College scholarship for illegals only

Paying for College
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<p>quote"But, it's not like they're inhuman. Illegal immigrants are guilty of a misdemeanor, much like someone who speeds down the highway. Do you strip a person of their right to education, health care, and shelter based on a misdemeanor? We certainly don't take away those things from a speeder.</p>

<p>As for taxes, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes. They either provide a fake SSN to their employer (in which case employment tax is still payed), they use an individual EIN (in which case they're actually paying AND filing taxes), or they're being paid under the table, and still subject to vehicle tax, sales tax, and all of the various other consumption / use taxes in society.</p>

<p>Now, I'm not advocating that illegal immigration is a good thing or that illegal immigrants should be allowed to remain in the US. What I am arguing is that your extremist attitude is misguided."</p>

<p>I never said they are inhumane... You've missed the point. We don't strip a person's license from them because there are laws that protect them from that, they create restrictions. If you commit this crime (misdemeanor or felony), the law says you get a certain punishment, nothing more, nothing less than what is stated. These illegal immigrants, are not citizens!! Therefore, they do not have the right to be protected by our laws!! So just because they're breaking ONLY a misdemeanor (what the hell does that mean? they're still breaking a law) doesn't mean we should turn the other cheek. They have no rights in this country, simple as that. And your statement that most illegal immigrants do pay taxes is absurd. Most are being paid off the books where there is no cash trail to tax. I will give you there is a small minority of illegal immigrants that do as you have said but, to me, it does not matter. They shouldn't reap the benefits of stealing somebody's ID or faking a SS number, (which is a felony... is that ok to break?) </p>

<p>To all the people that justify this by saying, "oh well it's privately funded." That makes me sick. What schmuck(s) in this country, in this economy, is providing money to people that have no right to be here? Not only that but look at it from another perspective. AMERICAN students are struggling to pay for college and pay off loans, don't you think it'd be better for this privately funded scholarships to go towards those kids? The students that actually have the right to their educations...</p>

<p>If they want to be in the country so badly, apply for a visa. There's a right way and a wrong way, like I've stated before. How anybody could justify giving free money to people here illegally especially with this economy? It's ridiculous.</p>

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<p>No2EULA, as soon as you are done with high school, please move to another country (non-English-speaking) without a job, without a family, and without any social supports in that country. Stay there 10 years, then return here, and then we'll talk, okay?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
AMERICAN students are struggling to pay for college and pay off loans, don't you think it'd be better for this privately funded scholarships to go towards those kids?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Since when do people have to donate to the charities of YOUR choice, rather than ones of their OWN choice?</p>

<p>This scholarship is set up to help kids who don't have access to other money. I have NO problem with that at all. I think education is a good thing, and I think providing a path to education is a good thing, and providing money for those who want an education is a good thing. </p>

<p>You may disagree, but kindly don't presume to tell those who want to fund such a scholarship that they shouldn't do so -- they obviously think otherwise!</p>

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<p>illegal is illegal...libs sure like to dance around everything.</p>

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<p>@ Owlice:</p>

<p>I didn't realize today is non sequitur day.</p>

<p>Why doesn't your statement follow?</p>

<p>Because I'm a citizen of the U.S., and I really don't want to move anywhere else.
Your hypothetical needs to be parallel if you're going to use it to make an argument.</p>

<p>(on a side note...)
(mi Espanol es terible, ya se, sino puedo funci</p>

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<p>
[quote]

AMERICAN students are struggling to pay for college and pay off loans, don't you think it'd be better for this privately funded scholarships to go towards those kids?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No I don't, but if you do, the remedy is in your hands. Go out and fund your own scholarship. Restrict it to American citizens. Meanwhile, don't tell other private citizens what to do with their money.</p>

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<p>Mcl116,</p>

<p>You would be shocked at what the reality of the system is if you just did a little bit of research into the issues.</p>

<p>First off, they are protected by our laws. The constitution never states otherwise, and it has been ruled in the courts that anyone in our country, regardless of their legal status, is guaranteed the same protections that we have.</p>

<p>Second, the majority do pay taxes at equal or even greater rates than what a US citizen would pay. At the income levels they are at (Most below minimum wage), the federal government would not directly tax any income that they earn even if they were a citizen. Instead, they pay into the system though sales taxes. Furthermore, US citizens generally receive government aid like welfare at their income levels. Undocumented immigrants do not.</p>

