Why Do Colleges Want to See Grades?

<p>This is an honest question, which I feel deserves a legitimate answer:</p>

<p>1) What does a grade mean?</p>

<p>The general thought is that a grade signifies one's mastery of a subject or their ability to apply the concepts and ideas present from a course. However if grades are to represent a universal idea of achievement then why can't I compare an A in english to an A in math? Yes, I understand that they are two completely different subjects, but if grades are to mean anything then there needs to be some underlying comparison or even a point.</p>

<p>Despite the fact that a C vs an A may generally fit a description of a student, it fails to account for the growth of a student throughout a course. Perhaps the C student struggled but developed a passion and ability in a subject while the A student was satisfied with his current abilities. Growth, individuality, passion cannot be represented in a simple letter grade, so why do colleges care so much about it when they stress the need for "individual" (in thought, action, and perspective) students.</p>

<p>2) Why does a college care?</p>

<p>In a sense I guess its a nice neat way to statistically assess a student. To shove them into a box and decide yes/no. I remember last year someone posted a video showing Dartmoth's admission process in action, and they scoffed at a transcript of a student who recieved a D in a class. I find it odd, that schools who hope to educate leaders want to make sure their students are those who have never experienced failure. Students who have always succeeded at the things they try, and most importantly students who remain within in their limits. </p>

<p>I am not saying that students should be discouraged from "having a life," but I am saying that students are generally discouraged from tackling subjects that they know they are weak in. So why do colleges care so much about grades when they have the tendency to show very little. If anything, they discover whether or not a student has encountered a subject that he/she found too difficult. I guess thats a trait that current higher education dislike - people who have learned what its like to hit a brick wall.</p>

<p>3) So back to my original question: "Why do colleges want to see grades?"</p>

<p>In a time when admissions officers express concerns for the kind of students that they are creating, I find it sad that they do not offer anything other than a vague answer or solution to the problem. They keep saying that they want to see a developed individual student, but they hold onto the past system of student evaluation. </p>

<p>I think its getting to the point that colleges need to re-examine the need for the information that they are asking from students, and they need to find a way to promote the creation of individual students exploring their passions vs students who rely on exams and scores to get to college.</p>

<p>Brief bio: I got to Harvey Mudd, yes I was a class val, senior year I scraped out a low C- in an english class; however it reshaped my view on life far more than any other class I recieved an "A" in. My regret? I wish I wasnt afraid of failing a foreign language course and wouldve been independent enough to accept an F if it happened.... to bad thats an automatic rejection from a college.</p>

<p>where is this Dartmouth video?</p>

<p>And why do colleges want to see your SAT score, ECs, recs and so on?
It all comes down to the same: they need some criteria to decide which students to admit.</p>

<p>Colleges are academic institutions. Grades are a system to compare academic acheivement with other students. Therefore, colleges look at grades. Personal growth, character qualities, passion, and all that stuff is literally bs. There is no way you can convey your life story to an admissions officer for them to know who you are. What would you do? Send them a bunch of home videos of all your greatest moments? Write them a novel? And even if you could, they would still probably take the people who do better academically, because they want successful students.</p>

<p>All I see is that you regret working so hard to be class val.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
Despite the fact that a C vs an A may generally fit a description of a student, it fails to account for the growth of a student throughout a course. Perhaps the C student struggled but developed a passion and ability in a subject while the A student was satisfied with his current abilities.

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>That is why colleges look for the grade trend. C in freshman and sophomore will not hurt as much as C in junior and senior classes.
Realistically, admission counselors cannot easily determine the motivation that a C or A student has. The simple truth is that selective colleges have an abundant supply of "A" applicants who are over-achieving, apparently motivated and even willing to sue to get in! MIT says that they are looking for students who are not afraid of failures. They are not fooling anybody!</p>

<p>
[Quote]
If anything, they discover whether or not a student has encountered a subject that he/she found too difficult.

[/Quote]

Assume that the selective colleges declare that they want to see kids take and persist in one or two courses that was too hard (for the kid). May be the colleges can also say that a note from the teacher is needed to support the motivation and persistence part. Then, you can bet that everybody will easily meet that requirement. It is very easy to show work and interest and get a 'C' or 'D'. What good will that do? Again the applicants will have to be judged on the test scores, "A" grades/subjects and recs. Back to square one. </p>

<p>
[Quote]
way to promote the creation of individual students exploring their passions vs students who rely on exams and scores to get to college.

[/Quote]

If my public high school is a typical example, I can see why the changes you advocate will not have much of an impact. Generalizing from watching my 500-odd classmates, most H.S. kids have no passion to accomplish anything great. They just want to live, enjoy life, eat, sleep, watch sports, go to movies, listen to music, talk with and about each other and just have fun. Classwork is a necessary burden for them. Then there is a sizable minority who take this burden seriously - constantly work for their "A"s- , try to do useful EC some of which they are passionate about, sleep 2 - 5 hours a day and all apply to the same 25 top-ranked colleges.<br>
My point is that even if the selective colleges publish a new criteria for admission it is not going to help create a huge bunch of passionate kids exploring their passions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And why do colleges want to see your SAT score, ECs, recs and so on?
It all comes down to the same: they need some criteria to decide which students to admit.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>True, however AP Math at one school is NOT the same as AP math at another school. APs and SATs on the other hand are universal, and despite the fact that I may feel that they do not a good job of such testing the fact stands that everyone takes the SAME test.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Colleges are academic institutions. Grades are a system to compare academic acheivement with other students. Therefore, colleges look at grades. Personal growth, character qualities, passion, and all that stuff is literally bs.

