<p>I'm in a debate with someone as to whether a competent but not outstanding vocalist should apply (i.e., audition, obviously) for music dept's in competitive schools. This student has few e.c.'s other than music: music would be the strongest e.c. No awards or anything, just consistent presence in touring choir since middle school. I'm sure the student would be comfortable doing a solo audition. I would just be concerned with the level of competition for application to music dept's in Universities & LAC's which require auditions.</p>
<p>GPA is 4.0, but no AP's; few or no honors classes. New SAT I about 1900. High school attending is parochial, consisting mostly of average students. Not a high-profile h.s. college admission wise: few accepted to 1st-tier schools over the history of the school; mostly they attend in-State publics & 2nd & 3rd tier privates. Student is rising senior.</p>
<p>Seeking opinions, & suggestions for matches.</p>
<p>Male or female? She might be a match (if it is a she) for Mount Holyoke, given that they don't require SAT scores. Very fine vocal teacher in Melinda Spratlan, who has trained several singers who have made it very big (including at least one at the Met.) Good but not great chorus; however, they are part of a very fine 5-college early music program, with both an all-women's and a mixed voice early music choir (the head is based at Mt. Holyoke), and the 5-College Opera Consortium. There is also community opera in Northampton.</p>
<p>She seems far more interested in the quality of the U or C than the quality of the music program, & I'm fairly sure that co-ed is being sought. Boston College & Boston U have been mentioned. Would they not be too much of reaches with her stats? Or would it be fine to apply to them without applying to the music program?</p>
<p>Competition at music schools for vocalists (not to mention other instruments) can be fierce, especially if your child is a soprano (a dime a dozen so I hear). Admission is further stressed by the type of instrument==the school may only have room for one french horn, two altos, three pianos. Out of 100 sopranos, seven may be admitted and three enroll for example.</p>
<p>Music admission is no slam dunk. Hearing the admissions counselor present at my son's high school, it was clear that the music school at this top 25 was the most difficult for admission. Not only did you have to be an excellent musician but you had to also have the grades and ecs.</p>
<p>If your child is admitted, the time commitment is extreme. My kid was at class by 8 and had to attend recitals, rehearse, study. The day didn't end until past 10 and then it was time to socialize (does exhaustion occur? you bet it does). May erstwhile musicians can't take it and switch majors for a more normal schedule.</p>
<p>Good luck, it is an exhausting process.
Geographically where does your kid want to go?</p>
<p>I sent you a PM....but I think the folks here (including me) need more info. Does your child take private voice lessons...and piano? Being a "presence" might not be significant enough. Has your child received any awards, sung any solo recitals (or plan to do one), participated in auditioned ensembles outside of school? What kind of singing does she enjoy (I can tell you that if it is not classical, she will have difficulty with the audition repertoire for a music program...most actually don't allow popular or show music at the audition). Does your child plan to major in music or does she want a choir to sing in...two VERY different things? If she plans to major in music, does she have a goal in mind for the future? What is the reason she is considering auditioning for admission to a music program?</p>
<p>Wow, I can see I really misled people here. Sorry. Thought I was clear, but obviously not!</p>
<p>Not my D. (Not writing for the friend-not-a-friend, LOL.) My older D is college-bound; younger D is a h.s. sophomore, & artistic, but would not be choosing a music major; in fact, her artistic interest would be even more difficult than the mus. major, if that's possible, so I sincerely hope she wouldn't choose the "specialty" route, either.</p>
<p>Don't know <em>all</em> the particulars of the music involvement of this h.s. senior student, but my impression is that there has been little if any stand-alone exceptional accomplishment. The choir group itself is fairly well known in its class. I do not think there have been addiitional musical commitments outside the choir group.</p>
<p>I guess we could even broaden this topic, because I think the question is important, & would apply to students much more accomplished than this.</p>
<p>In the vast majority of colleges within U's, or majors within Colleges, my knowledge is that <em>two</em> cuts have to be made by those auditioning for an artistic major: the academic cut, AND the artistic cut. Is it not true that generally the academic cut would not be artifically lowered for an artistic applicant (unless the artistry was truly outstanding, even "famous")? I would think that one would first have to be concerned whether you meet the academic standard at all for the U, before going to all that trouble to select & practice audition pieces, set up appointments, & travel to those?</p>
<p>You should know that while there are lots and lots of exceptions (the Charlotte Church clones), the majority of female classical vocalists develop their soloistic voices well past the age of 18. There are some well-known teachers, in fact, who refuse to teach bel canto and related techniques to female students before then. My favorite example is the reigning Queen of the Night at the Met, Cyndia Sieden, with whom I have been privileged to share a stage (I was just a chorister), who graduated from Evergreen with a degree in environmental studies, I think. My friend the soprano Amanda Brown did have a few voice lessons in college, but graduated from Smith with a degree in psychology. I can name several dozen others.</p>
<p>What a school with good voice teachers can do, however, is train a student in good musicianship.</p>
<p>Great points mini. So many kids think they're off to college to sing arias. Some teachers even caution the kids that those who've currently got pipes will be past their prime when those currently doing artsongs will be landing the jobs. So much of the teaching is how to protect the voice.
