<p>My daughter, a junior, is a quite dedicated classical singer who wants a liberal arts education outside of a conservatory. So far, it seems that she will be within range to apply to an Ivy (hard to say without SAT's in hand, but so far so good with grades and PSAT's). Northwestern and NYU are also on her list. We are aware of a number of schools with music programs into which students audition for admission, but how meaningful is musical achievement in the admissions process in a university that does not admit through audition? Would a school such as Penn just count this as a major EC? Would a recommendation from her hs music teacher, from whom she will have taken five electives in the course of three years, be seen as less meaningful than a rec from a teacher in an academic subject? Thanks so much.</p>
<p>I think a talent and heavy commitment to music is a strength in your D's application package. All colleges want kids with a variety of talents and it sounds like your D has exceled in this one particular area. She could send a CD, though not necessary. But her music teacher recommendation should not be in lieu of an academic recommendation. Most schools require two (some require one) teacher rec and they mean from an academic core subject, not music. HOWEVER, your D most certainly should send a supplemental rec from someone who she has worked with closely in her music endeavors. </p>
<p>I know lots of kids who have talent in this area but have chosen not to pursue music or musical theater programs as their college major but may participate heavily in those areas as an extracurricular in college. Colleges will want such kids to fill their choral groups and shows, etc. I know some kids who are outstanding in these fields who attend Brown, Cornell, Yale and some who are applying to such schools but not majoring in this area though have great talent and interest in it. They simply want a BA in another area of liberal arts. </p>
<p>So the answer is that yes, it will be seen as meaningful. But I should qualify that assessment a bit because at very selective colleges, there will be many who have this EC or talent and I cannot tell from your post just what your D's accomplishments are in the field. So, while this EC will be significant and one they like to see, it will not stand out if she has just done school stuff. If she has done concerts outside of school or received awards in this area or won an All State Scholarship or something like that, it will be more significant then simply school choir. It is hard to say as you only mentioned her dedication (also important). </p>
<p>Hope this helps.
Susan</p>
<p>Although no one really knows how adcoms look at all the musical achievements which accompany apps, it probably is in your favor if your D has won nationally (for Ivy) recognizable awards. Statewide recognition(Allstate) is proffered by many applicants and I don't know if that would be suffcient. Last year in our app process we mixed up apps to music schools and Liberal Arts schools and D was told at some LACs that her music extras would have little to no bearing on her admission. Music audition schools are extremely tough to be admitted --so many think it's a piece of cake and they are very uninformed. It's tougher to get admitted to a music school than the regular A&S depending on the school.
D did eight auditions. It was exhausting. It is very expensive. Make sure you have a cd/tape if your child gets sick--we didn't think about this and a vocalist does get sick. Be sure to visit the schools and know their singing requirements. We were very disappointed in Northwestern's facilities--the mildew could knock you over and it's more than 40k a year to breathe those fumes. Didn't do NYU. It was a struggle with the high school administration. It was an emotional and stressful time for D. All along she had a favorite school but didn't mention it for fear of not being admitted. She did get in and it has been a great semester after getting over homesickness and illness.
Good luck</p>
<p>Most colleges have an orchestra and at least one choir that does classical music. The better the choir, the harder it is to get in, hence the proliferation of music groups, both classical and other, at schools such as Harvard or Yale, ranging from a capella, jazz, pop, opera, and classical choral music. One way to highlight your D's passion is for her to write her essay about singing. Both Harvard and Yale use the Common Application which allows for a topic of the applicant's choice. The music teacher's rec should be used as a supplemental recommendation; your D will still need two recs from teachers of academic subjects. She can also send a tape of her singing which will fine if she does not plan on being a music major.</p>
<p>We went through the audition process with our daughter, who is now a sophomore at Rice majoring in vocal performance. She, too, wanted a liberal arts education along with her music major. I wasn't clear from your post whether your daughter wants to major in music. If so, you can't do better than Rice. The music school is tops, and the academics, of course, are great. For a classical singer, we felt it was at the top. We, too, were disappointed in Northwestern. Oberlin was an option, and Indiana. I can not speak highly enough of Rice, and if you would like more information on the music aspect, I would be glad to put you in touch with my daughter.<br>
The audition process is grueling and expensive, and complicated in our case because D was a boarder at Interlochen Arts Academy and we are in Texas.<br>
Karen</p>
<p>As I was told by one college counselor, Schools don't necessarily want well rounded kids. They do, however, want a well-rounded student body and want passion in their major. Thus, if your daughter has great grades and acceptable SATs, the music specialty will help her IF:
