<p>OpEd article from today's Boston Globe on college rankings:</p>
<p>"The U.S. News process for ranking colleges and universities has been almost universally condemned by specialists as junk science. Publishing a data-rich guide to colleges is a service. What's bogus is the supposed ranking. As any statistician will tell you, you can't reasonably combine entirely unrelated variables (test scores, reputation, placements, spending per student, student aid, etc.) into a single linear index. Worse, the criteria and their weightings are arbitrary. It's hard anough for colleges to come up with financial aid based on need, without a spurious ranking contest creating inducements to subsidize the already privileged."</p>
<p>I think that Kuttner is a collectivist, lefty kook. Aside from that, most of the schools at the top of the USNews rankings don't offer merit aid, so his argument falls flat there. I don't really have any opinion about the USNews ranking, although I will agree that many schools recognize its power, and game the system. There was a very interesting article in the October 2003 issue of Philadelphia magazine that discussed some of Penn's strategic decisions in that regard.</p>
<p>One thing I agree with is that the data rich guide is a service. The rankings I could do without because inevitably it does influence colleges to do things a certain way in order to improve their rank. I don't think the ranking is that valuable. I do think the gathering of information on all the schools so one can make comparisons in different areas, is a good service.</p>
<p>PS...Driver, was that the issue of Philadelphia magazine with Penn on the cover and lots inside to do with Penn? I think I read that. I'm originally from Philly and my parents live there and I was down there a lot in the fall of '03 because my dad was dying. At the time, I had a child who was an applicant to Penn so I read that issue which was in their house.</p>
<p>Susan:
Yes, it was that issue. "How to get into Penn" was the cover story, I think, and the sidebar article on how Penn was tweaking itself to move up in the USNews rankings was the "off the record" blockbuster (no-one from Penn would comment on the record, but the facts were there). It was very interesting. Unfortunately, Philadelphia Mag isn't available online.</p>
<p>Kuttner's article concludes with a nod to Reed as one college that has "just said no" to the US News ranking and does not participate in it. Coincidentally, my son's guidance counsellor just recommended that we take a look at it. Does anybody have any recommendations one way or the other regarding Reed?</p>
<p>Pesto, Emeraldkity and I both have daughters at Reed. In general, I'd happily recommend it to any student who would be comfortable with the description "quirky intellectual." My D is a theater-literature major; she loves the small inclusive campus, Portland, the intellectual demands of her classes, and the fact that she gets long narrative comments rather than grades. Do you have specific questions?</p>
<p>Yup, EK4 has one there, and there are a couple of CC parents who are alumni. I think Reed sounds like a great place. As you know, I'm a right-wing extremist, :) and Reed has a reputation as kind of a lefty, counter-culture place. Nevertheless, "Choosing the Right College" has enormous respect for Reed, which I think should make everyone take note.
[quote]
With a relatively demanding curriculum and a number of rigorous courses, Reed College is neither for the academically lazy nor the intellectually timid. At its heart lies a core freshman course in Western Civilization, which along with a senior class thesis, bookends an intensely challenging journey into higher education.
[/quote]
It has a reputation as a very tough, intellectual school that also recognizes and celebrates quirkiness. The third-highest number of students who go on to graduate school.</p>
<p>DD visited it and loved the intellectual atmosphere and classes...she hated the smoking and was turned off by the "scroungers"(?) in the cafeteria (students eating other student's leftovers off their plates..) She thought it was a really cool place in many ways, but ultimately decided to apply elsewhere.</p>
<p>Actually, I have that Phila Mag article - It's from October 2002 rather than 2003. The title is "How to Get Your Kid into Penn or Any Top School."</p>
<p>It was a balanced article which maintains that Penn's rise in the rankings seems to have been no accident, corresponding to real improvements in the institution. Yet some questions were raised that apparently are not answered for the article. Nobody interviewed suggested that the improvements that were made were for the purpose of rankings. The article did question how the student faculty ratio went from 11:1 in 1995 to 6:1 in 1996 and how the percentage of full-time professors went from 81 % in 1998 to 94% in 1999. Penn referred the author to the USNews director of data research, who said he lacked time to "perform historical reconstruction of Penn's statistics." Penn didn't make those calculations available either (don't know if they have since then).</p>
<p>There is also the acknowledgment by many that higher ranking means increased apps and donations. Some were quoted as saying that hiring decisions in individual departments are also influenced by the current ranking of the department.</p>
