College creates great memories, but it can also be stressful at times. A mix of work and fun can be possible, but it an be changed in a different way. As you can see, some people aren’t cut out for college, but some classes in college are unnecessary for our future. I understand that it’s important to learn basic information before we graduate, but the whole US education system isn’t the best as you can see in this video:
Now, I’ll cut out the only problem that will fix everything:
Cut our grading: People then will ask: Then what’s the point of going to class if there’s no grading? No, you go to class to learn about your major and how to live life after college, maybe teaching us how to adjust to the real world would help us out in the long run. There will still be other classes to take here and there, but not history or any other classes that can easily involve you reading any book about it. Even then, I probably sound like a lazy, no good millennial who just wants to go to college to start living on their own. But when you think about it, that’s what real life is all about, minus the college part.
On an extra note, it also depends on what jobs require a college degree or not.
Do you trust young adults to put in the work to learn the material if they’re not required to?
Because I don’t.
Note: Not excluding myself – I’m thinking particularly of the weekly problem set in my computer science class that we “should” do but is not graded. I just don’t do it. It’s so easy to set aside when I have two to three other problem sets that ARE worth points.
Are you doing poorly in your classes? If so start going to office hours and go for tutoring. You have to put in the effort if you want good grades. In your other post you ask is it ok to have between a 2.0 and 3.0 gpa. Once you start with a low gpa it is very hard to recover from that and if you need to go to grad school in the future you will have difficulty getting admitted.
Weirdly enough, I do agree with you. And no, I’m not doing poorly in my classes, quite the opposite actually. Unfortunately though, I think many students are simply not motivated enough by learning. Grades force them to care, at least for the semester or quarter they are taking that course.
I’m not doing poorly in any of my classes either, but basically, I’m saying that the only source of motivation for students is grades. Maybe we should find another thing besides grades that’ll keep the motivation while in college? How about if your dream job requires you to get a degree, then go to college. If college isn’t for you, then you can always enter the real world right after high school.
“Go to Reed. No grades.” This is not at all correct. Reed students definitely do receive grades in all their classes. In fact, the school is known for being academically challenging, and for an element of grade deflation. While grades are recorded on their transcripts, students don’t receive their grades unless they ask for them. Moreover, papers/tests are returned with comments rather than just a simple letter grade.
How would that change anything? I’m already going to college in pursuit of a degree, and it’s not really making doing my compsci homework any more appealing. Or the reading for my energy elective.
I don’t care about your motivation or whether or not you’re enjoying college.
But I don’t want a doctor who couldn’t score highly enough to pass the necessary exams. I don’t want a lawyer or an accountant who can’t prove he knows his stuff. I don’t want my kids taught by a teacher who can’t prove his knowledge.
Teaching you “how to adjust to the real world” is your job. The hope is that your parents planted the seeds when you were 6.
“The real world” requires you to prove yourself. I’ve been teaching since 1980, but still have an annual review. I don’t know of anyone in any job who isn’t held accountable for his or her job performance. Your job as a student is to learn material, and grades provide that accountability.
You’re right-- not everyone is cut out for college. That’s why it’s not compulsory.
You could certainly audit classes for pure enjoyment. But if you’re going to earn a degree, and at some point get a job based on the knowledge that degree represents, then you should be able to prove that the knowledge is there. And those extra classes— like the history class you mention-- help prove that the degree holder is a well rounded educated adult. As a math teacher, I’ve helped my students in ways that don’t involve math. I spoke of history on 9/11 and yesterday I helped 3 seniors in my study hall with their college essays. I’m on a committee that writes a high school entrance exam, and my input on the grammar and spelling sections is absolutely part of that job.
I’m sorry, but in my opinion, your idea simply screams “Everyone gets a trophy.”
“But I don’t want a doctor who couldn’t score highly enough to pass the necessary exams.”
I don’t want to drive over a bridge or go into a building where the structural engineers who verified that it would stay up never got a grade in university. There is a lot of very hard work that is necessary in order to learn engineering.
I don’t want a doctor, and engineer or a lawyer who can’t think critically. I want them all to have the skills to do their job and the wisdom to understand their patients, clients and the people driving across the bridges they build. Classes in history, sociology and art would all be helpful. Engineers may need a bit of environmental science and pediatricians could use a child/family psych class. There is a reason the MCAT now includes an entire section on social science.
