<p>Ricky, no you’re not biased; that’s the correct logical way of looking at it. The medical field is very profitable and is here to stay, despite the sorry situation of the economy. What I recommend though is a fall back major in case you don’t get into medschool since it’s so competitive these days. Maybe something like computer science or some other engineering field( EE, biomed e, etc). Biochem is good too. Don’t do general bio; it is not useful in finding a job and is actually very generic in med school’s eyes. A lot of people say these majors are hard and will hurt their chances in applying to medschool. I’d say, if you are indeed smart enough to do well enough on the mcat, you can probably do well in these majors too-with maybe just a slightly lower gpa.</p>
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<p>Glad we can agree. They do consider operating with a risk at or greatly above 1%.</p>
<p>You do realize that if everybody got an engineering degree, that it would be virtually worthless, right? And that there are out of work engineers? Nothing is foolproof (which is what I’m pretty sure you meant by “full proof”.)</p>
<p>You’re obviously just here to argue.</p>
<p>Ricky93, the reason is that not everyone is capable of pursuing a career in medicine. There certainly isn’t enough spots for one thing, likewise for engineering, business etc. High schools do such a pitiful job preparing people for such degrees, and no, not everyone has an affinity for STEM, just as many math majors I know are quite limited at writing. In addition, a “fallback major” in a largely separate field like engineering-premed would require totally different classes and likely over 4 years to finish. No one i know has the time for both engineer and premed.</p>
<p>If you consider the top schools, according to Forbes they on average offer 10% APR return on investment, and that’s for those who are full pay. I think quite clearly it’s worth attending, although I agree that it’s also a gamble. So what should be done about it? Tax the rich to make college affordable? Shut down some of the less fruitful colleges or majors or not offer loans to students who pursue them? I don’t know, what’s your suggestion, or is this just arguing for sake of doing so?</p>
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<p>If you had $100,000 in the bank right now, what would you do with it? Invest it and maybe lose due to a downturn, put it in the bank and lose money every year due to inflation, or just stow it under your mattress?</p>
<p>No princess, I’m not here just to argue. I serious believe that everyone should be extra cautious. That is all. When I say fullproof, I mean that you should have high chances, that is all. Nowhere did I say that you should have 100% chance of success. Such a thing doesn’t exist, obviously.</p>
<p>You know my suggestion steel. Don’t go to college unless you know you have an affinity for something profitable, hence having a good chance of success. It’s that really so hard to comprehend? </p>
<p>No everyone, I’m not trolling you. I make valid points. No one, except maybe for racinreaver have even addressed them. </p>
<p>Racinreaver, I would keep the money in a bank account while working a job to pay for rent, food, gas etc. If, on my free time, I have discovered a strong affinity to a particular area that is profitable, and have obtained great knowledge of it, then and only then will I consider investing.</p>
<p>@ JeSuis, and what’s your point? Not going to college isn’t a grave situation. You can still make decent money. Even if you make low wages, without crushing debt, you can still get by in life. Maybe you don’t know the severity of a failed college investment. Understandable, you are still a kid. I’ve have friends that took out heavy debt for college and got low paying jobs or unemployed afterwards. It’s not pretty, one of them has a very very hard time enjoying life because food, rent, gas, loans consume all of his income. He opined that college is the worst choice of his life. Another one of my friends gave up looking for jobs altogether and plays video games all day; can’t say that’s good for his credit. Another one of them became a depressed drug addict; this one is really sad, his inability to make money has caused his to take up drugs, something that pushed everyone away from him, including his longtime girlfriend. These people are all examples of how college can completely ruin your life.</p>
<p>The point is, if you invest heavily in college and it fails, you are screwed. So screwed, you won’t even comprehend it at first. But then it finally sinks in and your life is ruined. </p>
<p>@racinreaver, how much inflation are we talking about? I don’t think it makes much of a difference. The certainty of losing a little bit is better than the possibility of losing a huge amount. </p>
<p>@princess, I don’t want everyone go for an engineering degree. I don’t think enough people are going to read this thread to make a big difference. But even if I can prevent one person from walking down the wrong path, I would be a happier person.</p>
<p>I actually have more concrete suggestion. Go to community college, it’s cheap. If you can’t find anything profitable that your good at, so what? you didn’t lose that much time and money. If you found that you are good at something profitable, transfer to a 4 year university. This is a simple solution to the problem. A practical concrete solution that everyone’s been asking me for.</p>
<p>JeSuis: “Actually, doctors sometimes do operate with a risk of 1% or greater.”</p>
<p>Equipotential: "And what’s your point? Not going to college isn’t a grave situation. You can still make decent money. Even if you make low wages, without crushing debt, you can still get by in life. Maybe you don’t know the severity of a failed college investment. Understandable, you are still a kid. I’ve have friends that took out heavy debt for college and got low paying jobs or unemployed afterwards. It’s not pretty, one of them has a very very hard time enjoying life because food, rent, gas, loans consume all of his income. He opined that college is the worst choice of his life. Another one of my friends gave up looking for jobs altogether and plays video games all day; can’t say that’s good for his credit. Another one of them became a depressed drug addict; this one is really sad, his inability to make money has caused his to take up drugs, something that pushed everyone away from him, including his longtime girlfriend. These people are all examples of how college can completely ruin your life.</p>
