<p>The overall morality threshold. Thus, that involves both points you brought up…they inherently go hand-in-hand…The more willing the media is to exploit sex, the more lax prosecution will become for rapists…</p>
<p>[The</a> Campus Rape Myth by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal Winter 2008](<a href=“http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html]The”>http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html)</p>
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<p>No. That is not true at all.</p>
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<p>lolwut</p>
<p>“Maybe these young iconoclasts can take up another discredited idea: college is for learning. The adults in charge have gone deaf to the siren call of beauty that for centuries lured people to the classics. But fighting male dominance or catering to the libidinal impulses released in the 1960s are sorry substitutes for the pursuit of knowledge. The campus rape and sex industries are signs of how hollow the university has become.”</p>
<p>Preach on.</p>
<p>The level of “badness” of any crime, is not based upon merely what others tell us to think. We are independent entities. We are individuals. Murder, and the sickness involved, wouldn’t make you say…“Wow. That looks OK…I think I’ll try it myself because the murderer told me it is OK” No…there is evil in this world, and rape is a definite form…and should be treated as such. Not because we are programmable automatons, but because we are human beings who innately have a knowledge of what is right and wrong…yet, those who intentionally lead the young astray are sick…</p>
<p>"That does not mean however that all rapists are terrible people and we need to get them out of here asap (considering there will always be rapists).</p>
<p>ALso, I haven’t even gotten into how girls play the victim stereotype a lot of the time, which can be seen a lot throughout this thread…but I feel if I even hint at bringing it up everyone will consider me an evil ■■■■■■■"</p>
<p>Well, the first part is stating the obvious, aka people are complicated and circumstances do play a role (just look at all the unnecessary violence and rapes known to have occurred in Vietnam; obviously not every soldier was born a sick ■■■■■■■ with premeditated plans to rape and murder innocents)</p>
<p>But the “playing the victim” part… seriously? Just because you don’t put up a fight doesn’t make the perpetrator any less responsible (no one gets off murder just because the victim didn’t kick and scream for help, for one). Certainly the female not being very aggressive in rejecting someone often has to with gender roles, but how hard can a “no” or an “I’m not in the mood” be to interpret? If you’re going to argue women play the victim, I could just as easily point out many men play the aggressive creeper: thinking if you change tactics or tones that the answer will somehow change into a maybe or yes (even the non-rapists, from my experience at least). Why pin a societal problem on one gender? That’s incredibly misogynist, so I hope that is not where you were going.</p>
<p>“obviously not every soldier was born a sick ■■■■■■■ with premeditated plans to rape and murder innocents”</p>
<p>Yeah but there were also plenty of soldiers who didn’t have a major malfunction and do that ****. Just because they had shell shock doesn’t exonerate them of their actions.</p>
<p>Of course not, but you can’t claim things like that don’t play a role. Abusers aren’t exonerated from crimes of abuse just because of their bad childhoods, but they’re certainly more likely to have become abusers as a result of it.</p>
<p>Well yeah. I’m not sure what your point is though.</p>
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<p>Vulnerable? To what? His own lack of self-control? His thirst for power? I don’t understand how this could be an excuse. A man gets himself so excited that he can’t control himself…that’s supposed to be acceptable? I’m still not convinced that we are supposed to see this as a sympathetic case.</p>
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<p>No, to one person that rapist is bad because of what they did to them. Someone who takes advantage of you like that and forces himself or herself on you in that way is bad because of the experience you had with them. People who sexually force themselves onto other people are bad because we understand that they have knowingly inflicted incredible pain onto someone else, for their own sick pleasure. Why don’t people have the right to judge them? What more do they need?</p>
<p>and bartleby, what is the point in throwing that ridiculous article in? The author apparently thinks all college students spent 7 days a week having drunken orgies, and that the solution to rape is that we all practice abstinence until marriage. Does she have anything more useful to say besides “drinking=bad” and “pre-marital sex=bad” for people actually trying to live by their own sexual values? Honestly…</p>
<p>DCHurricane, I was just going along with what Prothero said about rape not neccesarily implying a lack of humanity in a person. Not a particularly big point, but I guess a lot of people saying rapists are sick bastards who all deserve execution probably warranted it somewhat.</p>
<p>“and bartleby, what is the point in throwing that ridiculous article in? The author apparently thinks all college students spent 7 days a week having drunken orgies, and that the solution to rape is that we all practice abstinence until marriage. Does she have anything more useful to say besides “drinking=bad” and “pre-marital sex=bad” for people actually trying to live by their own sexual values? Honestly…”</p>
<p>You must be illiterate, since that’s not what the article is about at all. I know it’s easy to just assume that anything that contradicts your viewpoint must be evil Christians telling you how to live, but, um, it’s not. It suggests, briefly, that maybe the hookup culture is responsible for poor decisions made by both men and women, but that’s a minor point in the article. If this were an SAT question asking you the main point of the argument, you would have gotten it wrong.</p>
<p>Far too women are suffer terribly from being raped, yet feminist organizations cheapen their experience by arbitrarily classifying things that aren’t rape (that the allegedly raped women themselves usually do not classify as rape) as rape. That article debunks something most co-eds, of both sexes, know to be false, but is constantly repeated on the basis of terrible research techniques.</p>
