College Recruiting Question

Athletic Recruits
1

<p>I have a question for any college recruiters out there. My son is a freshman at a very rigorous and highly prestigious independent high school. He is already receiving some interest from some D1 colleges for his chosen sport. My wife and I were always under the impression that graduating from this school would be a sure ticket to almost any college. We are starting to learn though from others in this school that are further along in the process, that college recruiters are only interested in your GPA and could care less in what high school you attend.</p>

<p>So my question is, is it worth it to stay in the prep school and continue with a GPA in the 3.0 range? Or should he transfer to our local catholic high school where he should be able to maintain a GPA closer to the 4.0 range?</p>

<p>My wife and I are convinced that his sport is going to get him further than his academics will as far as getting into the college of his choice.</p>

<p>The prep school tuition is starting to hurt as well. We really want him to stay in the prep school, but just aren't sure if it is worth it.</p>

2

<p>Your answer depends on a variety of points: example - what type of college he is looking for – if he is seeking a large D1 university, indeed, it probably matters less the reputation of the school he is attending; if he is looking at an Ivy, highly selective college or D3 highly selective college then the reputation of the high school may matter more. Remember that D1s can offer scholarships but D3s do not and with D3s, he has to be able to get into the college on his own merit. Another question is what guidance you are getting in terms of college applications/recruiting at your current school. Some prep schools have phenomenal guidance counselors, who may also be experienced in athletic recruiting. It can be a very complicated process and you may indeed, at your prep school, have better guidance. Then again, you could probably hire an outside agency to help with the recruitment at a price cheaper than the tuition.</p>

<p>Ultimately, in my mind, it comes down to what you are seeking in terms of education for your son (which is why our athletic son is at a small private high school and we drive 10-year-old cars). If your son is not academically driven, and isn’t getting a unique education at the prep school that you feel is important to him, then no, the money doesn’t matter, especially if it is making a hardship for you. You write, you “…just aren’t sure if it is worth it” really depends on how you value worth. Is he becoming a critical thinker? Is he receiving a top-notch education? Is he being challenged in ways that he might not be at another school? Does he love his teachers? Does he have access to resources that he doesn’t at another school? </p>

<p>Lastly, remember, a LOT can change between 9th grade and senior year… I hate to say it, but injuries can happen, life changes can happen. Don’t put all of his eggs in one “sport” basket.</p>

3

<p>SluggerDad,</p>

<p>I agree with MomofBack2Back2Back. I think you are mixing things up and getting way ahead of yourself. </p>

<p>First, identify exactly what is his academic and athletic goals keeping in mind the sport can be a huge factor.? Are we talking about playing football at Alabama or fencing at Yale? As you would expect those examples will have very different paths. Second, try not to get ahead of yourself. Talk to people who recognize talent (guidance councelors and/or coaches, scouts) and can suggest the best way to develop his talents. Seek to understand your son’s realistic chances. I’ve just started the process with my third son in baseball. I’ve learned with my two oldest son’s that college baseball is ridiculously competitive, but I know his chances are slightly less than 6% of high school baseball players go onto play in college for an NCAA team. Third, try to educate yourself on the recruiting process and develop a plan. You need a starting point for understanding the recruiting process. My suggestion is to sit down with your son and discuss future college possibilities. Get a feel for what he is thinking at this time. If he doesn’t know that is fine, you’ll at least know that you’ll need to keep it general. Revisit the discussion in 6 months. Fourth, remember athletic scholarships sound sexy but they are limited in scope to mostly year to year, D1 and D2 schools, and the total amount of money. In all cases athletic scholarships are at the coaches discretion year to year if you are fortunate. Academic scholarship dollars are much greater than athletic scholarships in total. Academic scholarships are typically for 4 years and under your son’s control with his grade performance. </p>

<p>In addition, 'd evaluate your current situation. If your son is getting value from his prep school…stick with it. If he is better served at another school than look into it. My two oldest sons went to public (magnet) high schools, and got fantastic educations. They are doing very well in college. In my area, I have no hesitation with the public high schools. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

