College suggestions please!

College Search & Selection
1

Hi!

I’m a senior studying at an international school in China. I began my college search, and am looking into regular decision unis (am EAing to HKUST and MIT). However, I don’t know which colleges I should apply to, and I really want to go for ones that I have a decent chance of getting into. I attend an IB school, so we don’t do the usual GPA stuff, but here goes:

GPA: 3.8/4.0? I asked my counselor what my GPA would be, and she told me since we don’t do GPAs in our school, she would give me an estimate. So that’s the estimate ^

SAT I: 1570, 780RW/790M. 22 Essay. Not superscore.

SAT II: Am planning to take math and physics in two weeks

AP: AP Calc BC, 5. Took this in sophomore year

In G9, I didn’t do too well, got a 5 for science and 6 for English and humanities.
In G10, started off pretty bad (3, 4 for English), but soon got 7s across the board for MYP subjects.

IB courses:
Physics HL, G11 S1 7, G11 S2 7
Chemistry HL, G11 S1 7, G11 S2 7
Economics HL, G11 S1 7, G11 S2 7
Math HL, G11 S1 7, G11 S2 7
Chinese B SL, G11 S1 7, G11 S2 7
English A SL Lang & Lit, G11 S1 6, G11 S2 7

Some awards:
G10 Chinese academic award
G10 Math Extended academic award
G11 Math HL academic award
G11 Clarkson Engineering award + scholarship

Extracurriculars/:
-School math club (10-12), leader (11-12)
-Ran math workshops in school, mainly on SAT math, some to middle school about math application in real world issues
-Secretary of fair trade club. We basically contact local farmers and farmers from rural areas to establish direct contacts with people in our community who are willing to buy veggies and such, so that the farmers get most of the revenue (9-12)
-“Migrant School”, teaching English to children from migrant backgrounds and arranging activities that can involve them in possible future interests (11-12) (e.g. sports, baking, crafting, etc.)
-Self-taught piano (~12) (Learned for a year or so when I was in elementary). I wouldn’t say I’m good, but I play quite a lot during free time and I really enjoy it.
-Varsity table tennis (9-12), captain (10-12)
-College-level math self study. I plan to take the IB Further Mathematics exam as extra credit in my final exam – it’s basically a mix of all the IB math options: discrete maths, linear algebra, stats&prob, calculus, geometry, sets&relations. (11-12)

Recs:
One from my math teacher, he really supports me and I would say he thinks pretty highly of me, given my interest in math
One from my economics teacher. I actually don’t know how this will turn out to be. I work pretty hard and get good grades, but then everyone else in our class does as well so…

I would like to study computer science & math in university as double major, possibly computer science & business.
My parents can’t really afford to pay more than $20,000 a year, which is why I’m throwing one app into MIT EA; they are need-blind. For some background, my father does earn ~$100,000 before tax, but I have a younger sister who also attends a international school which is like $45,000 per year, for her alone. We used to get financial support from my dad’s company, but then he was called back to Korea (home country) and we decided to stay one more year to see my education finished. So, some considerations might be:
-Generous financial aid to international student
-Strong in computer science
-I am also planning to attend grad school, if this matters

I’m fine with dedicating most of my time in studying and researching, but would like a little bit of breathing time as well. For example, from what I heard, studying at Carnegie Mellon would require almost non-stop studying, which isn’t exactly what I’m looking for.

ANY suggestion will be deeply appreciated. Thanks in advance!

2

Forgot to mention explicitly – I’m a South Korean male studying abroad.

3

Bump. Is there a reason noone is giving any advice? If I’m lacking information, please do comment, would appreciate it.

4

It is tough for an international student to get accepted someplace for $20K/year, which is probably one reason you have few suggestions.

5

Fair enough. It doesn’t have to be T20 or anything though – if it has strong computer science programs and generous aid, I would be content enough.

6

In my case, I find that students that include MIT on their-short list often prefer a certain distinctive type of educational environment that strongly overlaps, in its essence, with relatively few U.S. schools (e.g., Caltech, RPI, Rice . . .). Though this might not be entirely correct, to the extent that it’s partially true it can make further recommendations more challenging. Also, many top US schools do not offer undergraduate majors in business, so that’s another factor that might limit your choices.

