p>
<p>[The</a> National Education Fair Montreal - Home](<a href=“http://www.saloneducation.com/saloneducation2007/en/index.php]The”>http://www.saloneducation.com/saloneducation2007/en/index.php) </p>
<p>She loved McGill & applied there last year & was accepted. Sadly, the only FA she received was a “minor” award totaling $3000. Inexpensive as the overall price tag is, we still could not afford to send her there, so she declined in favor of a very good offer at a LAC in the States. </p>
<p>Thought D speaks French, I do not. Even so, I found virtually everyone at McGill accomodating. The Library was beautiful & extensive. She sat in on 2 classes on the day we toured- one large, one small. Seemed like lots of Americans were enrolled. </p>
<p>Montreal was very beautiful, accessable, culturally diverse and a good fit for someone looking for a big city experience. I used to live in Toronto, and I also feel that city is a wonderful place to live, though I did not attend school there.</p>
<p>UQAM (University of Quebec at Montreal) compares to a mid level state school in the US. Lots of the campus is underground. We had a nice tour (all in French) but the overall feel was less academic, so she did not feel drawn to apply there. </p>
<p>In Quebec City, there was much less English spoken, of course. A beautiful city- we toured a little bit & saw the high-lights. It was late fall, so the trees were outstanding.</p>
<p>Laval is a large, sub-urban school on the outskirts of Quebec City. The bus system is very good, so transportation was easy. Most buildings are connected by underground tunnels. On a school day, they would be bustling, but part of our trip was on a week-end, and I felt very uncomfortable in the long, empty concrete tunnels. Above ground, the campus has beautiful trees. Most of the buildings are unimpressive- grey concrete & windows, not much character. The students cook thier own meals in the dorms- in communal kitchens. It seems the students get used to it, but it is different from the cafeteria experience most college students get. Though they do get some Americans there, the ADCOM we met with had never met anyone from Tennessee. </p>
<p>Neither of the Quebec Universities appealled to her. She had the travel melt-down right as we walked onto Laval, so her heart was not in it. It was a good trip anyway. She would’ve always wondered if she missed anything.</p>
<p>If anyone has questions about Laval or UQAM, I’d be happy to help.</p>
<p>We have a friend who did engineering at UVic, not the most famous or highly ranked Canadian university, but sure in a great location. It was a 5 year programme with at least 3 internships for a term. He got a job offer last fall in the middle of the market crashes and is now working full time.</p>
<p>Illinois Dad – actually, rather than options I think they had forward contracts, which were cheaper (given that they planned actually to buy the currency).</p>
<p>McGill is an institution of the anglophone community in Montreal, and it is perfectly possible to go there for four years and never to learn more French than you need to get a croissant in a shop. The other Quebec universities are overwhelmingly francophone.</p>
<p>JHS, perhaps this is a recent change, but in looking at the UBC website, there is an option for American students to take out Stafford loans:<br>
<a href=“https://you.ubc.ca/ubc/vancouver/usloans.ezc[/url]”>https://you.ubc.ca/ubc/vancouver/usloans.ezc</a></p>
<p>Here is their scholarship link for international students as well:
<a href=“https://you.ubc.ca/ubc/vancouver/intlscholarships.ezc[/url]”>https://you.ubc.ca/ubc/vancouver/intlscholarships.ezc</a></p>
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<p>I live in Nova Scotia and I think that Mount A and Acadia are the closest things to LAC’s as you’ll find in Canada. I’d personally recommend Mount A. The alumni are fiercely passionate about their school and I’ve heard nothing but good things, and the town is pretty quaint although that holds true for Acadia as well.</p>
<p>S is a jumior at McGill. He started when he was 17 so an administrator had to be his legal guardian until he was 18. He just signed a paper and met the women once - not a big deal. Student visas ar only good fro three years so he’ll have to eal with that next summer - again!
They only offer housing to 1st years but the off-campus housing is cheap. He has a mix of huge (economics) classes and very small (language) classes and it all suits him just fine. Absolutely no hand holding - they couldn’t care less if you fail/pass/leave! He tells me - and I’ve heard from other sources - that there is a significant amount of grade deflation. (Insert winking smiley face here.)
