<p>I live in the west coast, the bay area to be more exact, and Berkeley has the hugest "hype" here. People turn down Stanford for Berkeley...On the other hand, few have heard of W&M. It's very difficult to get unbiased advice. I'm interested in pursuing international relations. I definitely want to go to grad school. Money is not an issue. W&M gave me a very generous financial package, so even though I'm out of state, I'll be able to afford W&M. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>Although I don’t know much about Berkeley’s program, W&M’s IR program is well known here in the DC area. One of my D’s best friends (they are juniors) is in IR and has had many research and travel experiences through the school and the alumni network.
She’s a real go-getter but what she has achieved is impressive.</p>
<p>Probably the wrong week to look for replies from current students, so I’ll hazard a response.</p>
<p>And I’m not sure how you’ll do on non-biased advice, but I’ll do my best … :)</p>
<p>Since you’re set on grad school, you realize that your undergrad is preparatory in the sense that you’ll want a broad-based education not only in “IR”, but history, a foreign language or two, economics, religion, philosophy, literature, cultures, developing writing skills and so on - in short, your classic “Liberal Arts” curriculum, which is what W&M offers and excels in.</p>
<p>Its undergraduate IR program is certainly well-respected - how it “ranks”, I have no idea, but I doubt you’ll be disappointed in the quality it offers.</p>
<p>Study-abroad is integral, but I don’t think that’s all that unusual these days.</p>
<p>I think where you’ll fit best is, well, where you fit best. W&M is a relatively small college, in a suburban island, surrounded by a rural setting. It feels smaller than it is, and to me, it exudes an aura of history, (I sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed, when I think I may be walking where Thomas Jefferson once walked, and I always tread lightly in the Wren, not wanting to disturb any sleeping ghosts), and of learning, and intellect. I love its trees, and the way the college seems to embrace and incorporate nature into the campus (naturally, I prefer the “Ancient Campus.”) At the same time, it feels friendly, a bit left-of-center, and seems to embrace and encourage mild forms of quirkiness. I can’t say much about the “Peoples Republic of Berkeley” 
- their reputation doesn’t need <em>me</em> to speak for it. Personally, I’d not pass on Stanford to go there, except for financial reasons. But it’s a far larger school, and likely, a far different environment. Which suits you best, only you can decide. </p>
<p>But that’s just “me” - Stanford / Palo Alto feel more comfortable to me than Berkeley - again, that’s just “me”. As a Virginia resident, Stanford would be appealing because it would likely be very different from “home” (though I’ve lived in California.) You, on the other hand, might enjoy experiencing the differences between the Bay Area and the East Coast. But, if you like to spend a lot of time in big cities, the nearest is DC, and that’s 3 hours away, not exactly an afternoon jaunt. But from there, the whole East Coast is open to you, Philadelphia and New York, for example. But as I say, those aren’t day trips - you’ll have to be comfortable in little ol’ Williamsburg, day-in, and day-out. Anyway, I know plenty of W&M students who’ve passed on Ivy and similar tier schools, for various reasons, (including financial) - but many/most just felt they’d “fit” better at W&M than those other schools.</p>
<p>Getting into grad school is not a problem, at least, in the sense that any grad school admissions office will certainly know and appreciate the W&M curriculum and students. They <em>know</em> of W&M.</p>
<p>It’s probably not even fair to mention this – but the one area I might have reservations might be if you were oriented to Hispanic studies - from what I gather, it sounds pretty politically charged, and more oriented towards “South American Revolutionary Movements” than nation studies, culture or language. Please note, that’s a “just what I heard” kind of thing, and may not be remotely accurate. </p>
<p>Overall, I’ve heard many people say that it’s among the best, if not <em>the</em> best, undergradute IR program extant in the U.S. So, I don’t think you’ll lack for challenge or for opportunities here.</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry for the ramble, hope it’s of some use to you. Good luck, whatever you decide.</p>
<p>William and Mary’s not a bad school, but it has a fairly major Greek/drinking scene in a way that I really don’t think Berkeley does. (Maybe less pot, though.) Lots of my friends went there (like 10), and now I’m like “Hey! How’s it going” on Wednesday at like 8:00 and they (freshmen, mostly Greek) are all like “boozeeeeeeee i has it.” Not so good. Berkeley will also have a greater variety of kids in terms of location and background. On the other hand, my sample of kids at William and Mary is pretty small.</p>
<p>Lirazel, just so you know, you are probably the first person who has ever described W&M as having a major Greek or drinking scene. I guarantee that the vast majority of W&M students are not drinking on Wednesdays. Obviously some do though.</p>
<p>At W&M you will learn from professors. All the classes, even intro level, are taught by professors. Sometimes they are taught by department chairs. I don’t know if the same can be said for Berkeley. W&M has a top notch IR program and many valuable resources including:
[William</a> & Mary - W&M in Washington Program<a href=“semester%20or%20summer%20in%20DC”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“http://irtheoryandpractice.wm.edu/projects/plaid/]Institute”>http://irtheoryandpractice.wm.edu/projects/plaid/]Institute</a> for the Theory and Practice of International Relations | PLAID (Project-Level Aid)<a href=“a%20program%20where%20undergraduates%20have%20contributed%20significantly”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“http://irtheoryandpractice.wm.edu/projects/PIPS/]Institute”>The Project on International Peace and Security | William & Mary]Institute</a> for the Theory and Practice of International Relations | PIPS (Project on International Peace and Security)<a href=“an%20undergraduate%20think%20tank”>/url</a>
<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/sites/dcsummerinstitutes/prospective/institutes/index.php[/url]”>http://www.wm.edu/sites/dcsummerinstitutes/prospective/institutes/index.php](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/sites/wmindc/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/sites/wmindc/index.php)</a> (Summer Security Institute)</p>