However, if you simply would like a well-funded option that would be excellent for fields such as computer science and math, look into Hamilton.

https://www.hamilton.edu/news/story/comp-sci-department-hosts-college-computing-conference

https://www.hamilton.edu/news/story/mathletics-team-freezes-out-competition-in-snow-bowl

7

Overall, though, I think your initial post was nicely detailed, and I would expect you to receive further suggestions within the next day or two.

S/B “their short-list” (reply #5)

8

I think you are going to struggle with finding a school in the US that will meet your budget.

Also, I don’t understand how MIT would require less studying than CMU. If you don’t want that kind of environment, you aren’t targeting the right schools.

Do some searching on the international forum about schools with generous aid. They are few and far between even for students with your great stats.

9

@merc81 Hamilton seems really nice. I haven’t looked into liberal arts colleges much, but I really like the idea of a small-sized school and it being need-blind. I’m definitely going to research a bit more and discuss with my parents over phone when they’re free from work. Thank you so much for the amazing recommendation!!

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@momofsenior1 I had no idea there was a forum for internationals. I’m looking at the pinned posts RN, and will of course do more research. Thanks :slight_smile:

11

I echo comments made so far. Regarding CMU and your stated dislike for ‘non-stop studying’, that would seem to rule out MIT. You should specify what you would like in your college experience, such as ‘study hard, play hard’, active Greek Life scene, big time sports, urban-suburban-rural, etc. But, recognize that you will likely have to make significant trade-offs regardless of your preferences, as a budget of $20K COA is very limiting for international students.

Need-blind schools that meet full need for international students is a small list, I am sure you know those schools will all be reaches. Schools that are need aware in admissions for international students, but provide significant fin aid, should also be on your list. You can also look into schools that offer merit-based scholarships open to international students, but of course they are very, very competitive, such as Wesleyan’s Freeman Asian Scholarship (which I think you meet the criteria to apply) or Washington and Lee’s Johnson Scholarship or UNC/Duke’s Robertson Scholars. Also, what is the Clarkson engineering award/scholarship you noted? Is that Clarkson University? Is that a possibility?

It will take a significant amount of time to research your options. Lendedu.com actually has a recent list of colleges that provide aid to international students, that list is a good starting point for research. Hamilton is a decent recommendation as are most of the other NESCAC schools. Do you have a school guidance counselor that can help you target schools and navigate this process? Engaging on CC’s international forum is a good idea too. But, you are in a situation where it may make sense to hire an experienced educational consultant to do research and manage the process, which requires significant time and attention to detail.

12

Just to clarify on ‘need-blind / meets full need’: each college/university gets to decide what they think your need is. Your family will have to provide a LOT of personal financial info, and from that you get a financial aid offer. From here, my guess is that $100K pre-tax + tuition for sister at $45K + whatever they are paying for you = there is more money than just salary.

Im (limited) e international schools in China have really strong college advisors- are you using yours?

13

If CMU is going to require too much studying, then MIT will also, MIT is probably about as much work as any university anywhere. “Breathing room” is not what MIT is known for. Studying there has been compared to drinking water from a fire hose.

You should run the NPC on a few “meets full need” universities in the US and see what it says your expected contribution would be. Don’t forget to also take travel costs into account. If you google “net price calculator MIT” then you will find the one for MIT.

“I am also planning to attend grad school,”

IMHO you should avoid debt for undergrad if you can.

You are going to be hard pressed to find a university in the US with a total cost of $20,000 unless you get quite a bit of financial aid. Schools in the US which meet full need are rare, and tend to be very competitive, particularly for international students.

There are some universities in Canada which will come pretty close to your US$20,000 number. Four that you might want to consider are Memorial University of Newfoundland, Dalhousie, Simon Fraser, and the University of Victoria. When checking the prices for these keep in mind that listed prices are in Canadian dollars.

14

@DadTwoGirls the OP would probably find Memorial to be a massive culture shock, and is many tiers down academically from MIT and CMU. I’ve heard that SFU is decent for CS…not so sure about Dalhousie or UVic.
McMaster might not be a bad choice, but I’m not sure about the cost.

