Different schools of thought about paying for college

Parents Forum
1

Doing some thinking about recent threads about whether high EFC families can (should?) pay for top schools, I see a couple of dominant schools of thought on CC:

  1. Go to the best (usually highest ranked) college you can afford because both the long term advantages and experience during college are “invaluable”.

  2. Don’t take on debt to go to college (or at least no more debt than the federal limits), so if you can’t afford to pay what the NPC says out of current income, don’t apply there, apply instead to schools that offer enough merit to make them affordable.

(Accompanying these two sentiments is sometimes what I perceive to be an undercurrent of “if you had changed your lifestyle and prioritized saving for education then you would have enough money to afford your EFC for a top college” which I find distasteful but is not really relevant here).

So I often see threads where a parent (or sometimes a student) is realizing they can’t afford their EFC and needs help redirecting their kid’s focus towards more “affordable” schools.

But what I rarely (never?) see is a parent saying “yes I could afford a top school but I don’t think it’s worth paying $70K for (say) Georgetown when Berkeley is $30K or Alabama is free”. In fact any comments along those lines are usually the exact opposite, e.g. “I turned down a full ride at X to be full pay at Stanford” (this is not to single out any individual, I could pick multiple other similar examples). There are a few commenters who note that (say) for engineering, salaries don’t differ much between higher ranked college Y and lower ranked college Z, but did they pick Z because of that or because they couldn’t afford Y?

Why is there no rational debate about the ROI associated paying more to go to a particular college? The usual pushback is that supposedly college is an “experience” so is “invaluable” or “immeasurable”. It’s apparently “ridiculous” to compare it to buying a more expensive car (despite the fact that this is often a trade off people make by driving an older car to save money for college). But plenty of other experiences can be weighed against cost. For example do I want to go on vacation to the Taj Mahal or to the Grand Canyon next year? And almost no one appears to think much about what your kid could do with $100K or $200K extra if it hadn’t been spent on college.

So is there anyone out there who’d like to volunteer that they spent less on college and their kid didn’t go to as highly ranked school as they could, not because they couldn’t afford it, but because they just didn’t see the value for money? If not then I think that would tend to suggest there’s very little stopping top colleges from continuing to push up their sticker prices almost indefinitely.

2

“But what I rarely (never?) see is a parent saying “yes I could afford a top school but I don’t think it’s worth paying $70K for (say) Georgetown when Berkeley is $30K or Alabama is free””
Maybe not on CC, but this kind of comment is quite frequent IRL where we live, not very far from Cal. In fact I have had people say to me, on finding out D is not really applying to any in-state colleges, “what’s the point of paying high CA taxes if you’re not going to take advantage of the colleges here”! (for various reasons, D is likely to end up at an east coast private college). A lot of our (high performing public high school) end up in-state, and cost-benefit is a big part of that. Admittedly, that’s an easier calculation to make with some of the UCs and state flagships vs others.

3

By the way on the car analogy, driving an older car to save money for college does not contradict the argument that it’s silly to compare it to car costs, it rather reinforces that argument - spending less on a depreciating thing to be able to invest more in your kid’s future.

No two people are going to always agree where the cost-benefit trade off is, just as people differ on something like whether the value of a particular property (house/location/school district/whatever) vs another is “worth it”, or yes whether it’s worth the extra to pay for a luxury car vs a Honda. We all bring our own subjective opinions, shaped by our own life experiences, in along with what we can actually afford.

4

I am one of the rare (and vocal) parents. I don’t think any school is worth $70k+ a year. We would have been full pay and being full pay was never a consideration because I don’t think it’s worth it. My D understood that very early and was all in on the merit chase. She actually agrees about the cost. She had many excellent college options and earned a number of full rides. We are very happy with her college experience at a flagship (honors program) on full scholarship and don’t think she’s missing out on anything. Excellent education? Check. Small classes? Check. Intellectual discussions? Check. Good relationships with professors? Check. Good networking opportunities? Check? Good internship and career options? Check. Good social life? Check. She will graduate without debt, having traveled the world, with multiple degrees, and will have 6 figures in the bank plus whatever she saves from her high paying internships. Plus the Dawgs are playing some great football. :slight_smile:

5

I am in that category. I told my kids I would pay for a SUNY education and if they wanted anything different, they had to figure out how to fund it. The only exception I would have made would have been if one of them got into an Ivy or equivalent (like U Chicago or Stanford). That didn’t happen, so it was SUNY all around.

Up until the time my oldest was getting ready for college, I was adamant that I was not going to pay one penny and they could put themselves through, like H and I did. However, when I started to research, I realized that that was no longer possible in this day and age, so I adopted my SUNY stance.

D wanted to apply to NYU and I just said no.

I don’t think most of the $60 - 70K schools are worth it compared to SUNY schools, at least for what my kids studied and majored in.

6

OP- you are reading different threads than I am!

We were full pay and I have gotten a LOT of blowback on CC about what morons we are. Too stupid to realize that a kid who got into MIT could have gotten merit at WPI or Case; too innumerate to understand how many condos, cars, trips abroad and weddings we could have paid for; too shallow to realize that being full pay means we are getting ripped off by “elite” school branding.