<p>And its impossible for any of them to come here legally. The system as it stands right now relies on quotas that give priority to those are deemed more desirable such as engineers, doctors, or other professionals. Every year, the limited number of spots available to Mexican citizens are given to those professionals. An unskilled and uneducated laborer would literally spend decades waiting, or never even receive a Visa at all.</p>

<p>And it is a private organization, so they are allowed to do what they want. All they are doing is providing assistance to those who often can't receive any other form of help. They are here anyways, so what is so bad about educating them and helping them make OUR country more competitive in the global market? And with all the struggles that they face, shouldn't we want someone who is still able to persevere?</p>

<p>For</a> an illegal immigrant, getting into UCLA was the easy part - Los Angeles Times</p>

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<p>Oh and also...</p>

<p>These students do want to be in the United States. They won't just get an education and leave. As most of you probably don't know, higher education in Mexico is free. For these students, it would be 1000x times easier to just return to Mexico but they don't because they want to be a member of society here.</p>

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<p>owlice - my assertions are opinion, of course, but not absurd. </p>

<p>My twin brother is one of the nation's better known economists. I am not - but do run in his circles. And I have a heavy slug of education to interact with them. Even the most liberal economists quietly lament the lack of economic literacy in the ranks of the left - although to be fair conservatives are almost as miserable on the score too. I learned tax policy from the spouse of one of the most liberal members of the Supreme Court - my views don't spring out of nowhere. </p>

<p>The real problem is that we have forgotten what it means to be liberal, as in the liberalism of the early 60's, with focus on individual rights and liberty. And crucial to that culture was what drove the positive elements of the New Deal - a conviction above all else that there was a social mission to economics, and an appreciation, but not an ideological rigid devotion, to the way markets work and a desire to put them to use for balanced, yet very productive, public use. Simply put, the social mission was to avoid a Great Depression again. And to do that again requires among all of the educated class an understanding of economics. And merely squawking about wealth redistribution (a problem which I think is huge but will not be solved through taxation) does NOT reflect an understanding of economics. My criticisms are valid, real, and are really a siren call to appreciate economics once more, or more specifically, on the underpinnings of a modern, functioning capitalist state with appropriate limitations on its excesses and incentives to productivity. Keynes most certainly would agree - and accordingly your dismissal of my comments as absurd are not well grounded - but rather reflect an emotive us versus them mentality that I cannot stand about politics. I want to know what works, period. So should you, and should not so quickly run away from valid criticisms.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
These illegal immigrants, are not citizens!! Therefore, they do not have the right to be protected by our laws!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So US laws only "protect" US Citizens? How about resident aliens? Those on student visas? Those on vacation from another country? Should we change the Declaration of Independence to read "that all citizens are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."</p>

<p>In case you are not aware, all people that enter the US border are protected by US rights. That includes terrorists (and is why Guantanamo exists - if the administration allowed terrorists to cross into the US, they would immediately be granted the same rights as you) and illegal immigrants.</p>

<p>Illegal immigrants are, in fact, people. They have the same rights as humans as you and I. They may have different legal rights, but all discussion of the disposition of illegal immigrants must start and end with the preservation of basic human rights. </p>

<p>
[quote]
So just because they're breaking ONLY a misdemeanor (what the hell does that mean? they're still breaking a law) doesn't mean we should turn the other cheek. They have no rights in this country, simple as that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all, you are confused. They do have rights, just not the right to work or live in the United States. But once they are in the United States, they are afford all the same rights as you.</p>

<p>Second, you apparently don't understand criminal law. There are (generally) two types of laws, misdemeanors for minor offenses (such as drinking beer underage) and felonies for serious offenses (like murder). Illegal immigration is a misdemeanor the first time. That's normally dealt with via a small fine based on other misdemeanors. </p>

<p>
[quote]
And your statement that most illegal immigrants do pay taxes is absurd. Most are being paid off the books where there is no cash trail to tax.