4

<p>I can only speak from my experience with my son. I found that the biggest hurdle was them wanting you athletically - and then standardized test scores. If a coach wants you bad enough, they can sell you with good standardized test scores. As many here would say - the better the talent, even at the Ivy level, the more leeway. My son had no problem qualifying for Ivy academically with a 2120 SAT and 33 ACT from a large public HS with a class rank of about 8% and a 3.7 GPA. What kept him out of the Ivy league and relegated to the NESCAC was that no coach thought enough of him athletically to offer a spot.</p>

5

<p>Sluggerdad,</p>

<p>For athletic recruits the reputation of the high school matters little for highly selective D3 schools or the Ivy League. For these schools course selection, standardized test scores, grades and athletic performance are much more important.</p>

6

<p>Let’s take these one by one.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>No, sorry, that is not true. It is not true for any school, not just yours.
I will assume this is your oldest child and, as you say, a freshman so you are just beginning on this process. That’s great. I’d suggest buying one or two of the best admissions books, read them through and research back on some of the threads here on CC. You have some false assumptions and best that you do some research. That’s not a bad thing. We all started at step zero.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>A very over generalized, over simplified and misleading statement.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, first, if I were you, I wouldn’t necessarily jump to that conclusion, but assume for the moment that that is accurate.
There have been several threads on whether it is “better” to have a high gpa at a “bad” school or a lower gpa at a “good” school. You can look back and see what the opinions are.
My two cents: admin officials (for the most part) are keenly aware of what a gpa is “worth” at respective high schools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>It sounds like you’re giving up on your son’s academic potential and putting all your eggs in the sports recruiting basket. I’m not going to go there, but, ugh, that’s a very slipperly slope. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>By “worth it,” you’re implying that the Catholic school is much cheaper than the prep school?</p>

7

<p>Also, just want to throw out there a couple other things to consider. Your freshman could decide that he is burnt out from his sport and start to resent having to play. He could also become injured and be out for that reason. Also, some kids as freshman are stars but they don’t progress so others who maybe have not hit their growth spurt surpass them athletically later on…</p>

<p>Pulling him out of a good school solely because of the possibility of athletic recruiting later seems like a bad proposition to me.</p>

8

<p>Something I left out, is that this is his second go as a freshman at this prep school. Although he didn’t fail any classes last year, the school felt we was immature and could use an extra year. We actually felt he was immature as well and agreed to have him repeat. The problem with that is that he will be short one English class for NCAA eligibility. The prep school will not allow him to double-up his English classes to catch up, but he can double-up if he transfers. So that’s something we need to take into account as well.</p>

<p>He is doing better this year academically and really loves the prep school. The education is second to none and the “connections” he is making there are invaluable.</p>

<p>My son is a baseball player. We live in the Mid-Atlantic region, so of course his dream is to play baseball for one of the major D1 programs in the south. He actually has received some interest from some of them already. I know there are only 11.something scholarships available per team per year, so his chances of getting a significant baseball scholarship are probably minimal.</p>

<p>Pros/Cons
Prep School pros - Better education, connections, better environment, son loves it
Prep School cons - Tuition, NCAA eligibility issue, lower GPA</p>

<p>Catholic School pros - shorter commute, best friend attends, cheaper tuition, NCAA eligibility issue resolved, higher GPA (hopefully)
Catholic School cons - not as prepared for college</p>

<p>What we want for him is the best education possible without being broke and to be better prepared for life after baseball, whenever that may be. We do want him to be a graduate of the prep school. Although, we are at the point now that we may need to dip into retirement money to pay off some other bills that have been put on the back burner. We also don’t want him to have to miss a year of college baseball because he is short an English class. If he stays in prep school we will look at online courses to satisfy the requirement. Also trying to figure out how the academic waiver process works in college. Pretty confusing subject thus far.</p>

