@coffeeaddicted “She often compares me to other high school/college students at our church”
How many of them had a 35 ACT and 5s on their AP exams?
Physics is a subject where you can teach the same topic on many different levels. At a top college, A lot more advanced math will probably be required. You with learn a more complex/sophisticated explanation because the students there can keep up.
@coffeeaddicted “She seems to think that every conservative goes to a lower-tier college and does just as well in their career”
How can they know what they may have accomplished if they went somewhere else?
Part of their concern may also be that religious conservatives highly value unquestioning faith. In contrast, scientists challenge everything and expect evidence. As your critical thinking skills develop in science classes, you may have some questions that they may be uncomfortable with. For example, you may learn and verify for yourself that the earth really is billions of years old, or that evolution is a fact. The evidence is clear and overwhelming.
At any college with a decent physics department, a lot more advanced math will be required (calculus 1, 2, and 3, linear algebra, differential equations) and recommended (real and complex analysis, abstract algebra).
Just leave politics and religion out of it. You should not proactively or pre-emptively mention anything about these subjects. Prepare some responses in case THEY bring it up. But you should approach it like 99% of students – just focus on the best academic fit and the financial aid potential. Show them the USNWR ranking of colleges.
Here’s another thought: If your parents aren’t providing much or any financial support for college, does it matter if they approve or not?
None of the schools on your list, except Swarthmore, strike me off-hand as particularly known for being heavily left-leaning. There will be a lot of liberals, for sure; young people and professors are both more inclined to be liberal than the population at large. But I’d suggest going to the site called Niche and scrolling down, under Diversity, to the section on student polls. It’s not exactly scientific but’ll give you a sense of how students feel about the political atmosphere on campus. Colby students, for instance, come out as 29 percent moderate and 11 percent conservative or very conservative. Princeton is described as 45 percent moderate and 10 percent conservative or very conservative. Clearly, you’d have no shortage of fellow students at either place who share your views – and even your parents’ views, unless they’re young earth creationists whose secret wish is for you to go to Liberty. (Swarthmore student self-describe their peers as 0 percent conservative or very conservative, so there definitely are more left-leaning schools, but most on your list are just not like that.)
Also all colleges will have Christian student groups of all stripes. On that same page (Niche / Diversity), it says that at Princeton, 14 percent of students consider religion to be so important they participate in the student religious groups, another 14 percent attend services regularly, and 29 percent think religion is at least somewhat important and sometime attend services. So over half of all students at Princeton practice their faith. Not exactly a bastion of some stereotypical “war on religion.”
FWIW my son is a self-described “socialist” but it’s been important to him to find a diversity of views, so we’ve spent a lot of time looking at political breakdowns on various campuses and trying to get a sense of what colleges are liberal to left (which he prefers) but also genuinely tolerant to a variety of views. It’s an interesting and educational hunt.
@coffeeaddicted - It sounds like “Choosing the Right College 2014-2015” edited by John Zmirak and published by ISIBooks would be a helpful resource for your family. It is available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon and the publishers website. The book has been around for a while, is updated every two years, and is a college guide written from conservative perspective.
The teaching and administrative staff on modern college campuses will be overwhelmingly liberal. The key is to find school that promotes freedom of speech and respects debate. A school like the University of Chicago, whose faculty is likely as liberal as any other, gets a strong recommendation from this conservative college guide. Other schools that impinge on free speech don’t.
@brantly, the parents have to cooperate with FAFSA and CSS Profile for the OP to get need based aid. So she does need them on board.
OP, Mudd and UChicago both “meet need” – and sometimes colleges do preferential packaging (provide better aid) to students they want the most. As a URM with great credentials, that could be you. And my kid got better aid from UChicago than some of the other schools discussed here.
@ucbalumnus@Much2learn my dad is a scientist who takes Genesis symbolically and I’m not sure if my mom takes it literally (my mom clearly cares more about the political spectrum of a college than my dad does). And yes one of the main reasons they want me to go to a public in state college is they’re deterred by the sticker price of private colleges (despite my telling them about need based aid and how much we would receive). And yeah none of the high schoolers at our church are as academically focused as I am, which is why it’s frustrating to be compared to them and their college choices. And yeah lol @Much2learn I’m Presbyterian.
@brantly@intparent regardless of where I go, they’ve hinted they will probably be able to give 10k-15k for each of the first two years and around 5k for the second two (where I overlap with my sister). Most of our EFC’s (not counting what would be covered by work/loans) average between 20-30k for the colleges on my list. I intend to work during the year and summer, and take out loans, which I’ve heard can often be deferred through grad school.
@Zinhead@MomOnALaptop thanks for the resources. If they bring up politics and want proof, I’ll show them.
I have some relatives who grew up in conservative evangelical Christian households. One uncle insisted that his children follow their moral compass and go to schools that are welcoming of evangelical Christians and would not force feed things like evolution, liberal theology or abortion rights. So this uncle’s children ended up at schools like Purdue, Baylor and RIT and studied business, applied sciences or engineering so they could generally avoid the political debate at college. Cocooned from skeptics, they are incurious young people who really never have engaged in the world around them.