15

Graduate studies programs often provide a stipend, so I’m not sure how the OP’s goal with respect to this particularly relates to undergraduate financing.

16

Thank you all for your suggestions. I really really appreciate them!!

I do realize the importance of working with my high school counselor. I’m just a bit concerned as the US is not her speciality; she comes from the UK and this is her second year here, which is probably why I only got generic advice from her when I said I was looking into US colleges. She recommended Amherst to me, since it is also need-blind, but I attended their information session and did a bit of research, and found out that their computer science, and sciences in general, was quite weak. I had told her CS was my primary interest a couple of times… And I was more concerned with the early applications, as she is leaving school from 16th to 29th of October, which is basically just before Early applications. Next week is holidays, the week after is senior week where we’re not in school, so from now to early applications deadline, we pretty much don’t have opportunities to contact her (except emails, but she’s only available next week).
Also, I would prefer a suburban/rural setting, and although I’m not familiar with the American education culture, I would say I’m probably leaning towards “study hard play hard” - not the party kind of play, but play piano, draw, relax and listen to music kind of play; I just want some personal time. I was scared by some of the CMU talks online and what my friend, who visited CMU, said: that their guide told my friend that he sleeps 3hrs a day. I really like sleeping at least 7~8 hours a day, so I didn’t think CMU would be a good choice for me. So would MIT be similar? I can handle intense workloads, I study a hefty lot, but I’m not looking for the 15 hours study a day kind of workload…
@Mwfan1921, Yes, the Clarkson engineering award is from Clarkson University, and I believe it’s a variation of their Academic Scholarship handouts, which is basically $12,000 of support per year. However, I saw on their website that their fees amount to ~$60k for internationals, which is why I was hesitant to approach the university, as the total cost will still be high. I was thinking of applying there for safety though. I looked into the scholarships, and boy they are competitive. I’ll have to research more into this, maybe talk to my HS counselor for information… maybe.
@DadTwoGirls Right. The main reason I added that I will be attending grads was because, I think, I assumed there are schools that give you advantage when applying to higher ranked grad schools. I’m not too sure why exactly I included that.

I will be looking at the universities you all suggested, I’m was a bit busy these few days. Again, I really appreciate all your comments.

17

Past 15 minutes since my comment and I can’t edit. Things to add:

I don’t know why I didn’t include this in the original post, but our financial situation is short term. My dad works as a diplomat and will probably be called to an embassy in another country within three years. We won’t have to worry about my sister’s tuition fees then, since it will be covered by the embassy. So I’m only looking for aid for perhaps the first two years of uni.

I just tried a few aid calculators, MIT’s and Hamilton’s, but it is for US citizens only.

18

The distinction between “need blind” and “need aware” should not unduly concern you. If you get in, well, you’re in. “Meets full need for all accepted students, including internationals,” will be the key to affordability for you.

“Work hard, play hard” commonly refers to an atmosphere different from what you appear to be seeking. It seems you would like what I’d regard as a balanced environment. For this, look for schools with students with varied interests. The availability of participatory sports, an active outing club, musical and other performing arts groups and assorted clubs of all types will be a good sign.

Academically, you’ve given several indications that you would like to study broadly. Beyond looking for the availability of an appropriate and interesting 12-14 required and elective offerings in CS, you may enjoy perusing catalogs for appealing offerings in a range of natural sciences and math, humanities and fine arts and social sciences. The totality of your choices will constitute your education. You may also want to study abroad from your US base.

You do not need to go in an overall “tech” direction with your college choice. CS is tech, irrespective of the broader environment in which you choose to study it. Distinctions along these lines will help you determine a college list. Going forward, you have every reason to feel confident and optimistic, @jwlbusi123.

19

Amherst is superb academically, including in the sciences, and has the added benefit of letting you take classes at UMass Amherst, which happens to be a topnotch CS program whose graduates do as well as Harvard’s for professional placement.
It definitely should be on your list.

20

Take a look at Georgia Tech. Relatively low OS tuition, very welcoming to foreign students, excellent CS and ECE programs. It is an urban campus but has lots of trees and green spaces. And Midtown Atlanta has turned into a great student town of its own.