<p>“73 percent of the women whom she characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped. Further—though it is inconceivable that a raped woman would voluntarily have sex again with the fiend who attacked her—42 percent of Koss’s supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants”.</p>
<p>The 25% stat is questionable and I personally don’t believe its that high either unless it’s a world statistic, but with the statistic above it’s certainly possible that rape victims have sex with their rapists repeatedly because many/most rapes occur with friends or even lovers/husbands. I mean, we even know someone on this board who did that a few times, not all rapes are as simple as your house being broken into and being raped at knifepoint. And again, gender roles probably have something to do with it too; most women just aren’t taught to be aggressive about turning down sex, nor do they believe that anything except the “some stranger dragged me kicking and screaming” rape can be rape.</p>
<p>“As Stuart Taylor and K. C. Johnson point out in their book Until Proven Innocent, however, the rate of false reports is at least 9 percent and probably closer to 50 percent”</p>
<p>Points like these make her “facts” (which otherwise mostly consist of a few amusing anecdotes that she seems to generalize into the whole female college population) seem less believable. Just because it comes from a book doesn’t make it sound more true: explain it. Otherwise she might as well be accusing women of a mass conspiracy to falsely charge men with rape with those numbers.</p>
<p>And you’re right that it’s not the main point, but the author makes so many preachy comments that it’s hard to take her supposedly neutral points seriously.</p>
<p>SAT question, lol. I do hope that all of us have at least moved on from the idea that SATs are the ultimate measure of intellect; we are in college now :).</p>
<p>@Twisted:</p>
<p>I really understand what you’re going through. Rely on your faith to see you through. Seeing this person nearby must be horrible - however, you know you are a strong survivor already by carrying on with your life. No one can ever deny that experience chenges your life - if they do, remind yourself that their opinion doesn’t matter. But it’s up to every survivor to “change course” so to speak, of how the experience will alter their life. Instead of letting it drag you down, you carry on. Letting others know (even anonymously) how you’re surviving & doing well can help others. It sounds like you’re doing great.</p>
<p>Blessings,
pinknebula</p>
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<p>Of course I wasn’t being misogynist and saying that all rape is womens fault, that is crazy. I was merely pointing out the other half of the story- like you said it is not always the classical case of a guy coming at a girl at knifepoint and threatening her to have sex, there are many other cases and most likely the girl played at least some role in it.</p>
<p>The part where you say that girls always make it clear to the guy “no” and “I’m not in the mood” I disagree with. As you can even see in this thread it is highly subjective and almost infinitely different with each girl and case. It might even be the reason that some colleges offer so little support to rape victims, since so many cases are different and complicated- just a random theory.</p>
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<p>OK judge Judy, go read back to previous posts of mine. I clearly stated that from a societal point of view, no this is not sympathetic and/or tolerable. Why? Because it is extremely damaging to the society as a whole. </p>
<p>If you are ready to step down from your podium, from an individual point of view we have no right to judge a rapist. They have their own reasons for committing the act and for each unique case it’s different. The underlying reason, however, is the fact that humans were meant to breed. It is ridiculous to assume that after hundreds of years of guys dominating pretty much everything (including their sex lives) to all of a sudden stop listening to their instinct and hormones.</p>
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<p>Rapists are not bad/evil/sick or anything like that. People can’t judge rapists because like I said, under certain circumstances any guy would rape a woman, believe it or not. Grouping all rapists and calling them “bad” just doesn’t work- people take advantage of other people every day in millions of different other ways. </p>
<p>What people need is an entire life history of the person and also a very good picture of their current circumstances to judge them. People don’t do things without a reason. And with regards to rape, it’s probably a pretty darn good reason.</p>
<p>Devil’s advocate out.</p>
<p>"Rapists are not bad/evil/sick or anything like that. People can’t judge rapists because like I said, under certain circumstances any guy would rape a woman, believe it or not. "</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>Unless one goes to very unlikely extremes (and there was a very extreme case in the news last year of a young man who was forced at gunpoint to rape his mother), I don’t that most men would choose to rape a woman. </p>
<p>Many men who rape deliberately do things to frighten and humiliate women. Just read about some of the details involved in rape cases. That’s another reason why women don’t report them. The men who do this are very sick. The activities they are engaged in are not activities that normal people would choose to do.</p>
<p>In many cases, men rape because they hate women or human beings in general. After all, men, too, can be raped. In fact, in some foreign countries as part of warfare women – and men – are raped. Google and you can find out about this.</p>
<p>We could just publicly hang rapists and then we wouldn’t have this discussion</p>
<p>“If you are ready to step down from your podium, from an individual point of view we have no right to judge a rapist. They have their own reasons for committing the act and for each unique case it’s different. The underlying reason, however, is the fact that humans were meant to breed. It is ridiculous to assume that after hundreds of years of guys dominating pretty much everything (including their sex lives) to all of a sudden stop listening to their instinct and hormones.”</p>
<p>I really think you should just stop talking. In a thread where we are also discussing rape in a non-philosophical point of view, you look like an awful person and your views are seriously damaging my mental health.</p>