<p>Hey, Soccerguy, I notice that the heading above Summer Security Institute reads “For 2010, the DC Summer Institutes Are…” Do the programs change year by year, and if so, are there always at least one government/IR related? I too am planning on being a IR major at W&M. Also, how selective are admissions to the “summer institute” and “W&M in Washington” programs?</p>
<p>The Summer Security Institute is always, well, national security based (meaning IR) with different courses and internships.</p>
<p>There are quite a few summer internships and institutes available through W&M, and they are largely self selective. Some have a minimum GPA of 3.3 or other limiting factors, but if you apply you have a decent shot at making most. </p>
<p>And yes, W&M IR is one of the best for undergraduate studies with tons of connections in DC. There are special internships that have been set up with NATO and various government agencies just for W&M students.</p>
<p>These internships and the awesome faculty help students get into some of the best IR grad schools, although, these days many of the top ones (especially the Kennedy School) require some work experience. In that case, the DC connections help students get great jobs at the World Bank, government agencies, and consulting firms. The department head is a fan of hosting barbecues, so many students often find themselves at his home with lots of other professors, students, and staff.</p>
<p>And to help with the problem of friends out west not having heard of it, you could say “it was the one founded between Harvard and Yale.”</p>
<p>Goodluck with your decision!</p>
<p>Don’t want to pull your chain Lirazel but I just watched a story this weekend regarding UC Berkley and how wild it is with regard to drinking and the Greek scene. In fact the story said that neighbors are suing to get it under control and several frats have hired lawyers. “The lawsuit, which names the Interfraternity Council and 35 fraternities belonging to the Berkeley campus as defendants, argues that area homeowners have been “subjected to illegal and injurious conduct” by its members for over two decades.” I searched the net and here is the link to the story first published in January: [Southside</a> Neighbors File Lawsuit Against University Fraternities. Category: Page One from The Berkeley Daily Planet - Thursday January 21, 2010](<a href=“Southside Neighbors File Lawsuit Against University Fraternities. Category: Page One from The Berkeley Daily Planet”>Southside Neighbors File Lawsuit Against University Fraternities. Category: Page One from The Berkeley Daily Planet). They also had a story regarding Georgetown (some guy is taping the wild parties) as well.</p>
<p>Every school has drinking and if that is what your “thing is” then you’ll find it.</p>
<p>Sort of thread drift but I too, have to echo the sentiment…WM is not all greek and surely not all drinking. One cannot attend and drink all the time and maintain grades. The school is too difficult. Not to say there aren’t plenty of drinking but everything seems to be at a managed level.</p>
<p>Obviously, the choice between WM and Berkley has to come down to what the OP wants in a campus atmosphere. Opposites in so many ways.</p>
<p>If you want to go outside your comfort zone and have an adventure, choose a path different from most of your peers going to the state U. W&M is a unique place where students have been thriving since 1693. Good luck.</p>
<p>Uebermensch - I don’t think the semester or summer in DC is that difficult to get into. It’s kind of like study abroad… only in DC. The security institute might be slightly more difficult, but I honestly don’t know. The PIPS program looks very competitive (each of the students has a resume linked from the website), they all have over a 3.7, and some of them in the 3.9+ range.</p>
<p>As someone interested in IR, W&M is a potential great match especially given our proximity to DC. Not only do our students have amazing opportunities in DC (internships and the semester in DC program) but W&M is great about bringing DC politicos and scholars to campus to speak and engage with students. From Henry Kissinger to the Taiwanese ambassadors, many dignitaries and scholars have visited campus.</p>
<p>Additionally, as someone interested in grad school, W&M offers the ability to engage in undergraduate research (70% of students participate) which can be a major plus on grad school applications.</p>
<p>Finally, to echo some other sentiments, W&M is generally not perceived as a party/Greek-dominated school. Under 1/3 of W&M students are Greek so it’s a sizable minority but a minority nonetheless. The Greek system is just one of hundreds of ways to get involved on campus and those who aren’t Greek have no shortage of social opportunities.</p>
<p>New update: I just got a full ride to Berkeley. If I went to W&M, I would need to take out 10-15 k a year in loans…My decision just got that much more complicated. :/</p>
<p>No, your decision just got very easy: go to Berkeley! I’m a student at W&M and love it here but you should never take out 40K-60K worth of loans for an undergraduate education, especially when you have a full-ride to an amazing school. Be financially responsible, go to Berkeley and don’t look back.</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, if I recall correctly, don’t colleges require a deposit by May 1? Isn’t it kind of late for them to be giving you a scholarship?</p>
<p>I’m a transfer student from a CC. So it would only be 20-30 k for two years. The deposit for Berkeley isn’t due 'til June 1st.</p>
<p>if you can graduate from Berkeley without debt, I would do that.</p>
<p>This is very cool: [William</a> & Mary - William & Mary and St Andrews to offer joint degree program](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2010/st-andrews-123.php]William”>William & Mary and St Andrews to offer joint degree program | William & Mary)</p>
<p>One more reason why prospective IR majors should consider going to W&M.</p>
<p>I wonder if current students can apply for this? My son will be a freshman this fall, he is so excited about W&M. He had some wonderful choices, we are sure he made the right one for him!</p>
<p>Unfortunately current students (including new freshmen) cannot apply for the joint degree program. It will be open to the members of the Class of 2015.</p>