He’s never had the need to speak ANY French - but he just spent the summer with some Quebecois and that may have changed. He has found that the French-speaking students are generally commuters - the Anglophone students who generally populate dorms and student ghetto come from outside of Quebec.
He loves it - the city, the people, the atmosphere. Caveat emptor - it is huge and urban but a deal from our perspective.</p>
<p>DS got a MS from Toronto (scholarships and fellowship) after CarnegieMellon. He loved it there. His advisor recommended him to nice internships.</p>
<p>We live in the US but my wife is Canadian and our kids are dual citizens. All of our bright Canadian cousins go to McGill. Most are very, very happy. One went to Oxford for a couple of years and now is in a PhD program in genomics, math and computer science at MIT (probably the best in the world for that kind of stuff), his sister is in a PhD program in biology at University of Toronto. Both loved McGill and the sister had good offers in the US but chose to stay in Canada. The one who majored in economics is on his way to a year at Oxford. He is extremely bright and was somewhat dissappointed by his classmates – lots of kids who didn’t work that hard or weren’t that bright. His sister who never had to work that hard (stunningly beautiful – occasional model and – good things just come to her) has had to work very hard as she was learning study habits for the first time. She’s not in the honors part and is not happy with the big classes. The first three all got essentially full scholarships.</p>
<p>My son didn’t apply in Canada – we’re fortunate to be able to afford college and we thought given some health problems he was having that it was better to stay closer to home. He was at the top of his class at a very competitive East Coast public HS and had high SAT scores and got in at a fair number of very good schools, so all is well. My daughter is a rising junior with a B+ average at a school with a strict curve with a B- median, so pretty good but not the top. She hasn’t been a great standardized test-taker to date, but we’re going to work on it. </p>
<p>I had always thought that McGill would be a good school for her and she will apply. We co-own a cottage on a lake in the Laurentians and spend part of every summer there (though we are not Quebec residents and although my wife grew up in Montreal, she was born in Calgary). ShawbridgeFilles speaks reasonable French – she was at AP level French as a HS sophomore. Her cousin will be a junior at McGill next year. But, I’m a little scared of the big classes as she is used to smaller classes than public high schools. We’re planning a ShawbridgePere et Filles Canada University tour that will include Mount Allison, UBC, U of Toronto (she’s working in a biology lab at U of T this summer). I had not heard of Acadia. What is its reputation and what are its strengths? Are there other schools we should visit on the ShawbridgePere et Filles Canada University tour?</p>
<p>This post stimulated a question I’ve been mulling over and would love thoughts:</p>
<p>My instinct is that some of the Canadian schools are pretty strong. We’ve invested heavily in getting ShawbridgeFilles the foundations – her current school is fabulous at teaching writing and is working with her on study skills. I think McGill tuition for my daughter as a Canadian citizen who doesn’t reside in Quebec would be around C$7000. The tuition at Williams is US$39K and Colorado College is US$37K. There are some colleges that cause me to think the $30K+ price differential (ignoring currency fluctuations) was a no-brainer, but not that many – their benefits involve causing the students to have high expectations and wide horizons, phenomenal contacts (students, alumni networks, professors). Maybe there are 15-20 schools in that category (e.g., HYPSMC, Amherst, Williams, …).</p>
<p>My daughter’s private school sends lots of kids to a few of the top end schools like Brown, Princeton and Columbia but also to a lot of good LACs like Vassar, Hamilton, Colorado College, Connecticut College, etc. Without any price differential, some of the Canadian schools are stronger than many American schools – how would one compare McGill or Mount Allison with Hamilton or Connecticut College? But it would be hard not to pay attention to the price differential. The question from my standpoint, there is a question as to how does one make decisions when you are trading off school quality and fit with finances? I could reserve some of the $120K I didn’t spend and save it for ShawbridgeDaughter’s downpayment on her first house or invest it for her kids’ education. How are you thinking about this?</p>