[/quote]

**<strong><em>? I hope youre kidding becuase grades are not a true predicator for success in college and in future life. I hope you do realize that there is a lot more to "being a good student" than achieving a high end grade or taking the most advanced class. You want to know why I think you think personal qualities are *</em></strong>*? Becuase you dont have them. You dont have the guts to voice your opinion, to go against the grain, and to fight for your beliefs if it jeopordizes your position.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There is no way you can convey your life story to an admissions officer for them to know who you are.

[/quote]

Who said you needed to? You can easily convey your abilities in a class by the way a teacher talks about you... or are you just afriad that you blend in with the class so much that you wont be recognized? If you were really "smart" then you would know how to go above and beyond, not in terms of doing more work, but doing more with your work.</p>

<p>Perhaps you were the quirky kid who made a trebuchet (physics/engi), who learned the biological processes of beer brewing(biology), who developed your own user-interface(CS), who read a ton of books and wrote your own collection of personal essays (hum), who found quirky little equations (math), who simulated some reaction(chem).</p>

<p>You dont HAVE to do more work, you just have to do things you find FUN. I dont see why you think this would be hard to show....</p>

<p>All I see is that you regret working so hard to be class val.</p>

<p>I passed the editing time limit so...</p>

<p>
[quote]

All I see is that you regret working so hard to be class val.

[/quote]

Actually I dont. But I dont accredit the perspective I gained from life from my class val status, but by some of the teachers who encouraged me to read material that was extremely enlightening.</p>

<p>
[quote]

The simple truth is that selective colleges have an abundant supply of "A" applicants who are over-achieving, apparently motivated and even willing to sue to get in! MIT says that they are looking for students who are not afraid of failures. They are not fooling anybody!

[/quote]

First I know this is a small section of your post, but it represents something that I agree with. I do not think changes will revolutionize how students "try" to get into college, but I do think that it could greatly discourage such behaviors.</p>

<p>As far as grades go, I agree that students need to demonstrate aptitutude for the things they plan on doing. However, I feel that they should not discourage say a sciency student from taking more hum related courses without hurting him becuase they do good/bad.</p>

<p>**<strong><em>? I hope youre kidding becuase grades are not a true predicator for success in college and in future life. I hope you do realize that there is a lot more to "being a good student" than achieving a high end grade or taking the most advanced class. You want to know why I think you think personal qualities are *</em></strong>*? Becuase you dont have them. You dont have the guts to voice your opinion, to go against the grain, and to fight for your beliefs if it jeopordizes your position.</p>

<p>I never said that grades were a perfect predictor, but they are much better than this imaginary system that you cannot even explain. You really contain great personal qualities if you start flaming anyone like crazy if their opinion differs from yours. And I didn't say personal qualities are bs in life, I said they are bs in applications. Since you can't prove them.</p>

<p>Who said you needed to? You can easily convey your abilities in a class by the way a teacher talks about you... or are you just afriad that you blend in with the class so much that you wont be recognized? If you were really "smart" then you would know how to go above and beyond, not in terms of doing more work, but doing more with your work.
Perhaps you were the quirky kid who made a trebuchet (physics/engi), who learned the biological processes of beer brewing(biology), who developed your own user-interface(CS), who read a ton of books and wrote your own collection of personal essays (hum), who found quirky little equations (math), who simulated some reaction(chem).
You dont HAVE to do more work, you just have to do things you find FUN. I dont see why you think this would be hard to show....
All I see is that you regret working so hard to be class val.</p>

<p>So now admissions should be based just on how much a teacher liked you? How is that better than grades? So, instead of how hard you work and your mental abilities, you should be let in because someone who teaches you for one year likes you a lot. Screw smart kids, let the brown nosers in! And I don't go above my work? I definitely did, but I'll let you keep assuming that you actually know me. Second of all, I didn't take the hardest courses, or even get that great grades, because I didn't think grades were a good way to show that either. I dropped to barely 10% of my class and its screwing me over when I'm applying to college, especially since my SAT scores are very high. I can't get any of those academic scholarships I need.</p>

<p>Don't completely bash something and then don't provide an alternative, and then act like your right. Your not right about anything, your just complaining. If every student sent in a self made project for college admissions they would never finish deciding who to accept. Also the teacher recs over grades is just laughable.</p>

<p>so Slak, if you were an admissions officer, what would you look at if you didn't look at the applicant's grades at all?
it's not like you're offering a reasonable alternative anyway.</p>