College list desperate for safeties for high stats kid with (past) discipline issues

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m asking help and ideas for the college list for my senior son. He is very smart but has had disciplinary issues in the past. He has got his act together during the past year and a half and is basically a good and enjoyable kid nowadays. But there are an expulsion and few suspensions in his record from two first years of the High School. He was not in any legal trouble, but the expulsion was because of the underage drinking incident and he has been suspended twice because of the physical altercations so they are not something, that would be easy to just brush away. He will be getting very good teachers and GC recommendations dealing also with these issues and his huge maturation after his sophomore year. </p>

<p>Son attends in a smallish rigorous private school. His GPA (school doesn’t weight) is 3,8 and he will have 7 APs. His class rank is around 8-9 %. His SAT score is 2350 (CR+M 1590) and he also did really well at his SAT IIs, Math II 800 and Chem 790. His ECs are not too impressive, varsity sport, club sport (not recruitable), being a lead singer and guitarist in the bad (they do practice in our garage so I have had amble auditory evidence about that) punk rock band, summer jobs, part-time job during senior year, some community service (your basic ‘helping at the soup kitchen’ kind.) His guidance counselor says that it will be difficult to predict how he will do in the admission process and recommends throwing in a wide net. Especially safeties are very difficult to find in this situation. </p>

<p>Kid is not at all sure what he wants to major in. Maybe math, but maybe psych or sociology. Or maybe something else. He is interested about becoming a PT so he will take prereqs for that (and when he is on at it, maybe also for med school.) Or maybe he wants to be a police officer or go to the military (well, that at least would be a traditional bath for boys like him.) You get the drill? Anyway, he does prefer smaller schools and LACs over big universities. Except if said university is cool somehow. We are from Virginia and we have found it hard to find any good in-state safeties for the kid. Or safeties at all.</p>

<p>DS understands that his safeties probably have to be bigger universities. The type of LACs that could be considered safeties (if there are any for him) are not good fit for him academically. It is especially so because he thrives when properly challenged and tends to slack when not. </p>

<p>His current (mostly safety free) list looks like this:
Super-hyper reaches:
Princeton (multigenerational legacy; mostly to appease Granddad)
Duke (also legacy)
Middlebury (He is in love with this one)
Williams</p>

<p>High reaches:
UVA
Carleton
Grinnell</p>

<p>Reaches:
Dickinson
Willamette
Colorado College</p>

<p>Fair chance:
Loyola
St. Olaf: (S likes a lot)</p>

<p>Safetish?
University of Colorado: Boulder (Snowboarding!)</p>

<p>As you can see, we certainly have a problem. We need to thin down the top and add to the bottom. Or find a good safety or two with the rolling admission that will take care of the safety side of things. For the safety we have been thinking about bigger schools. Not only because they are less likely to care his discipline record and unimpressive ECs (and like his scores a lot) but because we think he will more likely find challenging courses in a big safety than in a smaller, less selective school.</p>

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<p>UMich, UVM, UNH, Syracuse, Penn State</p>

<p>I went to Boulder years ago and I wouldn’t recommend for any kid who may have slacker tendencies. Very easy not to go to class, go skiing and party. I was there in the 70’s but know kids who have recently graduated and it hasn’t changed much.</p>

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<p>As an OOS parent who has looked at Virginia Schools, it seemed to me there were so many options for in-state students:</p>

<p>Virginia Tech
James Madison
Virginia Commonwealth
George Mason
University of Mary Washington
Christopher Newport</p>

<p>…would think that if disciplinary issues have been adequately explained and he’s turned himself around, he could get accepted to one of these schools? Thinking UMW in particular since its a smaller LAC type school.</p>

<p>also-if you are concerned about the temptation to slacking and partying, I don’t think Penn State would be a good fit. Its a heavy drinking school, and with large lectures (500+ students) he could easily slack.</p>

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<p>What about a large public that has a well regarded Honors college? With his gpa and test scores, he should get in and that would help make a big place smaller plus it would give him the ability to test the waters in all the different subject areas that interest him. They also tend to be generous with AP credit so he’d have more wiggle room to follow his muse. I’m familiar with University of Alabama because D1 goes there, but I’d also suggest looking at University of Pittsburgh, maybe Clemson & University of Arkansas.</p>

<p>And isn’t University of North Carolina-Asheville the public LAC in NC? Could that be the best of both worlds for him?</p>