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</p>

<p>No, a recent study of illegal immigrants found that a large number actually pay income tax. In addition, they all pay sales tax and other consumption and usage taxes. If you assume 10 million illegals in the US, and an average of 3 people per family, nearly half of illegal immigrants pay taxes. </p>

<p>Illegals</a> filing taxes more than ever - Tax Tactics- msnbc.com
Illegal</a> immigrants paying taxes as example of good citizenship | The San Diego Union-Tribune</p>

<p>Now, if an employer is illegal hiring someone without proper verification, that's a more serious offense (on the employer, not the worker). That employer should be seriously fined and face potential jail time. I've owned businesses and have hired employees - it's not that hard to verify that someone is legally able to work in the US.</p>

<p>
[quote]
To all the people that justify this by saying, "oh well it's privately funded." That makes me sick. What schmuck(s) in this country, in this economy, is providing money to people that have no right to be here?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Do I tell you what to do with your money? You'd be pretty upset if I started watching what you bought and criticized you for spending on something with which I didn't agree.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not only that but look at it from another perspective. AMERICAN students are struggling to pay for college and pay off loans, don't you think it'd be better for this privately funded scholarships to go towards those kids?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Money for this scholarship likely came from activists. If this scholarship didn't exist, instead of spending it on scholarships for citizens, it would likely be spent on legal defense funds for illegal immigration lawsuits.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's ridiculous

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<p>No, what's ridiculous is the second class status that you want to force on others. Just because someone was born on one side of the Mexican border, a person lucky enough to be born 100 feet away in Texas has some super human rights? </p>

<p>Illegal immigration is a problem in the US, and the administration needs to crack down on employers and better restrict border crossing. But treating those already in the US as inferior is not only morally wrong, it is diametrically opposed to the principals of the United States and to the principals of the religion of the vast majority of US citizens.</p>

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<p>^ wow</p>

<p>that's very in-depth</p>

<p>As a student on the "verge" of being considered undocumented.
Most states keep in-state tuition for undocumented students but don't offer FA</p>

<p>that said, the non-discrimination policy can work for the benefit of the students who are undocumented and wish to attend college.</p>

<p>However, it's very hard for undocumented students to do so (because of loans, work, etc.) so many of them decide to just not go or go to JC or CC</p>

<p>Many are trying to get citizenship or residency. But on personal experience, DOING IT LEGALLY is SUPER LONG</p>

<p>I have been on the process of getting a green card so I don't have to rely on VISAS and start my citizenship path. However, it takes money, time, luck, etc.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Many are trying to get citizenship or residency. But on personal experience, DOING IT LEGALLY is SUPER LONG

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The easiest way seems to be to have a baby in the US. ICE won't deport the legal guardians of a US citizen and the baby can then sponsor the citizenship of the parents.</p>

<p>I'm not saying that it's right, jut that it's the way the system works right now.</p>

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<p>I just sat on a scholarship committee and read some essays written by students who are US citizens whose parents were deported. One mom was turned in by her vindictive ex, after he was caught by ICE. As she was taken from her home in the middle of the night, she called out to her 15-year-old to take care of the younger children, which the teenager has done since then. They live with an aunt, but the aunt can't support them so the high school daughter works 25 hours per week to buy groceries and clothes for the younger kids.</p>

<p>All this is to say - ICE definitely deports legal guardians of US citizens. The girl I was just describing was not the only one in this situation in the applications I read. One boy whose parents were deported hopes to become an immigration lawyer someday.</p>

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<p>This whole situation is really messy.</p>

<p>This whole immigraton issue disgusts me, seriously, it even goes so far into treating undocumented immigrants as inferior and not as human beings.</p>

<p>And you wonder why a large part of the world hates America and its imperialistic status.....</p>

<p>well, that imperialistic status won't last long.... China, Europe, and other nations are emerging and the US is declining anyways....</p>

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<p>^ I don't deny that many who support immigration reform actually support incredibly racist policies, and not more paths to citizenship....</p>

<p>But don't ignore the law. That's still breaking it. (changing it is much more palatable/legal)</p>

<p>Also, China is clamoring to the IMF for a new super reserve currency precisely because a massive amount of their production is either the trinket industry or national pride spending (Olympics, their military).</p>

<p>The Eurozone entered recession in the third quarter of 2008, much like the rest for the world. Like it or not, American political stability (we don't have a parliamentary/coalition system), and military supremacy guarantee that even the "Get more for less!" attitude of the current administration won't derail the dollar's use as a hard currency.
The dollar will just be worth less.</p>

<p>What's the alternative? The pound? Read what Jim Rogers has to say about that - he's not the first, just the most well published. The yuan?
It's true that it's actually only slightly undervalued, but I notice they still buy our debt...There are a plethora of reasons for that...</p>

