<p>It should also be noted with the recentered comparison that the primary shifting is at the mean score. The shift is, according to official conversion tables, much less at the high ends (something like no change for an 800 in the new tests compared to the old).</p>
<p>Pomona definitely hasn't fallen. It's currently the most selective liberal arts college. Definitely a "hot" school.</p>
<p>With respect to UIUC falling (post #80), I think it might have something to do with the percentage of people taking the SAT vs. the ACT.</p>
<p>I read in my statistics book that the mean SAT score in the Midwest is higher than any other place in the country because mainly the people interested in competitive, out-of-state colleges take the SAT as opposed to the ACT. So the better group of people take the SAT, whereas in a place like Connecticut all college-bound people take the SAT.</p>
<p>I think the SAT has become more popular vs. the ACT since 1966 in the midwest. I think this may have pushed down the average SAT score of UIUC.</p>
<p>I disagree, actually, I believe that more Midwest students take the ACT now than the SAT. Back in the "olden day" more colleges in the midwest required the SAT. I believe the ACT is actually "gaining strength" against the SAT as more and more colleges take either or.The ACT is required for graduation at my kids school starting next year. Only a handful of the now graduated seniors applying to eastern schools and a few California schools took the SAT. The closest SAT testing sight was an hour away.</p>
<p>I can say with, um, lots of confidence that the average SAT score has little to do with the quality of the school at this level.</p>
<p>average SAT of student body shows how competitive the students who attend the school are, which is a function of how strong the school is in my opinion</p>
<p>
[quote]
I tried finding similar scores for Swarthmore, Pomona and Williams and they were hidden in places on their websites where I did not have the time to look.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Swarthmore's median composite SAT for the Class of 2010 was 1440. Average was 1407.</p>
<p>The average dropped about 20 points from the prior few years, presumably because they have gone extremely heavy on minority acceptances. 12% black and 11% Latino in the enrolled freshman class. Interestingly, the median did not change.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can say with, um, lots of confidence that the average SAT score has little to do with the quality of the school at this level.
[/quote]
It just has to do with the quality of the student body.</p>
<p>"at this level" - key words, since all the top schools are in competition for the best students</p>
<p>Traditionally, a lot of states outside the Northeast have bragged about their high median SAT scores when those scores were merely reflective of the fact that test-takers in those states were kids aiming at competive out of state schools. Across the board, the demographic profile of SAT takers has steadily gone down as the percentage of high school graduates who go to college has gone up (vastly).</p>
<p>Years U.S. educational institutions became coeducational</p>
<p>1860 University of Wisconsin-Madison
1867 DePauw University
Indiana University
1868 University of Iowa Law School
1869 Northwestern University
Ohio University
1870 Michigan State University
University of Michigan
Washington University in St. Louis
1871 Pennsylvania State University
1872 Wesleyan University (Until 1912, when it became all male once again.)
1876 University of Pennsylvania
1877 Ohio Wesleyan University
1878 Hope College
1883 Bucknell University
Middlebury College
1885 University of Mississippi
1888 George Washington University
Tulane University Pharamaceutical School
University of Kentucky
1892 Auburn University
1893 Macalester College
University of Connecticut
Johns Hopkins University Graduate School
University of Alabama
University of Tennessee
1894 Boalt Hall
1895 University of Pittsburgh
University of South Carolina
1897 University at Buffalo Law School
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (graduate students)
1900 University of Virginia (nursing only)
1902 Miami University
1909 Tulane University School of Dentistry
1914 Tulane University Medical School
University of Pennsylvania Medical School
1918 College of William and Mary
University of Georgia
1920 University of Virginia (graduate students)
1922 Northeastern University School of Law
1930 Roanoke College
1931 Seattle University
1942 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Wake Forest University
1946 James Madison University (de facto)
1947 Florida State University
University of Florida
1952 Lincoln University
1953 Georgia Tech
1953 Harvard Law School
1963 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (all programs)
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
1964 Texas A&M University
1964 University of San Francisco
1966 James Madison University (official)
1968 Virginia Tech
1969 Connecticut College
Franklin and Marshall College
Georgetown University
Kenyon College
La Salle University
MacMurray College
Princeton University
Siena Heights University
Trinity College (Connecticut)
University of the South
Vassar College
Yale University
1970 Boston College
Colgate University
Johns Hopkins University
Rutgers University
University of Mary Washington
University of Virginia (all programs)
1971 Brown University
Skidmore College