<p>My son is not really looking to get into any Ivy league schools, but does want to target some of the “Ivy’s of the south”, Vanderbilt, UNC, Duke, etc.</p>

<p>I appreciate everyone’s input, as you can tell we are really confused and torn on how to proceed.</p>

9

<p>SluggerDad: One possible solution for solving the English class requirement for NCAA Eligibility is summer school, if the prep school offers a class or permits your son to attend another local school to transfer the credits in. As one who attended summer school more than once in college to ensure an on-time graduation, summer school really isn’t too terrible.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

10

<p>A few comments:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>The schools your son is interested in in 9th grade will probably have nothing to do with where he wants to go when he is a high school senior, or where he can get in. When I was in 9th grade, I didn’t know what the Ivy League was, and knew only of local schools plus the big-time sports schools. </p></li>
<li><p>He will have to be incredibly good athletically to attract the attention of the Ivies of the South that you mentioned. People are shocked at how good Division 3 athletics are compared to high school, save a handful of schools (many of whom recruit heavily or fill their teams with post-graduate students who are trying to develop athletically or academically before going to the big time). I know I’ll get people mad here, but in general, high school sports are pretty bad overall. Most recruited college athletes, superstars in high school, are shocked at how good their new teammates are.</p></li>
<li><p>Division 1 coaches contact countless thousands of prospects, and end up dumping most. Hopefully, that won’t happen to your son, but don’t count on contacts when he is 9th grade guaranteeing him an athletic scholarship or athletic ticket past admissions.</p></li>
<li><p>Your son may or may not develop to be athletically good enough for a big-time program, or even a Division 3 program. I grew significantly between 10th and 12th grade, and developed athletically accordingly. Our high school baseball coach was the best player on a team that won the Little League World Series, when he was 5-6, 140. He grew one inch after age 12, gained little weight, and ruined his arm. Your son could get hurt or lose interest. Betting on college athletics for a college education ticket is not something I would bet on. Also, bear in mind how difficult it will be to juggle the time demands of playing college baseball, with all those midweek road games, with his schoolwork.</p></li>
<li><p>The Ivies of the South won’t give your son a free ticket through admissions if he doesn’t meet certain academic standards, even if he looks like a future major leaguer. </p></li>
<li><p>Regarding getting into any college because he is going to a certain high school, the world stopped working that way 50 or 75 years ago. Brown rejects 80% of the valedictorians who apply. I interview kids who apply for Princeton, all who seem fantastic, and few get in. 25,000 or so kids applied to Princeton last year, and 13,000 of those had SAT scores of 2100 or higher. They accept about 8% of those who apply, and routinely reject kids with perfect grades and perfect SAT scores. The applicant pool is incredibly talented in the Ivies, as well as the Ivies of the South.</p></li>
<li><p>I went to an average public high school and got into an Ivy, as did numerous others at Princeton (and they still take plenty from public schools). The admissions office at an elite school is familiar with a lot of high schools, and if not, they can figure out how demanding your son’s school is. They will look hard at what the school offers, and whether your son has taken the most demanding curriculum available. If he transfers to a public high school that offers only 4 AP courses, that won’t hurt him as long as he has taken those 4 courses and taken advantage of everything the school offers. They will also expect someone who has gone to a top private school to have performed better on standardized tests than if the student has gone to a school that provides lesser opportunities (and also less SAT coaching). </p></li>
<li><p>As an aside, admissions officers have gotten excited when they meet my child because she goes to a podunk public school in a podunk state from which they get few applicants. If we had sent her away to prep school, she would be just another prep school applicant, and wouldn’t stand out. I helped a local kid with his applications a few years ago, and one top 25 school gave him what was nearly a full ride because he was bright, plus he had grown up on a dirt road to poor, uneducated parents. The head of admissions at that school told me that they considered him a diversity applicant. The top schools look for diversity in admissions in numerous ways. </p></li>
<li><p>The connections he makes in prep school aren’t worth paying the prep school tuition. These may help him later in life, but may not. If he’s in 9th grade, those kids who appear to be future great connections are most likely the children of wealthy people, and many of these kids will not be in positions of power at all 25 years from now (my region is full of trust fund babies who work little, if at all). Pay the prep school tuition for the education, not for the future connections.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I’m not sure I’ve helped, but you have a long ways to go, and so does your son. He’s in 9th grade. He’ll grow physically, intellectually and emotionally in the next few years. Let him enjoy high school, and in the meantime, do some research about colleges, college admissions as well as the athletic pathway into college. There are books about all of these subjects, and you have plenty of time.</p>