<p>And since you mentioned PT and he’s into music, how about Belmont in TN?</p>

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<p>I am wondering if many of the Colleges that Change Lives schools would be safeties for your son. Many are smaller LACs.</p>

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<p>I try not to do this usually, but I think he should definitely check out Reed :)</p>

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<p>Maybe you realize the disciplinary question is on the common app and the student is honor bound to answer honestly. Colleges know kids do dumb things- they also know many hs have zero tolerance policies. BUT, how any college views your son’s particulars is really up to them. </p>

<p>In this case, I’d pick a college and have a frank talk with an adcom, maybe anonymously- or pick a similar college that’s not on his list. </p>

<p>Have you plotted out his ECs, to see what real strengths show through? Because the topmost schools are going to want to know he’s mature, well-rounded, with perspective and some sense of direction- and you describe him as being a bit uncertain. His competition will likely have clubs, academic competitions, leadership and more vol work/comm svc than just the “basic helping at the soup kitchen.”</p>

<p>I’m torn about suggesting Hampshire, in MA-</p>

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<p>Marist would be a safety…sort LAC-ish</p>

<p>Indiana University (Admission is pretty numbers driven. I was pleasantly surprised at how beautiful this campus was and how much this school looked like some of the typical Eastern schools.)</p>

<p>University of Vermont</p>

<p>SUNY Geneseo – The “Liberal Arts” college of the SUNY system. They say they’re NY’s public honors college. Tough for NYers to get in…much easier for out of state. Plenty of bright kids at this school.</p>

<p>Pitt (although…probably not a great choice since there are no other true urban schools on his list)</p>

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<p>Not really a safety, but I wonder if Bard might be a match? They’re not particularly sporty, there’s a thriving alternative music scene, and the culture might fit.</p>

<p>And kudos to him (and you) for the turnaround!</p>

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<p>I don’t think Willamette is a reach for him. My son had…issues…up until sophomore year, his credentials weren’t NEARLY as good, and I think they were VERY generous with him. Yes, he is URM, and they are apparently hard to come by in the PNW, but so are boys at LAC’s.</p>

<p>One thing I just remembered; my son had no suspensions after 8th grade, so for the common app, he did not have to report, but i believe Willamette, at least on their “priority” app, worded it such that ANY suspension ever, was to be reported</p>

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<p>What were his PSAT scores? Does he qualify for NMF? If so, he should add U Southern Calif. to his list, AND apply before the Dec 1 deadline in order to be eligible for scholarships, and cause he’ll be likely to find out if hes accepted in mid Feb. And USC IS considered to be cool these days.
Re: his discipline issues- will his current GC have nothing but positive things to say about your S? If so, then I think colleges will ignore, or at least put less weight on his past issues.</p>

<p>"For the safety we have been thinking about bigger schools. Not only because they are less likely to care his discipline record and unimpressive ECs (and like his scores a lot) but because we think he will more likely find challenging courses in a big safety than in a smaller, less selective school. "
Bingo! That’s why USC should be on his list.</p>

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<p>Miami of Ohio is a very good, mid-sized school.
Agree that some of the Colleges that Change Lives and LACs (smaller schools) in general will be more inclined to look at his app holistically…even pick up the phone and call the GC to ask questions. Your son clearly has very high academic potential and if he finds a smaller school that he really loves and demonstrates high interest in, and convinces the admissions folks that he’s a good risk, he might have a great outcome. One of these CTCL schools took a chance on my son, whose math grades were on the low side. He’d demonstrated strong interest by visiting, emailing with the admissions rep and coach, etc. The admissions guy asked for a written explanation from my son about his struggles in math–they wanted to hear it from him, not the GC. He was accepted ED and had an amazing college experience.</p>

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<p>I’m confused. His interests seem wide. If he thinks PT, then why not look for schools that include that as a major? Does he need financial aid? How would you feel if he was across the country? Would he benefit from a Core program, so he could see where his strengths lie?</p>

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<p>I’m looking for safeties, too. So, I’m interested in the suggestions that are posted. I like RobD’s suggestions of Alabama, Clemson and Arkansas. I think your son would qualify for scholarships at some of those schools. I’m going to look at them as well. </p>

<p>I agree with your thought that larger schools will not care as much about the discipline issues and I do think a school with an honors program will also be good. However, if the honors program requires LORs from teachers or the GC, will that be a problem. </p>

<p>Looking Forward makes a good point about the Common App asking about discipline issues. I have seen some schools that have their own apps. </p>

<p>I have heard that some honors colleges admit students by test scores, so that may work out for your son. Does anyone know?</p>