<p>The point is, if you invest heavily in college and it fails, you are screwed. So screwed, you won’t even comprehend it at first. But then it finally sinks in and your life is ruined."</p>
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<p>Not necessarily biased, but definitely an entitled underachiever and an unfocused wheel spinner. </p>
<p>If you always think inside the box and only follow instructions from everybody else, and never bend the rules and find a unique niche for yourself and CRUSH anyone who attempts to trespass on that niche, then you will always be AVERAGE. Just another number in the system. Someone who will never be in the upper pantheon of high class society. Someone disposable at the drop of the hat. Even if you study medicine. You sound like someone who would be lucky to be an average doctor. Just go in, do your work, and get out. You are disposable. Hope your happy seeing other doctors start out at the same level as you and then get promoted as you constantly stay at the same level, ambition-less workhorse.</p>
<p>Jesuis, they will only operate if a grave consequence will happen otherwise. I thought u were using that as an analogy to say that if you don’t go to college, a grave consequence will happen. That is the correct way to address the main point of this thread. I didn’t know you would contribute nothing. Thank you for your useless input.</p>
<p>I fed him. Sorry, everyone.</p>
<p>Nicely argued. I concede.</p>
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<p>Keep in mind that there’s a finite amount you can lose while there’s, technically, an infinite amount you can gain from investing.</p>
<p>What sort of crushing debt do your friends have that they can’t make any bill payments? If it’s so extreme, then they obviously made a poor choice in getting into that debt in the first place. There is a large difference between being $100,000 in debt with a college degree and $15,000 in debt for the same thing, versus zero dollars and no college degree.</p>
<p>Go to a good school and get a real degree, problem solved</p>
<p>@RacinReaver. True but at the same time, the finite amount that you could lose could very well be the basics you need to get by in life. The infinite amount you can gain is just luxury. </p>
<p>If you have a life where you spend half of it extremely dirt poor( food stamps, no computer, no phone, no bed to live on, the resultant stress& frustration. the whole shabang) and the other half ridiculously rich( billionare status, endless cars, and yes even the ensuing pride & happniness), can you honestly say that your quality of life over your life span is as good as that of a average income, or heck, even your average low income person? I think you will say no. Fact is, there are diminishing returns in happiness gained from gaining additional wealth. In in a sense, it’s the opposite. When investing, you can lose an infinite amount while only gaining a finite amount. You can’t just look at the mere dollar amount. </p>
<p>Of course there’s a caveat in what I stated above. If you have EXTRA money and make a bad investment, you only lose the mere dollar amount. But that’s been my point the whole time, if you have extra money, or can get grants, then by all means go to college for the fluff major. If not, keep your money, you might need it on a rainy day; or you can take out loans for something you know you’re good at and is highly marketable. </p>
<p>Those friends took out loans of 60K plus. That’s a lot of money for something that, in their case, doesn’t pay off. You’re right, taking out 15K isn’t that bad. I don’t consider that a huge loss, just a pain. 15k with a unmarketable degree might be preferable to 0 dollars and no degree since there’s a 50% chance you’ll get more in return. But around 15 to 20K is where I draw the line. Anymore is foolish unless you’re doing something like computer engineering. It seems we agree on this point.</p>
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<p>You probably should have mentioned that in your OP instead of just saying not to go to college</p>
<p>But sometimes, living an average, stable life might be better than living a highly unstable lifestyle…</p>
<p>Believe it or not, there are fields of work that reward the ones who cannot think outside the box and just follow instructions, while punishing risk-takers… I think aviation (air traffic control in particular) is one.</p>
<p>barrk, I’ve never said outright to not go to college. I’ve only said to not take excessive risks regarding college and that too many people in college are taking these risks, possibly at their peril.</p>
<p>1) Maybe 50% out from graduation they won’t be able to find a job, but if you’re willing to work at it, eventually you will find something in some months or so. I can understand we’re in a recession but at the end of your life, you can make more than the average high school grad if you’re willing to sustain and work hard.</p>
<p>2) Employers aren’t willing to you pay so and so grand because you have a piece of paper. They’re willing to pay you because of you, that’s theirs something of you that’s worth the $50 grand they need.</p>
<p>3) A degree will make a difference passing the HR screening. In a pile of hundreds of resumes, HR screens out ones with no degrees.</p>
<p>4) Usually you cannot get any kind of promotion without a degree.</p>
<p>5) It’s NOT THE PAPER, it’s YOU!</p>
<p>I know this is really late, but this is how I’m feeling. Why even waste the time? According to many people in these forums, half the degrees people are going for (even in the hard sciences) aren’t worth the money because of job outlooks so why not just let people who want to be doctors and lawyers go and the rest of us find other work…Saves us time, headache, stress and money.</p>