11

<p>There is no question in my mind that the quality of the high school is not important in the recruiting world. If you are good enough athletically and have the right kind of course load, then you must have whatever GPA or test score the school (and coach) has decided is necessary for admissions. Not once has a coach ever discussed the quality of my son’s school but GPA came up over and over. For the IL schools, I would assume a 3.6 is the bare minimum and a 28 ACT score. My S’s experience was that even with a high test score (30+ and great SAT IIs, the fact that he had a 3.5 was a deal breaker for the ivys, even though he goes to a very competive private high school. Athletically he would have had no issue with these schools. I know of at least two athletes here who went to fairly mediocre public schools where they had 3.9 GPAs at and they had no problem getting into IL schools. Surviving the IL once they get there is another story. We see many athletes who can’t handle the academics once they get there and end up dropping out. S did not have this GPA issue with NESCAC or other very competive schools (Georgetown, Duke, Davidson, Rice etc).</p>

12

<p>SluggerDad,</p>

<p>You have a lot of balls in the air, and issues you are dealing with. I’ll leave the financial advice & academic advice to someone else. I’m just going to focus on one point that I think needs to be driven home. </p>

<p>Every kid who plays any level of baseball aspires to go to Vanderbilt, South Carolina, UNC, UVA because they are on TV and frequently make the College World Series. They are the best of the best programs. They have great coaches, and unbelievable locker rooms, stadiums and workout facilities. I’ve seen SC, UVA and UNC’s facilities (from the inside) first hand, and they are breathtaking. What is not to like? These are the prom queens of college baseball. I personally know (very well) a dozen kids that have played for or are currently playing for one of these sexy teams. A handful of them were my son’s travel teammates. One of them lives across the street from me. He was one of the lucky ones as he remained on the team all 4 years. But I know others that were cut or never saw any playing time because they fell in disfavor with the coach or were not able to live up to expectations. Bottom line is they were not able to produce, and their scholarships was taken away to make room for the next phenom. Each class they recruit is trying to replace the previous class. The competition is brutal. We’re talking about college teams made up of all-state players and high school all-americans losing their scholarships. Guess what? They often transfer and lose a year of eligibility. Possibly your son (high school freshmen) can beat the odds, but I’m hear to tell you the odds are not that good and there is a lot of risk. Please go into these decisions with eyes wide open, because it sounds to me like you are betting the farm. </p>

<p>It has been suggested many times on this website to cast a wide net. It is the most prudent advice that anyone can take on when beginning this recruiting process. It is great to start with these sexy schools, but Ms Congeniality is a good option too. Don’t be so focused on these CWS schools that you fail to consider other options and scenarios which may in fact be optimal for your son. I can’t tell you how many can’t miss recruits I’ve seen over the year actually do miss, and miss bad (hence they often transfer). I would seek the advice of a baseball professional without a vested interest in your son to tell you his baseball tools & projectability. Seek the truth. At his age with a year of high school baseball already under his belt, he should already be on their boards as a prospect if he is attending the right showcase events. These schools seek recruits that are on the edge of being drafted when they graduate from high school. They want the kids that decide against turning pro to sign with them. Their pitch is 'we will help you get drafted in 3 years (junior year of college)". </p>

<p>I hope you understand what I’m trying to focus on. I just want you to be realistic with his talents and opportunities. Good luck.</p>