Now back to point--</p>
<p>If you're going to go to music school out east try the Hartt School, Mannes in New York and JHU--Peabody. We didn't look at Hartt or Mannes or Julliard---way too far away for someone we had concerns about first year adjustment (we were proved right). We did audition at JHU which is very well maintained, but the neighborhood derelicts scared the person auditioning. Me--I'm used to getting my car front window bashed in or having my license plates stolen (life in the city).</p>
<p>The way music students are accepted into their programs varies WILDLY.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Some schools require acceptance into the university BEFORE they will even schedule the audition. U of Michigan had this policy when DS was doing applications.</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools rely on the audition as the primary acceptance route for music majors and they can significantly lobby admissions if a student has an excellent audition but is not in the running academically.</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools require admission to both programs before you will receive any info. Both audition and academic requirement must be met.</p></li>
<li><p>Some, like the conservatories, really don't consider academics significantly. The audition is the only basis for acceptance.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Simply put each school has its own criteria...but they are were very forthcoming with the info when we inquired. </p>
<p>On another note (sorry for the pun), I agree with Mini that voices often do not mature before the teens or twenties. Still, a student auditioning who has not done any music study beside being a member of their high school choir (with nothing outstanding as a member of that group) would be a risky student for a school to consider as a voice major unless they had an exemplary audition...which surely is possible. Just my humble opinion.</p>
<p>The student in question will have a very hard time when it comes to music auditions without any private lessons or training. Unless he/she's someone like the great soprano Veronica Villaroel (who never had a voice lesson in her life and was plucked straight from Chile to attend Julliard), few music schools accept voice students with wanting backgrounds. Competition is extremely fierce, and the ones that walk away with the scholarships and acceptances are always to a certain degree "polished"--obviously not completely and nowhere near Met-ready, because otherwise they wouldn't be going to school! I met one girl who just began voice lessons 6 months before music school auditions were set. She went in and was unfortunately rejected by every single school she applied to--many during the pre-screening audition, before she even had a chance to sing in front of live judges!</p>
<p>But being in choir without any outside music participation is not enough. In fact, depending on the choir teacher, his/her voice may actually be <em>hurting</em>. Some choir directors don't care about the health of their singers' voices, and if they want a particular sound (like straight-toned, no vibrato), they'll demand it even if the singers don't have the technique to keep from inflicting damage on their own voices (and repressing vibrato is never a good thing!)</p>
<p>If he/she is deadset on studying music, I suggest he/she apply to schools that have non-audition music programs and good academics. All that really matters is that he/she has a good voice teacher. </p>
<p>People's replies are very helpful. Some of this info I'm sure is not so obvious, esp. as regards both voice maturity & voice protection. (BTW, the person referred to is an alto with limited range.)</p>
<p>anothersuitcase, your 3rd paragraph is exactly what I've been thinking & recommending. However, the parents are still stuck in 4.0-will-get-you-in (a great school) thinking, & are not terribly tuned in to the level of competition for NE colleges. From the whole history of soozievt's D & others, I know that the whole audition route can be much more involving than a non-music applicant's process (even including visits & interviews for the latter).</p>
<p>thumper, the variation in admissions procedures is helpful. I've e-mailed you, too.</p>
<p>musictoad, I did think of JHU. I'll suggest that to them.</p>
<p>I would also think some Catholic U's & colleges have decent vocal music programs.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>some Catholic U's & colleges have decent vocal music programs>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Yes they do. Catholic University of America (in DC) and Duquesne (Pittsburgh) have fine music programs. Both have a performance component, but are best suited for music education. Duquesne in particular has a very very fine music ed program. BUT in both cases, the admission to the music programs...all of them including music technology at Duquesne...is by audition. The Duquesne audition also includes a piano placement exam AND a theory exam and a sight singing exam (even for instrumentalists). Interviews are required of music ed majors (not performance). You must have "pass" the audition, theory exam and sight singing exam to be accepted into Duquesne's programs. To be honest, DS said the theory exam wasn't all that hard but he had 5 years of piano, an AP music theory course, three summers of music theory and choir under his belt when he took that test. While we were waiting for his audition, there were MANY kids who came in saying how hard the theory and sight singing were. Duquesne's music programs are not as competitive as some of the others, but still, there is a level of preparedness that would be necessary before an audition. The academics there are lackluster.</p>
<p>Very nice and insightful post, anothersuitcase. Very important information. A schoolmate of my D's was also active in choir and has a pleasant but not stellar voice. Even went to a performing arts academy senior year (accepted more as an academic, really). Did not get into a single conservatory level program, but did get accepted to the liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>Music, great college and less selective for reasons other than academic quality--I'd suggest giving a hard look at St. Olaf in Minnesota. Giant choral program (so someone who isn't a soloist will be welcome), nationally renown (Christmas programs show up on PBS), less selective since they are in Northfield, MN (same town as Carleton). Many Westerners don't look at the midwest, so competition should be less than East Coast schools.</p>
<p>musictoad, I thought Mannes was kind of difficult to get into. Have had a friend & an acquaintance both go there: one a long time ago, one very recently. They are both exceptionally talented, & multi-musical.</p>
<p>I like all the comments & reflections about <em>using</em> the college yrs. to train the voice, while <em>spending</em> the college yrs. on more mainstream pursuits. </p>
<p>And in light of the reality that there are no other "bragging" e.c.'s in this person's profile, I would think one would do better to use the music accomplishment as the central e.c., to attract a college that might always in need of "regulars" in their various vocal groups.</p>
<p>(And esp. because advanced h.s. academics are missing.)</p>
<p>St. Olaf's is a great idea. One of the soloists in the Detroit Opera is a graduate of St. Olaf's and loved it. Her voice didn't really mature until her late 20's.</p>