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^ Are you going to keep up that ad hominem, or actually disagree you provincial kid?
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<p>provincial kid?</p>
<p><em>slow clap</em></p>
<p>...am I supposed to say "oooooh burn" to that?</p>
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But, it's not like they're inhuman. Illegal immigrants are guilty of a misdemeanor, much like someone who speeds down the highway. Do you strip a person of their right to education, health care, and shelter based on a misdemeanor? We certainly don't take away those things from a speeder.
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<p>Yeah, I can't remember the last time I went to federal court to handle my speeding ticket... And those rights are supposed to be provided by their home country. Same reasoning we don't give the option to provide all of those amenities to the rest of the world.</p>
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As for taxes, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. They either provide a fake SSN to their employer (in which case employment tax is still payed), they use an individual EIN (in which case they're actually paying AND filing taxes), or they're being paid under the table, and still subject to vehicle tax, sales tax, and all of the various other consumption / use taxes in society.
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<p>Forced hypothesis. Try next time to look at alternatives, including the majority... I know you have it in you.</p>
<p>^ my family is full immigrant and we pay our taxes</p>
<p>I know people who are undocumented and pay their taxes too</p>
<p>This is DISGUSTING. Why give them more incentive to come here!?!?! This country is too freakin liberal!</p>
<p>And to the haikumarakuna fella, I hope you fail in your endeavors.</p>
<p>Pretty outrageous IMO. Give it to American Citizens, not someone who's gonna wire all their money back to juarez or Mexico City or whatever.</p>
<p>There are plenty of Americans who need help paying for college... help them.</p>
<p>It's privately funded. It's as if I decided to offer a scholarship to only illegals. What's wrong with someone using their own money to make it possible for someone to attend college? I personally think it is a great idea.</p>
<p>Someone way back in this thread made a good suggestion . . . help the undocumented, "innocent" kids become citizens, and then give them a scholarship. It would make a lot of this talk irrelevant.</p>
<p>Immigrants are good investments for the country. They generally work hard and if they have an education they'll be able to work harder in better jobs.</p>
<p>^ hey, to that king 18 whatever person</p>
<p>I'm on the process to get my residency ok? And my citizenship!
I also have 2 expered visas ok?
It's not like I've been here illegally and all that.</p>
<p>I just had an issue with the processing of my green card.</p>
<p>Don't be hating, it's hard... you're lucky to be a US citizen, u get federal aid.</p>
<p>I don't, yet I'm not here whining and gonna quit my educational endevours.
I'm totally legal (visas, hello?) but my green card isn't gonna be mine til next year.</p>
<p>It's a long process</p>
<p>so in the mean time, this scholarship is helping me out</p>
<p>^ ummm..? </p>
<p>btw, can't illegal immigrants apply as internationals?</p>
<p>They could if their residency was outside of the U.S.</p>
<p>But then they wouldn't be illegals.</p>
<p>The problem is that while immigration laws DO need reform, and paths to citizenship, (along with student visas/working papers and the like) DO need reform....</p>
<p>That's not something being accomplished by dedicating private funds to enroll people who are committing a crime (Or, can we start redefining what a crime is based on the number of people who do it, and how well those people are enmeshed into our culture?).</p>
<ol>
<li>I'm not racist.</li>
<li>I don't want to see fewer immigrants to this country (I'd like to see more)</li>
<li><p>I'm fully aware of the contributions of immigrants, illegal or otherwise from Mexico (which is why I want them to be able to become citizens)</p></li>
<li><p>It's absolutely messed up that we're taking this sort of scholarship in stride.</p>
<p>This point has been brought up, but I don't think anyone addressed it; Suppose a scholarship existed for solely for white students? Would that be okay? Or would it constitute people aggressively trying to enroll a demographic they cared more for than the rest of the population?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>5.How does this sort of thing NOT undermine legal immigration?
If we continue to not enforce immigration law at the border, all we will do (and one could argue we already have) is create a subpopulation that has to live in the shadows, can never fully contribute to society, and can never assimilate into or legally join that society because they'll always be criminals. What incentive is there to follow the law if the law isn't enforced?</p>
<ol>
<li>How does this sort of thing NOT undermine being a citizen?</li>
</ol>
<p>There's no advantage to being an American if you can say "Well, we're here, so, amend procedures to accommodate us". That's already happened in the way of our language.