<p>Roshke:
If you have time, would you mind typing out the sidebar portion of that article, which dealt specifically with US News? It's short, and I really regret not having saved it.</p>
<p>I should add that I didn't mean any criticism of Penn, with which I have multiple strong ties.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Kuttner's article concludes with a nod to Reed as one college that has "just said no" to the US News ranking and does not participate in it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Reed sure gets a lot of mileage out of that notion, considering that they publish the same Common Data Set filing that every other school provides to USNEWS.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, who commented about Reed. "Quirky" certainly describes my S to a T. How are math and sciences there, especially computer science?</p>
<p>I don't know about computer science, but math is strong at Reed. Reed is fourth in the country in per graduate production of Math and Computer Science PhDs over the most recent 10-year period -- behind three tech schools: CalTech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT. They have a pretty high percentage of math majors, relatively speaking.. They are also fourth behind the same schools in total math and science PhDs combined.</p>
<p>Of course, Reed produces a lot of future PhDs across the board. A whopping 19.9% of their graduates have gotten a PhD or equivalent doctoral degree over that period of time -- again...you guessed it....fourth in the country (behind CalTech, Harvey Mudd, and Swarthmore).</p>
<p>driver - It's somewhat longer than that, and I don't think I'm permitted to reprint copyrighted material here, but I'm happy to PM or email it to you!</p>
<p>interesteddad, that mileage quip sounded like a swipe against Reed. You imply that by publishing Common Data Set info, they <em>are</em> somehow doing something that buys into the system and therefore diminishes the significance of telling US News to sod off. Why is that?</p>
<p>Common Data Set information is helpful to other schools, to prospective students, to alums...it's good citizenship in the higher ed community to produce it.</p>
<p>The Common Data Set initiative wasn't driven solely by US News. The College Board & Petersons were a part of it, too.</p>
<p>There have been many reports that higher ups at US News have an undisclosed relationship with Penn. Also, it should not surprise anyone that Penn has been and still stretches the truth to its utter limits. Their reported data is wildly inconsistent and is thus highly suspect. When Lee Stetson openly admits that the numbers reported to USNews would not survive scrutiny, the bar is set for the school. FWIW, it is not a surprise that the most challenged rankings are -and rightfully should be- for schools ranked in fourth place in Doctoral Universities and Liberal Arts, or in this case Wellesley and Penn. </p>
<p>The irony is that I doubt that very few people would rank Penn as the fourth best Ivy League school, ahead of Columbia, Brown, or Dartmouth. </p>
<ol>
<li>Reed and USNews</li>
</ol>
<p>Reed must truly enjoy the publicity it garners from its "refusal" to provide the date. At the end of the day, its ranking is very much in line with the statistics of the school. Simply stated, it is ranked where it belongs. It should also be noted that one of the best articles written about Reed was in the ranking edition of US News. On the other hand, a recent article written about the ranking by the President of Reed was one of the most self-centered and misleading I read on the subject.</p>
<p>I stopped reading when the author showed the extent of his research and understanding of the rankings -and admissions for that matter- by delivering this atrocity:</p>
<p>"But the easiest single way to raise rankings is by enrolling students with ever higher SAT scores."</p>
<p>I also stopped reading when he suggested that merit scholarships go to students from "affluent" families who don't need the aid. In a lot of ways, we're considered "affluent", but we work for a living, and don't have an extra $40,000/year to throw around! Or perhaps he would prefer it if I stopped working so someone else could pay my d's way through college, regardless of how hard she worked??</p>
<p>
[quote]
You imply that by publishing Common Data Set info, they <em>are</em> somehow doing something that buys into the system and therefore diminishes the significance of telling US News to sod off.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Since virtually all of the USNEWS data is taken directly from the Common Data Set and since Reed publishes their Common Data Set with data that is as complete as any other school, I don't see that Reed has told USNEWS to "sod off". </p>
<p>I can only assume that they must mean they refused to have their three designate administrators complete the peer ranking survey...or maybe the alumni giving rate.</p>
<p>I don't understand USNEWS saying that Reed refuses to provide the data or Reed saying they refuse to participate. No big deal. Just ironic.</p>
<p>Trust me...there is far more egregious stuff that occurs in the USNEWS data reporting. Not to call anybody out or anything, but compare Middlebury's Common Data Set/USNEWS SAT scores sometime to the actual class profile posted on their website.</p>