1. She shows a true passion: Lots of shows etc.
2. She got some honors such as being on Kennedy Center, winning state honors etc.</p>
<p>The key is to have her be a "standout."</p>
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<blockquote> <p>D was a boarder at Interlochen Arts Academy>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>Don't most of the notable music programs hold auditions AT Interlochen?</p>
<p>Many of the notable programs do come to audition, but the person they send is not necessarily a specialist in your instrument, so they make tapes. We were told it is better, unless it is a school not at the top of your list, to go audition in person. Besides, it gives you a better feel for the school and faculty. One thing my D liked so much about Rice was that the "jury" invited her down off of the stage to sit and visit with them. It was very welcoming and friendly. She did audition for Oberlin at Interlochen, and felt the audition went poorly. She got in anyway, though. K.</p>
<p>I got the impression from the original post that the daughter is not looking to major in vocal performance but would prefer to go to a liberal arts school, possibly an elite school, with hopes that her dedication to music will be seen as a significant extracurricular and achievement. At such schools, as Marite also explained, there are numerous quality music groups for students like her who are not majoring in music. There are many strong academic students who also have a passion in music who end up at elite schools and wish to continue being in choral groups, a capella groups, band/orchestra, etc. On a parent weekend at Brown, I must have seen 10 diifferent a capella groups for instance, and that is not counting their formal choirs and all. I THINK that is the kind of student that the poster was talking about. So my feeling is that her EC will be seen as meaningful as they want kids who will be in their music groups. It is just that MANY kids have that talent so any achievements that stand out, only help further. </p>
<p>Taxguy, I must smile at your post because what you say is true for a student like the one being posted about.....where there is some sort of significant achievement beyond the high school level....helps in admission to a selective college. I wish the examples you gave also would help a kid like mine pursuing a BFA degree which is extremely competitive and by audition (not what this poster was looking for) and I am afraid that those achievements are not going to mean a lot and it is going to come down to the audition, plus many of the kids she is "competing" against for a slot also have such achievements....but I realize if my D was going for a BA like this person's daughter, that perhaps such achievements like the ones you list that she has on her resume WOULD help, but alas she is not going for a BA. She does have over 40 shows, state awards and has performed at the Kennedy Center, and a national award but I think her profile is not a stand out among those going for the degree she is striving for but would be beneficial to a kid going for a BA in a selective college who has this as an extracurricular passion. If only.....LOL. In my D 's case, it is going to boil down to her audition, I think. I think many kids vying for conservatory type programs are standouts and that is the problem! But for a BA in liberal arts, this kind of profile may very well be an asset on the application! </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Having had a daughter in exactly Nester's situation, I would say that unless it's a truly national class talent -- national competition honors, professional performances, etc. -- a musical interest won't count for much more than any other EC at an elite college, and most certainly won't overcome any deficiencies in academics. I hope everyone here understands the critical difference between a music performance program at a conservatory (whether freestanding like New England Conservatory or part of a larger school like Rice) and "doing" music as part of a general liberal arts degree. If you audition for conservatory admission, it's ALL about your performance abilities. Also, you will spend 80 percent of your time or more on music, with non-musical studies at the periphery.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>you will spend 80 percent of your time or more on music, with non-musical studies at the periphery>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>Actually, once some required liberal arts courses are done (even conservatories have a couple of those), you are spending 100% of your time on your music if you are a performance major.</p>
<p>Well, our experience is that it does help. S was solid academically, but not in a way any different from thousands of other students turned down from his school. His only major EC was his music. He'd won no awards (not even regional, much less state level), but his commitment was extensive--concert band, marching band, orchestra, brass ensemble, jazz band, and a regional (centered in our town) youth band. He held several leadership positions, but was not a musical standout. But, since he did get accepted to a very selective school, I have to think that the level of involvement helped, regardless of the level of achievement.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt might be good candidate school to explore.</p>
<p>I'll second simba on Vanderbilt.
About Rice-- a small warning. Students' ability to avail themselves of Rice's non-musical opportunities is partly dependent on their teachers. A sizeable number of teachers there are outright opposed to their students double-majoring, taking an academic minor, or anything like that. The specific teachers I'm thinking of are in the string department, but it's something to watch out for. Ask your potential teacher directly about his/her feelings about liberal arts classes.</p>
<p>I just wanted to thank you all for the very helpful info.</p>
<p>Wanted to follow the thanks with a question. My daughter is auditioning at the local and state levels over the next couple of months. Some of you have mentioned awards at the national level. I was wondering what national competitions or programs exist for h.s. classical vocalists other than the national arts award program? (Can't think of the name; connected to an arts week in Fla. for finalists.)</p>
<p>You are thinking of the ARTS competition (Arts Recognition Talent Search). My D was a finalist 2 years ago, and that was the only national competition Interlochen had her enter in her senior year. She is a classical singer. K.</p>
<p>Nester, I am not aware of any national awards other than NFAA ARTS Awards as you mentioned and so did Karen. State wide there are often not only All States but in our state there are state scholarship winners too....yes, all these can be for classical voice. I don't have any other national award resource for you but you likely can do some searches.</p>
<p>I have often wondered this: Say, for example, you are first chair in the orchestra for violin and you want to submit a music supplement. How is one to know that they are good enough in the context of a national applicant pool?</p>
<p>Hi everyone:</p>
<p>I'm think I may have found the right thread. I located the one for musical theatre originally, but think I am better off here. My daughter is looking to major in classical voice and has submitted her CDs to Juilliard and Manhattan School of Music for audition consideration. Alternatively, she has applied to programs at NJ State schools (Rutgers (Mason Gross), Rowan, William Paterson, Kean and Montclair State). Does anyone have any information or a resource they could point me in to tell us which of these will give her the most exposure to faculty/career. Thanks!</p>