While costs rise…
No wonder fewer students attending these challenged schools.
IMO, it’s the choice of major that drives payoff. Also, whether students at those schools are those willing to relocate. It has been my observation that a lot of directional university, local type schools have more kids not relocating for jobs.
The first linked article which has the “50 least payoff” colleges contains a link to “50 most payoff” colleges, the least payoff ones are almost all LACs, some are quite selective, such as Vassar, Carlton, Reed. But it is interesting that for the most payoff list, the method is looking at average student loans while for the least payoff list, it looks at total tuition.
I’m suspicious of the median earnings. Something seems off.
@makemesmart wrote:
You mean, that’s how Wesleyan makes both lists? LOL:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/16/cost-college-top-universities-pay-off-most-stanford-princeton/1742297001/
@circuitrider
Ha!
This strikes me as a stupid list because some of the top colleges are on it… and these colleges often are or were previously women’s colleges, etc. Some of them are famous for having a lot of graduates who go on to excel in the arts. Many are on the lists of colleges that send the most students on to PhD programs. Many have multiple graduates working in nonprofits. So, basically, if you are a college that is successful in developing intellectuals, artists, educators, and socially minded individuals— as opposed to people who mostly want to make a lot of money and go for top-paying jobs— you get a bad rating on this list.
There are a lot of things in life more important than making a ton of money.
I would hope that the role of educators, artists, and social activists would be valued by society, even if they are not highly paid.
And a number of colleges on this list (like Vassar) are 100% need-blind and meet full demonstrated need, so it’s not like students have huge debts to pay off.
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While that is true, the information provided may still be useful to applicants and their parents. Hopefully those going into such occupations/colleges are aware of their income potential before enrolling, but a reminder can be useful. More data leads to more informed decision-making. Also noteworthy is that several liberal arts colleges including Pomona, W&L, Williams and Bowdoin appear on the opposite list of colleges that pay off the most.
Not a useful list, IMO, for reasons already stated here. Major choice, a decision to take a lower paying but high value to society job, number of students not paying the full price…none of these seem to matter to this list.
But really - the list is titled “student loan crisis” but doesn’t take actual student loans into account? It’s just a meaningless listicle.
The study compares earnings to total tuition/fees for students who received federal aid. If they received federal aid, they didn’t pay anywhere close to full tuition - this doesn’t make sense.
No wonder so much of the list is private schools - higher list price hurts their ranking, but the bigger scholarships they give to offset list price aren’t taken into account. The authors of this “study” would flunk statistics at any of the schools.
Kiplinger’s has a different take.
https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/college/T014-S003-20-best-college-values-in-the-u-s-2019/index.html
This article seems useless…what matters is major, the student’s own ambition and intelligence, etc. Also, some real wealthy students can choose a major without worrying weather or not it will “pay off,” because they have the connections to get a well-paying job and/or their parents can help support them while they work in the arts, etc…
So I am new to this but looking at this list I see a big list of CTCL schools which is where I was told to look for my child who is a bit challenged with ADD and not a ton of direction. Not all of them are CTCL schools. But a LOT Of them are. Alot of them are very expensive. So could it be that those students who are like my daughter right now went to a pricey school and then never got a high paying job? That has me worried. I have to say.
Lots of kids go to both pricey and non-pricey schools and never get high paying jobs. Look around- the world is filled with people with college degrees working in early childcare, as probation officers, administrative assistants, etc.
You don’t really think that paying a lot for college guarantees a high paying job, do you? Tenzimom- if your D doesn’t have a lot of direction and doesn’t have her ADD challenges under control, there’s no rule that says she has to go to college right away.
My youngest went to one of those schools and has his sights set on ultimately doing permaculture farming in a third world country - helping to make a difference. I gather his income in a few more years won’t help their ROI data, yet somehow I don’t give a hoot. His education and our $$$ weren’t wasted. The college did help him get direction/focus and he enjoyed it all while having great experiences on campus and across the world.
Life really isn’t all about money. At least, it isn’t to some of us. The potential difference he can make in oodles of lives if he can do what he intends to do will be worth far more than gold to us.
ROI is a terrible measure for the value of a college education.
I prefer to think holistically and see if students get into the career and/or grad school of their choice and then make a living doing what they love. The world is not all about STEM or investment banking
@Tenzimom – it’s true that many of the CTCL are expensive privates which may not offer enough financial aid to make them viable options. But don’t despair. MANY relatively inexpensive publics offer both accommodations and services for students with disabilities (ADD.) I would begin the college hunt by really exploring those first. Go with your child to the various campuses, make appointments with the disabilities office, speak to those familiar with school services. I think many parents underestimate available support at public colleges and universities. And many overestimate what they may count on in private schools. You as the parent may end up having to be more involved in your ADD/directionless child’s college education even when you’re paying premium private prices. In which case you’d be kicking yourself for not saving yourself a lot of money at a public school.
As for that high paying job? Paying a hefty private school tuition is no guarantee. You want a guarantee? Encourage your daughter to become a plumber. And I’m only partly joking.
Folks really should be encouraging their kids to do things they like and are good at. That might include a college education or heading toward the trades. Encouraging a square peg to fit into a round hole is unlikely to produce anyone with a high income - college or plumbing. There are plenty of folks in the trades who are unsuccessful in what they do because they weren’t really designed to be good at them. It’s not their talent. Read some bad reviews, etc. Even in engineering, part of what my H does is fix what other engineers messed up. Those folks rarely stay in the job long. It doesn’t mean their college failed them. Others from the same college do well.
Help kids find their niche rather than trying to fit a kid into a niche.
RoI/NPV is an excellent measure of the value of a college education. One might argue that it is the only relevant factor for families with limited financial means. Pursuing your dream is not an option open to everyone, it sounds nice, but it isn’t practical for a lot of people. Ask anyone running a small business struggling to meet payroll, or supporting a family on a small hourly wage. Sometimes work is actually … work.
What would actually be useful is a list of salaries based on the major, whether they went to grad school and for what, and segmented by the college and its decile ranking. It’s not surprising the tech centric schools have a greater return compared to a general university and a liberal arts school.
Agree generally, but care needs to be taken to look at whether the desired career will allow the kid to become self-supporting. Some careers, like sports and arts, tend to be elite-or-bust, so someone who is good but not elite may have difficulty making a career out of them. Many of those whose passion is in sports or arts do something else for a career, with sports or arts as an “extracurricular”. Medicine (as a physician) is another career direction where only the elite (as opposed to the merely good) can pass through the entrance gates of medical school admission, so anyone desiring such a career needs to figure out backup plans in case s/he is not elite enough.