13

<p>SluggerDad,</p>

<p>I think the advice given in the last few posts, FWIW, is excellent.</p>

<p>And, as always, Fenway speaks the truth.</p>

<p>You and your son might also be very interested in reading a NY Times series from a few years ago. It followed a college baseball coach (it might have been Haverford) and gave a very good inside look at recruiting.</p>

14

<p>Yes, thanks to all for your input.</p>

15

<p>Great advice above.</p>

<p>If you took baseball completely out of the equation, I suspect you still might be tempted to put your son in the local catholic school just because of the financial burden. The other issue seems to be college matriculation: Is it worth paying for prep school if it doesn’t guarantee a great college acceptance? Maybe, maybe not…but in my experience, some do–as long as by great you don’t mean Ivy (and you don’t). What are the matriculation statistics at your prep school versus the Catholic school, athletics aside? </p>

<p>I think you might find a couple of threads on the prep school parents board helpful. The posters are mostly boarding school parents but much of the discussion applies to your situation.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1577535-boarding-school-worth-middle-class-families.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1577535-boarding-school-worth-middle-class-families.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1505215-if-you-could-do-all-over-again.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1505215-if-you-could-do-all-over-again.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1453849-will-you-send-you-kid-philips-academy-again.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1453849-will-you-send-you-kid-philips-academy-again.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

16

<p>Lots of great advice here - something to add though</p>

<p>In regards to GPA just as important is class rank, my S has a 3.7 GPA but is ranked only inthe top 40% of his class. Some collleges (will not say all) has a minimum of class rank associated with GPA in order to qualify for accedemic $$$.</p>

<p>Baseball and its 11 scholorships - remember these are broken up into pieces and are RENEWABLE every year. so the coach might offer you $10k as a freshman with the promise that $ will increase as your playing time and contribution increases, but that can work the other way as well. He had a hard freshman year and the coach is now recruiting players to fill his postiion where do you think that $$ comes from? yes your S’s $$. Most college baseball teams will divide the $$ up on the field of play, example would be; 3.5 pitchers, 3.5 Outfielders, 1.5 Catchers, 2.5 infielders</p>

<p>good luck and get him into SAT pre classes</p>

17

<p>mortagebkr,</p>

<p>I would lobby your high school hard to get rid of class rank (as many high schools have) when a 3.7 (I assume unweighted) puts you in the top 40%!</p>

18

<p>I think mortagebkr just made a case for the exact opposite. Most schools rank using a weighted GPA to make a distinction between a student who has a low GPA but took hard (Honors, AP) courses and one with a higher GPA that took less rigorous classes. </p>

<p>Case in point, our local public high school which is considered academically excelling by state stds. ranks by weighted GPA and publishes to parents that a student with a 4.0 GPA that does not have a higher weighted GPA (meaning they never took Honors, or AP) falls at ~ the top 25% rank. It takes As in demanding courses to be in the top of the class. </p>

<p>Coaches at academically demanding schools will ask for both weighted and un-weighed averages and most admissions departments reference a school summary report that the guidance office provides to be able to compare grades and rank from one school to another.</p>

19

<p>OnTrack,</p>

<p>I respectfully disagree. Yes, excelling in weighted classes is better than excelling in regular classes. However, many high schools have stopped reporting class rank arguing that the rankings emphasize minuscule differences in grade point averages. There is also the fear that students at high-performing schools may be at a disadvantage for college admissions when compared to students at less- competitive schools, where it may be easier to have a higher class rank. The kid is ranked in the top 40% at one school may well be valedictorian at another.</p>

20

<p>In our state, there is no weighting of GPAs by any school. I have heard that it is not legal to do so here but don’t know if that is true. No class rank either at my S’s high school. Some colleges will recalculate GPA’s so that everyone is weighted the same. But that is the admissions office. Coaches typically are reacting to whatever your transcript shows and aren’t going to figure in weighting for AP courses. I am sure my son’s GPA would be much higher if weighted but no coach ever mentioned that.</p>