Uncle No. 2, equally conservative and evangelical, wanted his children to get the best education they could get, so his children went to Macalester, Swarthmore, and Williams despite their liberal leanings. When I saw them recently at a family reunion over the holidays, I would say, first, that they are all still conservative and Christian as ever. And they confirmed that they are pretty out-numbered at their schools. But interestingly, they were much more in love with their schools (the one at Swat wants to work for the college after he graduates) than their big University cousins, and they were very interesting, engaged people–willing to debate and argue for their positions. Their educations have firmed up and made them more confident in their beliefs rather than eroded them.
If you are looking at a $25,000-40,000 net prices (based on $20,000-30,000 EFC plus typical student loan and work study amounts), but your parents will only contribute $10,000-15,000 for two years, followed by $5,000 for two years, your cost constraints will have to shape your application list. Realistically, you can only take $5,500 in loans the first year without a cosigner (increasing to $7,500 the last two years). Part time work earnings during school plus summer job earnings are realistically estimated to be at most $5,000 per year (and usually less). Budget, not politics, will be your main constraint on where you go to college.
What state universities are there in your state, and how much are their net prices?
For merit scholarships, you can check these lists:
So basically, your parents can’t afford your EFC? If they are not willing to sign loans for you, then how will you pay?
I think you should also apply to schools where you can receive a guaranteed full tution award and to schools where you can compete for a very large merit award.
I don’t think any of these schools give merit aid. However, with a 35 ACT, the OP should able to get some very strong offers from a wide variety of ranked schools. A quick way to filter for merit aid is Kiplinger’s website. Just sort for schools that offer non-need based aid:
I’ve run the net price calculators on as many colleges as I can, and filtered out the ones I would never be able to afford. I know I would be able to afford a college where the EFC is close to 20k (for me Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Bowdoin, and swarthmore are looking to cost around that much and are my top choices), and my parents are certainly willing to co sign for loans. The other colleges on my list where our EFC is closer to 30k I’m applying to for the chance that a) they could turn out to give more need based aid than expected and b) my parents would be able to pay more than they’ve “estimated” (they’ve been unwilling to have serious conversations about paying for college, partially because they think it’s too early and partially because of the political standing of the colleges).
After college and grad school, I fully intend to get a PHD, which will enable me to obtain a job that provides me the means to pay off what loans I accumulate (which, again, can be deferred). I’ve thought a lot about this career choice, the amount of work it would require, and how I would go about it and know it is the right choice for me.
My concern is getting my parents on my side and preventing the political standing of colleges from being a barrier, so that we can have legitimate conversations about paying for college and so that I can finalize my list. It looks like this should be a relative non-issue for me.
If all else fails, I will attend my state flagships (UF), which I know I can afford; however I would want more than anything to go out of state, up north specifically, to a small college or top-tier research university where I will be surrounded by peers with similar ambition and passion for scientific research.
Parent cosigned student loans are a bad idea for both the parent and student. Also, since you have a younger sibling, you do not want your parents to stretch their household finances to the maximum, since having to drop out part way through due to running out of money, or having your younger sibling resent you for taking all of the college money your parents can give, would not be a good thing.
PhD in physics does not guarantee a job in physics research, due to the surplus of PhD graduates relative to the number of research (and academic) jobs in the subject. However, physics graduates’ quantitative skills often do allow them to enter computing or finance jobs.
@ucbalumnus I would likely be able to transfer 60 credit hours from my AP exams and dual enrollment courses, and forego the summer session requirement.
And like I said, at a college like HYP/Swarthmore/Bowdoin they wouldn’t have to cosign any loans. It is an option they’d be willing to take if necessary.
And I know that after a PHD I will have to fight for postdocs and faculty positions. I’ve factored this into my decision making. My supervisor at the lab where I was hired has said I work as well as a grad student and has trusted me with large portions of the data analysis for the experiment I’m working on. If I continue to improve and work hard during college and my career I know I’ll get a job.
Lehigh is a very strong school especially in sciences and engineering, it offers merit up to full tuition and is very generous with need money. I am very familiar with it politically and it would very much tilt conservative. It also has tremendous school spirit and great rivalries.
Lehigh undergrad would serve you very well going forward.
Is it possible that your parents’ politics-based objections to more expensive colleges are a smokescreen because they do not want to directly tell you that your college choices will be limited by cost constraints? You have not mentioned them pushing you to conservative or heavily religious schools (which are private and may be expensive compared to in-state publics), so it could be that the (lack of) money is the real limitation you are facing.
@ucbalumnus like I’ve said, they’re unwilling to talk about college (mainly my mom). Last year I mentioned wanting to go to an Ivy (I used to be a semi-prestige hound) and she directly shot my suggestion down solely upon the typical political standing of the Ivy League. I sat down with her a couple months ago and ran the net price calculator for Williams and she was impressed with how much aid they give, even though it isn’t quite in our range. So the problem doesn’t lie with them knowing I won’t be able to afford any of these colleges (they would never have done the research to figure this out for themselves)–the problem lies with them not wanting to talk about it.
And again, as I’ve said, they’ve never let me know how much they’ll be able to help me financially. I’ve been asking them more often recently but they appear miffed at my desires to attend a private out of state college, again for the (you guessed it) political standing, and the idea that I might become a snob.
I’m most afraid that, because of the political standing of these colleges and their preconceptions from the sticker prices, they’ll refuse to hear me out about them and undermine my efforts to make attendance at one possible.