I’ve seen a lot of discussion here where it is assumed the value of college can be measured in economic terms. A facebook friend, who is a college dean, posted this article from The Washington Post. I tend to agree with the author:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/09/college-is-not-a-commodity-stop-treating-it-like-one/
Well, heck, look at all the people on CC who rate Harvard et al’s “worth” by how well it places into investment banking / Wall Street. Utter cluelessness. If all the banks stopped recruiting at the Ivy League tomorrow, that wouldn’t diminish the value of those educations one iota.
While the benefits of college education go beyond the economic ones, how many people would attend college if they did not believe that there was any economic benefit to doing so?
Like it or not, the use of college degrees as selection criteria in the job market, and the cost of attending college, mean that economic factors intrude into college decisions.
“it is assumed the value of college can be MEASURED in economic terms”
College is a huge investment of all kind of resources, money, time, opportunity cost,…etc. How else one can measure the success of investment ? We can make any pictures that we can imagine but the measurement is a measurement and that is why it is called “a measurement”, it is not the picture, it is not a feeling, it is a number. I do not have any opinion of it, I just look at it as vocabulary directs me to look.
I think it would diminish the perceived value of the education in the eyes of the many students and parents who had counted on having access to job opportunities in investment banking.
Some people may not like it, but career opportunities play a major role in the college decisions of today’s families. Economic value isn’t all there is to college, but it’s certainly part of it.
It was a lot easier to inhale the rarefied air of pure education when tuition was only $800 per semester. But how does one NOT take into account economic terms when lifelong crippling debt might be waiting for them at the end of this intellectual idyll?
“College is not a commodity!” and, from the cited article, “The value of a degree depends more on the student’s input than on the college’s curriculum”.
OK, that all sounds good but, then, remind me again why we’re paying $250,000 for that school that’s the “right fit”?
"why we’re paying $250,000 for that school that’s the “right fit”?
-if the question is truly why and not the statement that it is realy truly worth paying that much, if this is a true question, then the true answer is that you choose so. The family could have chosen to send the kid to a college that was a right fit and at the same time either very cheap or tuition free or free ride. We totally agree (including D.) that the student work and other activities at college and not the college itself is making a difference. We were true to our belief (including D.) as D. opted to attend in-state public on full tuition Merit while withstanding all the push from her GC to attend at Ivy / Elite after graduating #1 from the #2 private HS in our state. D’s belief has been proven correct for her. Again, it is for HER and not the person who wants to attach Harvard to his name for the rest of hsi life. She is happy and content to be proud of her college. Her hard work and commitment at college resulted in achieving her altimate goal of being accepted at several Medical Schools, couple in top 20s. She also mentioned that few of her friends in Med. School class regret ever attending Ivy as it gave them no advantage at all, just higher student loans. It is all behind us. What will stay is great memory of the incredible college life that was in fact a perfect match and the residency placement that was D’s first choice and NO LOANS. But we choose to pay for D’s Medical school after her very wise and right decision to attend tuition free college.
So, the answer is very clear, we are all paying because we choose to do so and nothing else.
I don’t think he’s arguing that college is worth any cost and that people should just shut up and pay. I think what he’s saying is that college is a process, not a product. You’re buying a chance for an experience, not a piece of paper or a credential. Incurious passive students who just sit in class and don’t take responsibility for their own learning are legion. They have a cargo cult attitude toward college (“if I get a college degree, I will have a middle- class life”) but they don’t understand the demands of the experience, and they get resentful if they are treated like students instead of consumers.
How do you justify that? If say, a new discovery in biology renders everything you learned about as a biology major false, how would that not diminish the value of your education? Or how is that not an appropriate analogy? If this were to happen your ability to produce work in biology would be immediately diminished, just like if banks stopped recruiting at Ivy Leagues, your ability to produce value at banks would be immediately diminished. The reasons are different but the result is the same.
Let’s try a creating a college where we charge typical public university tuitions and there are no degrees, see how successful it is.
The flip side, which of course is an actual situation and not a hypothetical as you posit, is students who think they have a right to a diploma just because they paid for the credit.
Giving my kids a college education was my gift to them. They’re not going to be paying me back, so it’s all the same to me if they choose fields that pay $50k or $500k. If they’re happy, I’m happy.
It’s like asking what is the ROI on a family trip to Paris or down the shore. There is no ROI, because that’s not the point.
Acknowledging that the diploma is worth something doesn’t mean that college is a commodity. The point the article is making, as several here have said, is that students and families are not “buying” the degree. They are buying the opportunity to get the education that the degree stands for. And that education isn’t handed to them–it’s not earned by signing the tuition checks; it’s earned by the effort the student makes to use the resources of the college to become educated.
"How do you justify that? If say, a new discovery in biology renders everything you learned about as a biology major false, how would that not diminish the value of your education? "
Not getting a job in X field does not “render everything you learned false,”. Learning and education are good things intrinsically regardless of whether they translate into more money in a paycheck. My life has been enriched by studying art history, French, etc even though I’ve not made one penny more at work because of it.
“Giving my kids a college education was my gift to them. They’re not going to be paying me back, so it’s all the same to me if they choose fields that pay $50k or $500k. If they’re happy, I’m happy.”
-You are NOT the only one who is paying. Kids spent 4 years of their lives - this is such a huge chunk that by all means cannot be ignored as part of the cost. It carries considerable opportunity cost. And spending that much of your life on college education better produce some positive (and not negative) results. It is very much with the economic concepts. Do you want to create a deficit in your life from getting college education or you want to considerably benenfit from it? There are many who actually in a hole by spending their 4 most important years at college. They are not productive members of society or they are greatly “under” productive. This truth cannot be ignored. And while we are using economics, the cost is not only in financial terms, while financial is very important as it could “buy” a person additional time.
Because of credentials inflation, a college degree today is what a high school diploma used to be. So, in that sense it has become a commodity.
Isn’t the reason that your daughter doesn’t have loans because you paid the full cost of med school out of pocket? It seems fairly easy to be debt free after college if your parents have a quarter of a million dollars that they can part with to pay for it.
"Isn’t the reason that your daughter doesn’t have loans because you paid the full cost of med school out of pocket? "
-yes, correct. You did not read my entire post. I said that the reason that we ALL (including our family) are paying is because we CHOOSE to pay. It was in response to your question why you are paying $250,000 for school. So, you basically, you ommitted my answer. The rest of my post was just to state some background for my answer.
There are ALWAYS options to pay or not. The ONLY reason to pay is to choose an option to pay. It is a free choice.
"It seems fairly easy to be debt free after college if your parents have a quarter of a million dollars that they can part with to pay for "
-Or, again, they CHOOSE to withdraw from their reitrement funds to supplement amount that they pay out of monthly income. Again, just a matter of free will. Many CHOOSE not to deep into retirement funds, some choose to do so. Some choose NOT to work after full retirement age, others CHOOSE to continue.
You will not find many here (there are few, probably) that " have a quarter of a million dollars that they can part with to pay for it " just lsomewhere in savings. Was not the case with us, for sure.
I agree with the original piece whole heartedly!
pizzagirl,
Why do you need to be "ad nauseum " when you can add me to “ignore list”. Apparently you CHOOSE to be “ad nauseum”. Then, what else do you want to read? I guess, we are supposed to state some imaginary experiences instead. Then, here you go, my D. did not do any of what I have stated, it was all big lie and I apologize for all inconveniences that it caused you. .