There's rarely an advantage in areas with high numbers of illegal immigrants, because we've allowed ourselves to print things in Spanish, as opposed to expecting people that arrive for long periods of time to learn/Already have learned English.</p>
<p>This isn't a bigoted argument. When I go to a foreign country, I can't expect EVERYTHING to be provided in English for me. Even know, with English's position as the default language of commerce in the world, I can't even expect everyone I meet to speak English.</p>
<p>(Also, being proficient in English is still vital in order to succeed in the United States)</p>
<p>The reason we allow illegal immigrants to carry on like this is because we had a poor immigration/citizenship system. It couldn't meet the demand we were facing, and we just allowed the problem to balloon. The thing to do now is to address that and give these people a path to citizenship/work/student status. </p>
<p>NOT to completely ignore the failings of our immigration system and the crime these people are committing.</p>
<p>Immigrants are good for this country, especially the legal ones. There is hardly a more vigorous or dedicated group of people. </p>
<p>Illegal immigrants, however, are generally not. They also impose billions of dollars in costs, especially in health care and education. And crime is an increasing problem - and when I say this I am not trying to demonize a group - all groups have criminal elements - illegal immigrants are no different. Even uber liberal Montgomery County in Maryland is concerned about the serious nature of many such crimes that are being committed. And while some do pay taxes, many, many don't - not being judgmental but the nature of those that live in an underground economy. It is not a good bargain by any means. And at the risk of being politically incorrect, an immigration policy that has morphed into permitting millions of ill educated rurally based campesinos (and it is a shame that Latin American countries continue to adhere to one form of caudillo model or another and fail to have reasonable social programs - the Governments in 2009 are capable of far better, so we should not let them off the hook) to come work in our cities in an underground economy and somehow assimilate is bound to fail. </p>
<p>Of course, many of the left - emotional thinkers generally with very little understanding of economics - the perfect embodiment of the Obama generation (a smart guy, but really naive on economics too), disagree with me on this. But the demographics and data will bear out. Just as the good apparatchiks in Takoma Park Maryland are, my gosh, actually deigning to notice the crime and social problems (violent crime in particular), so will many others. </p>
<p>By the way, our political economy has been successful because of a respect for rule of law. Ignoring the rule of law with immigrants is done, over time, at extreme peril. </p>
<p>And don't paint me as a right wing conservative, either. I am a pro-choice, against the war, supportive of gay marriage kind of guy. I just think we need sound fiscal and labor and health care and education policies - all which are being distorted by illegal immigration. A rising tide lifts all boats - lift ours and other nations will have to do better. Modern nation states shouldn't clash, but compete in a healthy way. We don't expect countries like Mexico to do it (even though they are clearly capable), so they don't.</p>
<p>"Don't be hating, it's hard... you're lucky to be a US citizen, u get federal aid."</p>
<p>I don't want any federal aid..is that what you want?</p>
<p>I'll admit to being very conflicted on this topic. I feel for the children who had no say in their immigration, only to be told to go back to the third world environments. The other side of me says that a kid with great English and a US high school diploma might be able to find a decent/ok job. But... I've traveled in rural central America and I can see why people are desperate to get out.</p>
<p>I mostly feel sorry for the people in the refugee camps who are patiently waiting for their turn to come. How many others are in the green card lotteries and hoping year after year to gain entrance. If we suddenly have an immigration amnesty, all the people who have been doing the legal lawful thing are pushed to the end of the line. That doesn't sit well with me.</p>
<p>You asked:</p>
<p>Suppose a scholarship existed for solely for white students? Would that be okay? Or would it constitute people aggressively trying to enroll a demographic they cared more for than the rest of the population?</p>
<p>The answer is that it is O.K. and they do exist.
They are also privately gifted by groups who represent ethnic groups such as Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans.<br>
Here is a partial listing of scholarships based on ethnicities which are largely/exclusively white:
Scholarships</a> that Target White Ethnicities -- Diversity is also White</p>
<p>Click on the link above to view the (partial) list. As an aside, my white son has been awarded scholarships at 3/3 schools which have accepted him. Please don't act like whites are victims every time someone else gets something. As I tell my younger children, it doesn't take anything away from you when something nice happens to someone else.</p>
<p>mam1959, if you don't want that "criminal element," provide another path. Right now, there is NO path for kids whose parents brought them here when small, who have spent their lives here in the States, and are illegal. These kids are at high risk for dropping out of high school because there is no legal path for them into the legal working world -- they don't need a high school diploma to participate in the underground economy.</p>
<p>And I'm sorry, but your characterization of "many on the left" is absurd, but I suppose that's all you have available to you now -- your own absurdity. Have fun with that.</p>
<p>beadzbme, thanks for that list. S and I have been looking for scholarship opportunities for him and though it occurred to me to look for scholarships from, say, the local Tall Club, it hadn't occurred to me to look for one based on our heritage, and doh! for that!! </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>(It also hadn't occurred to me to look for scholarships for those with disabilities -- someone else had to point out that my S is eligible for them!)</p>
<p>@ beadz:
"it doesn't take anything away from you when something nice happens to someone else."</p>
<p>Free lunch, much? Tell that to U.S. citizens that can't qualify for financial aid, but still can't pay for college. I'm sure they're just sitting pretty when illegal immigrants are given scholarships.</p>
<p>@owlice:
"Right now, there is NO path for kids whose parents brought them here when small, who have spent their lives here in the States, and are illegal."</p>
<p>Uh...yeah, there is.
1. Return to country of nationality.
2. Apply for a student visa/citizenship.</p>
<p>My parents, a lot of my friends' parents, and ALL legal immigrants to this country, (who came either to work for their children/study), ALL legal immigrants went through the system.</p>
<p>You're right, the system needs to be changed to accommodate how many people want to be here (at least 12 million if the old figures are still true).
But saying there is a problem with the system and going to fix it, and saying "Thus, we can ignore the system" are two very different things.</p>