<p>Since your son goes to a private school does that mean that you’re not concerned about cost or do you have an annual budget in mind? If you have a budget, do you mind sharing what that will be?</p>

<p>"If he thinks PT, then why not look for schools that include that as a major? "</p>

<p>Is PT a major? I thought it was like pre-med and you take certain classes and then apply to grad school?</p>

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<p>Boulder is dicey in my humble opinion…out of 12 kids that we know that traveled there for college only one, maybe two has graduated from that school. Takes a pretty disciplined kid to survive the Boulder experience. Colorado College, University of Denver would be my picks for Colorado. Bard and Reed…maybe, but you haven’t given any indication that he has that vibe…a visit to both would be absolutely necessary and I can’t think of anyplace more different than Middlebury or Williams than Bard and Reed. Maybe look at Colby for a match and Hobart for a safety. My S2 who liked Middlebury and Williams also liked Colby and Hobart and University of Denver but didn’t like Colorado College’s block plan or location (Colorado Springs) and so far away from skiing although I like Colorado College and my S1 did also. St. Olaf is a wonderful college. A couple other “out there” midwest colleges for the safety list that have similar type kids and some degree of geographic diversity are Hillsdale in Michigan and Lake Forest in Chicago. Hillsdale doesn’t distribute federal aid but has good institutional aid and Lake Forest has great aid if that is a consideration.</p>

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<p>Ithaca College has PT as a major, might be worth a look.</p>

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<p>there is no preferred major for Physical Therapy. It’s just a list of courses similar to what pre-med kids take…with the addition of Anatomy and Physiology…so no need to choose a school just because it has a PT major.</p>

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<p>Okay, I understand being conservative and everything, but under what scenario are Williamette and Dickinson reaches for a student with these academic stats? I think they both have admit rates over 40% and 75% SAT in the mid to high 600s. I’d say they were matches.</p>

<p>Despite what one might think reading this website 2350 SATs don’t grow on trees.</p>

<p>And with those legacies I don’t know that I would even classify those high reaches as super dooper ultra high reaches, or whatever.</p>

<p>Is the worry because of the discipline?</p>

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<p>Looking4schools2: Alabama admits to the Honors College with a 28 or above ACT and a 3.5 or above gpa. No rec letters unless you decide to apply to 1 of the 2 selective honors programs (they have 4.) For UHP: [Honors</a> College - Apply](<a href=“http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=apply]Honors”>http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=apply) ; IHP: <a href=“http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/uploads/forms/Current%20Students/Snapshot%20of%20Policies%20and%20Procedures.pdf[/url]”>http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/uploads/forms/Current%20Students/Snapshot%20of%20Policies%20and%20Procedures.pdf&lt;/a&gt; ; CBHP (competitive) [Honors</a> College - Prospective Students](<a href=“http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=cbhp-prospective-students]Honors”>http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=cbhp-prospective-students) ; and University Fellows: [Honors</a> College - Prospective Students](<a href=“http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=ufe-prospective-students]Honors”>http://honors.cbhp.ua.edu/index.php?page=ufe-prospective-students)</p>

<p>Clemson isn’t automatic: <a href=“https://www.applyweb.com/apply/clemson/info_honors.html[/url]”>https://www.applyweb.com/apply/clemson/info_honors.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Arkansas looks like it’s automatic as well, but is administered through your major dept. [Admission</a> Requirements | Honors College | University of Arkansas](<a href=“http://honorscollege.uark.edu/69.php]Admission”>http://honorscollege.uark.edu/69.php)</p>

<p>M2CK is right about there not being a Physical Therapy undergraduate major, but Belmont has an excellent PT graduate program & a pre-PT undergraduate fellowship program: [Undergraduate</a> Fellowship Program - School of Physical Therapy - Belmont University](<a href=“http://www.belmont.edu/pt/pre-pt/index.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.belmont.edu/pt/pre-pt/index.html) That coupled with the amazing vibe of their Music majors made me think of Belmont for the OP.</p>

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<p>*Is the worry because of the discipline? *</p>

<p>I think that is the worry. I think that if it was just the underage drinking, the concern might be less, but the physical altercations may scare these schools away.</p>

<p>I think much will depend on how the school reports these issues on the GC report and how the student reports these issues on his apps. It can get dicey. the student has to own the situations, not try to dismiss them, and also indicate that he’s turned over a new leaf. </p>

<p>Some safety schools do not require LORs or GC reports so perhaps some of those schools should be considered.</p>