College scholarship for illegals only

Paying for College
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<p>With the new budget proposals, the estimated debt for running the government for every legal taxpaying family in America is now $116,000 and growing every single day. </p>

<p>And I live on a dirt road with volunteer fire department protection.</p>

<p>April 15, 2009 - Join a Tea Party in your area. </p>

<p>Say no to spending money we can't afford on things we can't afford. If American's don't stand up and speak out against Washington, our country will soon be worse off than Mexico. Then where will the illegals run too... Canada??</p>

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<p>@ owlice:</p>

<p>You let me know when a parent committing crimes is allowed to hang on to that toddler....
( I can certainly think of one scenario)</p>

<p>@usdenick:</p>

<p>"Crimes"? No; crimes.</p>

<p>Am I proposing we deport all illegal immigrants, and children thereof? </p>

<p>Absolutely not. (1. 12 million people can't be deported. 2. They contribute heavily to our society; don't think me ignorant of this. 3. A large number of children of illegals are born on American soil, and are thus American citizens. 4. It would be awesome if those illegals were citizens, because of 2.)</p>

<p>Am I proposing we address the situation by opening up paths to citizenship, before we jump the gun on providing benefits of citizenship (because this scholarship is feasibly something that could set in motion scholarships that do involve taxpayer dollars)?</p>

<p>Absolutely.</p>

<p>Do you have a problem with that? If you do, I can't see any legal justification for it.</p>

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<p>Are you aware many illegals own homes and pay property taxes?</p>

<p>Many also use fake social security numbers and pay social security taxes and will never benefit from social security themselves.</p>

<p>I have such mixed feelings about this issue myself but acknowledge it is a complicated situation for many children who are brought to the US when they are very young.</p>

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<p>^ Yes, I am aware of it (2nd time I've needed to clarify this)</p>

<p>Are you aware that illegal immigrants are doing something....illegal?</p>

<p>"...and will never benefit from social security themselves..."</p>

<p>The solution then, is not to give them benefits.</p>

<p>The solution is for them to become citizens.
Otherwise, there is no advantage to being a citizen of a country.
Massive numbers of people doing something doesn't make it legal.</p>

<p>And yeah, it's hard to become a citizen. I know that; my parents were born somewhere else too.</p>

<p>But cultural assimilation aside (both speak fluent English with no accent; both are native speakers of languages much more distant to English than Spanish), breaking the law is breaking the law.</p>

<p>There are two honorable(and legal...) courses of action: Following the law.
Changing the law if you feel it is unjust.</p>

<p>Perpetuation of illegal immigration doesn't change the law. It undermines it (and the lawbreaker's position...), like all criminality does.</p>

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<p>As someone who recently attended the College of San Mateo (CSM), one of the three colleges of the San Mateo County Community College District (SMCCCD), I'm suprised and troubled to see the misperceptions on this thread. </p>

<p>The blog post says the post was from the SMCCCD, but the letter they're quoting is written about students at Canada College, one of the other two colleges in the district. So, it appears it's an email sent to students at Canada. Further, it appears that it was sent <em>from</em> the Latino student association. The scholarship itself is not offered by the SMCCCD -- it's being offered by a third party organization. And finally, the scholarship is for a high school student accepted to ANY university or college in the US, not just a SMCCCD school. </p>

<p>So, in short, here's a note letting folks know about a scholarship someone they know might qualify for, that has absolutely NO affiliation or funding from the SMCCCD. Of course, even if it were in some way related to the SMCCCD, the district is funded differently than most of you have proposed -- and ALL students of need can easily get a waiver for the fees, which are about $20 per unit. Resident tuition (and the fee waiver program) is available to anyone who can prove California residency or attended California high school, including students who do not have legal immigrant status, but who have applied for it.</p>

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<p>".....available to anyone who can prove California residency or attended California high school, including students who do not have legal immigrant status, but who have applied for it."
Emphasis added.
And that is still the very problem we're all discussing, isn't it?</p>

<p>There's nothing wrong with having a student visa. </p>

<p>There's something very wrong with society contravening laws for a specific group of people because they compose an arbitrarily large section of the population.</p>

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<p>Are illegal immigrants even allowed to enroll in a college? I thought there were some laws.</p>

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<p>^ Unless a college asks for proof of citizenship....</p>