1972 Davidson College
Dartmouth College
Harvard College - Harvard University
Radford University
Texas Woman's University
University of Notre Dame
Washington and Lee University Law School
Wesleyan University
1974 Fordham College
United States Merchant Marine Academy<br>
1976 Claremont McKenna College
United States Air Force Academy
United States Coast Guard Academy
United States Military Academy
United States Naval Academy
1982 Mississippi University for Women
1983 Columbia College at Columbia University
1985 Washington and Lee University
1991 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
1993 The Citadel
1997 Virginia Military Institute (last state institution of higher learning to become coeducational)
2001 Notre Dame College
2002 Hood College
2004 Immaculata College
2005 Lesley College of Lesley University
Wells College
2006 Valley Forge Military College
2007 Randolph-Macon Woman's College</p>
<br>
<p>1972 Davidson College Dartmouth College Harvard College - Harvard University Radford University Texas Woman's University University of Notre Dame Washington and Lee University Law School Wesleyan University 1974 Fordham College<</p>
<br>
<p>This list needs tweaking. The first frosh women of the modern era arrived at Wesleyan in Fall of 1970, not 1972. However, I guess, you could say that a critical mass was not reached until two years later.</p>
<p>I wouldn't say Pomona has fallen. Take their 1966 score, 1345, and convert it to the re-centered form and you get something between 1405. The most recent data from wikipedia suggests Pomona's average SAT is 2240, while the data from Pomona's admissions office says a median score of 2190 and a mean score of 2156. These three scores on the old 1600-point scale are 1493, 1460, and 1437, respectively. This is certainly an increase over the re-centered 1966 score. In fact, Pomona College supposedly has the 5th highest SAT score of any college or university in the nation, only outdone by Caltech, Harvard, Princeton, and MIT. Couple these with the fact that Pomona has the lowest admit rate of all LAC's and I would say that the school has risen since 1966, rather than fallen.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomona_College%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomona_College</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.ordoludus.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ordoludus.com/</a></p>
<p>Here is a little blurb from the History and Mission statement of tiny Hillsdale College in Michigan:</p>
<p>It was the first American college to prohibit in its charter any discrimination based on race, religion or sex, and became an early force for the abolition of slavery. It was also only the second college in the nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women. It also had the first college newspaper in the country, The Collegian (still published).</p>
<p>I believe the school's charter dates from 1844. Granted not one of the Ivies, but certainly a forward thinking institution (at least according to its charter).</p>
<p>It is aburd to judge the best schools by SAT scores of admitted freshmen. </p>
<p>Schools can be "judged" based on a number of factors, but most college administrators, particularly the non elites will tell you that the strength of programs, the faculty, facilities and research or internship opportunities are better tools to judge a school. </p>
<p>There are 3,000 colleges in the United States. If you want to go to an Ivy and you get in, then congratulations. But if you want to go to Iowa State and major in something special, I also congratulate you.</p>
<p>Elitism is not a healthy thing. It is a myth based upon the knowledge that so long as people do not challenge the myth, it continues ad nauseum. While I would never denigrate the quality of education at Princeton, it is in the end a snob school with eating clubs who gain you entry into the power hallways of the government with the old boys network. But what those kids learn at Princeton is not necessarily any more than what you can learn at Berkeley or Davidson or Emory or Holy Cross or name your school. </p>
<p>Yes, going to school with kids who all scored 1500 or higher on their SAT can be enriching to some, but it can also be very narrow and nerdly. Some of those kids are simply good test takers and regurgitators. They are not original thinkers. A LOT of kidswho may have scored lower on the SAT may well be more intelligent and bring more to the table....original thinkers, creative thinkers, and kids with diverse backgrounds...not privileged backgrounds.</p>
<p>I read this morning in an insert in the Washington Post that some kid took a gap year, deferred his admission to UVa to attempt to get into West Point. In theory, I commend his patriotism and willingness to serve. But it had more to do with Ice Hockey than patriotism. Some girl turned down Tufts, took a gap year, so she could try and get into Yale. In my view,that is silly.</p>
<p>Some kids need a gap year to mature and get into a decent school.....clean up their records. But to take a gap year to leverage your applications and try to make Ivy League is ridiculous. Nobody could convince me that an education at HYP is better than Tufts or UVa in the matter of what they learn.....but only perhaps the private eating clubs with "connections" to get jobs. And that is what we need to STOP doing. Privilege and elitism is not what our Founding Fathers had in mind, it seems to me.</p>