As for learning to live in the real world, I agree that those lessons begin at home. I am also an advocate of bringing back Home Economics to high school. Learning to cook, sew, budget, manage a household etc… would be good skills for college students to know BEFORE they arrive on campus. Update the curriculum to include job search/interviewing skills and I think we solve some of these issues. I was lucky enough to be the granddaughter of a Home Ec teacher and tried to pass the skills she taught me on to my children.
I was a learning coach for my kids when they schooled from home with an online public school with
“No Grades”
It was an incredible year of academic growth for my D, and I think a large part of her success when she hit college material. There were pre-tests for every lesson and if the score was 90% or better the student skipped the lesson and moved on. If the student scored less than 90%, the student worked through the lesson plan and took the lesson test. If they had a score less that 90%, they repeated the lesson and test until 90% was achieved.
You skipped ahead if you already knew it, and didn’t move on to new material until you had competency in a new skill. There were no letter grades, just a progress bar.
Kids were always pushed into unknown territory to master, but not so far that they became lost.
But life is always graded anyway. After you graduate, if you are an employee, you will have performance review; if you are a CEO, your company’s stock price performance will be your grade, and if you are a politician, your reelection will be your grading system. So get used to it.
@BuckeyeMWDSG Those pretests you mention…they needed grades of 90 or better to move on. So, while it wasn’t a traditional was of doing assessments, they still had to prove through testing that they knew 90% or more of the material.
I was thinking of this thread driving to work. I want my doctor to know the history of Thalidomide. I want my engineer to know of the 1900 Galveston hurricane and the Moore OK and Joplin tornadoes. I want the educated people I deal with to know their history and some philosophy and economics.
From a structural engineer, thanks for that! Very true. I often wonder how even the people who were C students manage to design any structures. I think if the general public knew how complicated structural analysis and design are, they would be hesitant to go in any buildings!
Yes, there was testing and a means to assess competency. People fall to grading because they think that is the only system to measure and assess competency, it’s not. Every child that moved through the year had mastered every skill in that grade and those that walked into the year with mastery were moved into lessons that challenged them.
Traditional schools bore kids that know the answers. A’s don’t necessarily reflect a growth in knowledge. The progressive learning system isn’t set up to ‘grade’ students by dividing them into A, B, C, D categories. It is set up with very specific expectations for students to rise to. That is more of a real world experience.
Your boss cares if the job is getting done. If you stayed up all night to do it, or it took you five minutes he wants an expected outcome. I’ve never had a boss who lined me up to announce Bob is an A, Sue is a B, Dave is a C etc. Imagine how that would feel? But we do that to fourth graders all the time.
I know supposedly report cards are confidential and kids don’t need to share, but then why are the honor roll lists “All A’s” printed and released?
There are very bright kids I know that define themselves as B students who have the capacity to challenge themselves, but are tied to an identity handed to them in fourth grade. If they get a C, they work a little harder. If they get an A, they think the teacher is an easy grader.
The pre-test, learn, re-test method increases knowledge and skills. Isn’t that the goal of education?
@BuckeyeMWDSG
There are MANY public (and other types of) schools that do grading very differently than you describe. Many standards based schools don’t give “A-F” grades like you seem to think. Many engage in the pre-test, learn, re-test method that you describe, as well as use rubric grading and other types of grading, depending upon the content and subject and goal of instruction.
And really, by requiring 90% proficiency on a unit before moving to the next as you describe: that’s just requiring everyone to get an “A” when you think about it.
As for adults: the federal government actually requires that public teachers be awarded scores, so yes, there are professions where people are lined up and given scores like you seem to think doesn’t happen. I’m not saying this is right, but it is the reality of the working world for many.
Grading is a very complex subject. Public education has changed a lot. Be careful assuming things are as they used to be years ago.
In addition to Reed College New College of Florida also does not have grades, we have narrative evaluations instead which allows for much more flexibility in some students ability to take in material.
@Springbird I know there are public schools that focus on standards achievement without resorting to labeling children. I was lucky enough to have a child in one and loved the environment. I simply wish there were more.
When “you think about it” 90% is an A.
When “I think” about it the reward is the next lesson becomes available.