<p>(The exception being service schools, which offer a path to citizenship)</p>

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<p>this is disgusting I have to tell you. These people are illegal immigrants, they do not have the rights to the same rights citizens of this country have. Now this country is in one of the greatest economic disasters of all time and instead of handing out this money to students that are actually part of this country, we're taking money and giving it to people that are here ILLEGALLY!! How does that make any sense at all? Don't bother answering, because there is no justification no matter what way you attempt to manipulate the situation. And to the person that was so taken-back by comments on here... You should rethink your position because your justification is based on incorrect information. CCs are funded by the state, that part is correct, but guess where the state gets that money? From citizens of that state!! They are the taxpayers and now they are paying for illegal immigrants to attend universities. To the folks on here that say the children shouldn't be penalized for their parents fault... bs!! There's a right way and a wrong way to go about things. You receive a visa from our government and all is well, you sneak over the border over night, you deserve to be deported and certainly DO NOT deserve any of the benefits associated with being in this country. There are laws for reasons. This couldn't **** me off anymore than I am right now.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
These people are illegal immigrants, they do not have the rights to the same rights citizens of this country have. Now this country is in one of the greatest economic disasters of all time and instead of handing out this money to students that are actually part of this country, we're taking money and giving it to people that are here ILLEGALLY!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But, it's not like they're inhuman. Illegal immigrants are guilty of a misdemeanor, much like someone who speeds down the highway. Do you strip a person of their right to education, health care, and shelter based on a misdemeanor? We certainly don't take away those things from a speeder.</p>

<p>As for taxes, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. They either provide a fake SSN to their employer (in which case employment tax is still payed), they use an individual EIN (in which case they're actually paying AND filing taxes), or they're being paid under the table, and still subject to vehicle tax, sales tax, and all of the various other consumption / use taxes in society.</p>

<p>Now, I'm not advocating that illegal immigration is a good thing or that illegal immigrants should be allowed to remain in the US. What I am arguing is that your extremist attitude is misguided.</p>

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<p>TrinSF has already stated this is from a 3rd party organization. Not the college No tax money.</p>

<p>About their parents committing the crime of illegal citizenship, just think - we're still paying for Eve's mistakes ;)</p>

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<p>A number of fallacies here. </p>

<p>First, like it or not, there is a labor market. Illegal immigrants don't do jobs that others won't do. What they do is do jobs cheaper than legal citizens, depressing the entry level labor market by a considerable margin, and making it tougher for citizens to get a start, including many minority citizens. </p>

<p>And the do jobs that others won't do statement is hopelessly naive in terms of economics. The subsidy is passed on to employers - since when do those on the left support corporate welfare? And moreover, the viewpoint assumes there is some sort of national interest in having upper middle class people pay less for their lawn service ? Forget it - let wages rise without the influx of illegal labor. Don't encourage an underground economy. If there is less lawn service ordered, so be it - the well off don't need those subsidies. Neither does corporate America. Compete on a fair and rigorous basis. </p>

<p>And immigrants pay taxes? Maybe in some cases. But I have an experiment. Just suppose any of the middle class people posting here decide not to legally pay and file their income taxes. Give that a try, why don't you, and let me know how that works out, especially after consulting a criminal lawyer and having your freedom and liberty at stake?
So on what basis do we permit a second standard for illegal immigrants? Racist condescension? Respect for rule of law is the bedrock of our society - there are huge externalities for permitting illegal immigration as we have done. </p>

<p>Moreover, our immigration policies are a disaster for countries like Mexico. Most states act out of necessity - and take care of their people - including with social programs and the like. Not Mexico - with their inefficient and corrupt economy, they can freely continue not to take care of their people with their social program being illegal immigration to the US. Ah, great program, right? Remittances are now crashing. And condescendingly think Mexico is not capable of better? It is. It is not a poor country - with over 10k per capita - it is only good at acting like one. And just think - PEMEX - the corrupt state owned oil enterprise - lost money last year - at 140 bucks a barrel. Real skill that takes. But they can continue on their merry way as long as they can ship their social problems up north. My comments on Mexico are not new. Even the most liberal elements of the World Bank and IADB concur. It just is not for polite conversation among our politically correct environs. </p>

<p>Six billion people live on this earth. Over half want to come here. It cannot happen. We need immigration policies (like many other nations, including Western European nations) that value human capital and skills above all else. By the way, Mexico does the same and has some of the world's strictest immigration laws. </p>