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<p>^ Although the top nations of the world are reaching a recession status, the US's recession is having the most impact across the world. I have some bibliography to back up my statement but can't find it atm.</p>

<p>Well, I can tell you as a DOCUMENTED immigrant (that is having a visa first, then taking the steps to get a green card) the whole system of " path to citizenship" is bogus. It sounds simple on paper, but actually doing it can take a good part of your lifetime.</p>

<p>I was born to US resident parents, and for me it was easier to get a B-1 Visitor visa as a child. I eventually grew up and my parents updated my Student visa, which allows me to study and other privileges in the US. About THREE years ago my parents begun the process to acquire a green card.
I can tell you just GETTING a visa is a hard process and many people are downright denied their Visas because of many reasons; although the most common one is they failed their interview.</p>

<p>The process takes money, many visits to the embassy, documentation, interviews, and even the help of a lawyer. On paper, if you have a relative who's a US resident, it's "easier" to get your Green card. Also if you've been living a good amount of your life in the US, and can prove "good moral character" and that you're been contributing to society and the community, and that you've been paying your taxes, etc. All contribute to the process of the green card.</p>

<p>I was suppose to get mine this spring, but due to the lame recession, my parents are in a tight financial situation. My dad has a little smudge on his record: tax paying delays=delay in green card processing. </p>

<p>I think once you get a green card, it's a 4-6 year wait, then do a bunch of applications, wait, take a test for English proficiency and history (which should be EASY) and then attend some interview(s) and a ceremony. How long would it take? I know many people who received their citizenship after 10 years of getting their green card... is it even worth it? I'm not sure....</p>

<p>On another point, I DO agree that there needs to be some sort of reform to a path of citizenship and more importantly, a path to a green card. The US shouldn't worry that much about immigration since a lot of immigrants are returning, not many are crossing, etc.</p>

<p>The focus should be taken into finding a way for the immigrant people to adapt to society and progress. </p>

<p>This reminds me of books I read about the Japanese and Chinese immigrants of the late 1800s and early 1900s and how they were treated with racism for a long time.
But look at them today, many are functional members of society, have advanced in education and contribute to society. THAT EXACTLY has to happen for immigrants of Hispanic decent... ADAPT to the society so the nation can ADVANCE.</p>

<p>If we look back at our history, it only makes sense since ALL immigrants, including those of Caucasian decent HAD to ADAPT to the social lifestyle, economy, culture, etc. of the US</p>

<p>By discriminating immigrants (weather legal or not), by unfair treatment, by downright preventing them to get an education, work, etc. the government is delaying the process of adaptation. I know many broke "a law" to get here, but there's also thousand of natural born Americans who do worse things...</p>

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<p>

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<p>Trust me if it was then we wouldn’t be keeping all the religious professionals employed.</p>

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<p>I am disgusted by some of the posts on here. There are a ton of kids whose parents brought them here when they were little, and if they are trying to get into college, then good for them. Chances are they worked at least as hard in school as anybody else, because they probably had to learn English!!! Any illegal immigrant who is just graduating high school was almost certainly brought here by their parents-- in other words, it wasn’t their choice! I think that most people don’t realize how hard it is to become a citizen or even get a visa, so that’s a bad excuse.
What do you expect them to do, go back to a country they might not even remember? Or just settle for a low-level job their entire lives, when they could go to college and make a difference in our country, if only people would stop being so closed minded and help them pay for it.
Good for the people offering this scholarship, hopefully it will become more common.</p>

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<p>I, too,am disgusted by many of the posts on this thread. If you are someone planning to go to college, then you should be relying on THE FACTS before spewing an opinion. GROW UP and become a COLLEGE STUDENT, instead of a nincompoop.</p>

<p>We can all have different opinions about the issue. But basing your opinion on half the facts, or none at all, shows that you are not ready for college. ANY college.</p>

<p>and half of the posts here violated the terms of use for this site, and I’ve reported it. Take that sort of garbage to a different forum where juvenile behavior is allowed.</p>

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<p>haikumarukuchan: Ignore the haters.</p>

<p>I appreciate that you’re trying to educate people who are ignorant of the facts. Maybe you’ll get one to open his/her eyes. I wish you good luck with that.</p>