<p>And finally, even if privately funded, I have severe doubts about the constitutionality of this community college program. And again, if some disagree, how about a private scholarship program that expressly excludes black and hispanic citizens? Isn't that what states did in the South under state sponsored segregationist laws? Or does that not apply to groups that do not fit the national origin or race victim of the month club? </p>

<p>In this context, the views I set forth are hardly extreme.</p>

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<p>^ Thank goodness for you being around.</p>

<p>I'm serious.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you do, I can't see any legal justification for it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your word choice is pathetic.</p>

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<p>^ Are you going to keep up that ad hominem, or actually disagree you provincial kid?</p>

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<p>Guess what guys</p>

<p>technically I'm uncodomented</p>

<p>AND IM APPLYING FOR THIS SCHOLARSHIP!!! ^_^</p>

<p>I got a bomb giggity essay</p>

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<p>Ok, some of you people need to grow up. I applaud this group who donated this fund. </p>

<p>To echo some other arguments, the kids do not have a choice. It is not their fault that their parents are illegal immigrants. It is more a reflection of our flawed immigration system than their parents, but that is a whole other matter. </p>

<p>And, as the daughter of an immigrant, I know how hard it is and how much discrimination there is right now against any immigrant with a Spanish accent. My mom is from SPAIN, immigrated when she was a teenager, but I cannot tell you some of the hateful things I have heard after she speaks at her job (she works at a bank) about how the "d*mn Mexicans are taking all the jobs". My mother does not look remotely Mexican, she is white with blond hair and blue eyes, but she has a Spanish accent. If anything this scholarship is helping Latino people in general that face this kind of discrimination and biased thinking. </p>

<p>Additionally, how many of you know your true immigration roots? There is a high probability that somewhere in your history that you are the descendant of an illegal immigrant, the only difference (for most of you) is that your illegal immigrants were white and not brown.</p>

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<p>haha, yeah that would be a great way to catch them.. As far my feelings toward the scholarship, i think it is unfair and sending the wrong message. Sure people say that its not the childrens fault.. but what message is that sending to the parents? that breaking laws are acceptable and rewarded? Scholarships should be given for reasons such as race, or scholar and works of merit.. things that are celebrated, not giving out money to people who have broken the law, especially in a time where there are law abiding Americans trying to survive this economic crisis. They should be thinking about those students..not criminals.</p>

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<p>This is obviously an issue that has not had been adequately dealt with, except for the D.R.E.A.M act that failed to be passed by Congress a few years ago: the act would have provided children of illegal immigrants an access to an American education, under certain conditions.
I am by no means a proponent of any illegal acts, including illegal immigration, but I think it is an indisputable fact that our country sorely needs comprehensive immigration reform. It is the law that anyone who has overstayed a visa and illegally resided in the US must leave the country and STAY OUT for 10 years before filing the paperwork to enter the country legally again. So children who were brought into the country unknowingly would have to follow this process, and a visa 10 years from now is nowhere near guaranteed. This is their home now - regardless of some decision that their parents made a long time ago - and they speak English, they have high school diplomas and I cannot fathom wanting to deny them a chance at a higher education to become contributing, successful members of our community eventually - hopefully.
Think about some of the students you might have grown up with. The same kids who played little league with you, who went without sleep for that midterm, who worked their ass off for that A in class - just like any other American student who happens to be a citizen. I think we are often unaware of how many of our peers are undocumented (or maybe this is my perception because I have grown up in NYC).
The system is flawed, so let's tread carefully when we judge who is the victim and who is the villain. </p>

<p>This scholarship, from what I understood, is being offered by a third party and targeted towards a specific group. PRIVATE FUNDS, in other words, and I think it's wonderful to see a helpless group among us college-hopefuls getting a shot they couldn't otherwise. There are specific scholarships for people of certain races, sexes, merit, athletic talents, etc. etc. and for those who are SO ****ed off by it - think of it as a scholarship for internationals NOT being paid for by taxpayers' money. Many colleges do give finaid for internationals. </p>

<p>I skipped the economic and political aspects of the illegal immigration issue - I just wanted to share my take on the human, personal parts of the problem that is often forgotten.</p>

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<p>It makes the most sense for all concerned parties that illegal immigrants return to their countries and make a contribution there. That is where scholarship dollars should be spent. Don't forget that the parents of illegal children came to the U.S. voluntarily without knowing the language, culture, etc., and didn't seem to have much problem navigating their way and staying indefinitely. Their educated and healthy children should do just as well or better going in the opposite direction.</p>