There are hundreds of these threads on CC.

I don’t tell other people what to do with their money, but lots of folks here have no trouble explaining to the deluded full pay parents that the smart thing to do is to take the merit award and save the dough so you can help the non-existent grandchildren down the road.

I am not defensive- we saved for a long time, lived well beneath our means, and communicated openly with our kids about what we would pay for and what we would not. Nicer weather? No. Better social life? No. Close to skiing, beaches, fun clubs? No. We did not fund study abroad- the kid who really wanted to do it but couldn’t figure out how to graduate in 8 semesters (our limit) in the desired academic program, ended up getting a summer job with a fellowship to fund almost three months in the desired city overseas. I call that a win/win.

I’m not too dumb or innumerate to know what I could have done with the money. Our expectations for their education were exceeded by the way they took advantage of the opportunities they had; they were first in line for jobs, internships, research opportunities with professors, etc. since they knew that getting this kind of experience was going to help them launch (and the bank of mom and dad was not prepared to bankroll 6 months post-grad of "who am I and what do I want to do with my life as so many of my friends have done with their kids). And yes- they all graduated in four years, managed to launch, are excelling in careers that they really love, and are doing their best to give back to society-volunteering, mentoring, helping kids who did not have the kind of parental support they did, AND of course voting, paying taxes, being kind and engaged citizens.

So I’m happy with the way it turned out. Other families figure it out too and I don’t criticize people who go the merit route, the “live at home and do CC for two years” route, or the “state directional for undergrad and then sky is the limit for grad school” route. I’ve got friends with kids who did the academies- and boy, we are lucky as a country to have young people who are ready to commit to umpteen years of service-- the “free” education notwithstanding (and a flight surgeon among them- who has just re-upped his commitment even though he could have finished mid-2019. His parents know what he could be making as a surgeon in the private sector but understand why he wants to make his career in the military).

Families figure it out. But there are LOTs of the threads you are looking for on CC!!!

7

Family decision that will vary from family to family.

We were basically full pay for two expensive colleges that were not top 20.

Our kids got excellent educations and frankly, it’s no one else’s business that we chose to fund these costs.

8

Let’s be clear: I don’t care how others choose to spend their money. If someone wants to sacrifice for umpteen years to full pay for college, that’s their choice. I know that was never a choice we would make. No skipping nice family vacations, dining out, entertainment, etc. for us just to pay for expensive colleges.

What I do mind are those on CC who like to tell us merit chasers how we’ve limited our kids options and life outcomes by not being willing to pay the outrageous costs that these schools are charging (simply because they can get away with it) or because we didn’t sacrifice like they did.

To each their own.

9

@SJ2727
“By the way on the car analogy, driving an older car to save money for college does not contradict the argument that it’s silly to compare it to car costs, it rather reinforces that argument - spending less on a depreciating thing to be able to invest more in your kid’s future.”

Could not agree more!! Formerly worked in education and often noticed this common value judgement. Finally left education, in large part because of the pay differential between education and income my education could earn in other applications. It is a value judgement. Twenty years after leaving education I realized my former job was the most rewarding employment I ever had!! However, when I left that employment my salary doubled in the first year! Great, I had new cars!?

The cost of STEM education in particular is very high because of competing salaries in the corporate world and the ever changing demands for laboratory equipment. This money is not going into expensive cars and fancy vacations. Our culture seems to value the transient pleasures of a trip to Disneyland above that of a secure and rewarding future.

10

Hmm… the “transient pleasures of a trip to Disneyland” for some could also be lifetime memories of family time for others. Again, it’s personal, and what represents “value” for one person can be vastly different from the next.

11

Glad this thread exists. Have seen many one sided threads (on both sides of the discussion) that always leave me thinking, “why would anyone care what I choose to do re paying for kids college and I would never tell someone they shouldn’t, it’s a waste, blah, blah blah”

Everyone’s situation is unique. What’s important to me may be irrelevant to you and vice versa. We all just do what we feel is best for our kids.

12

Depends on the major in my opinion. I think certain majors the “fancy” degree can be worth it and in other scenarios I believe it is 100% not worth it (using ROI flawed methodology).

My daughter 32ACT 3.91 UW could have gone to many “higher ranked schools” the school she picked is barely in the top 500.

We were willing to go up to 50k/yr and she chose a school that will cost about 13k/yr with room and board after scholarships.

For her plan of healthcare it makes perfect sense her undergrad is not meaningless (clout is meaningless), but all about GPA, GRE, Volunteering, and direct patient hours. If her plan was engineering, math, business I would have swayed her against her choice.

13

“So is there anyone out there who’d like to volunteer that they spent less on college and their kid didn’t go to as highly ranked school as they could, not because they couldn’t afford it, but because they just didn’t see the value for money?”

Pretty rare I would guess as most families consider giving their kids the best education that they can afford a top priority.

Put me in the camp that does not look at a college education as strictly a monetary ROI but as an extremely important 4 years in the education in all aspects of a 18-21 year old’s life that is the building blocks for their future.

I can’t think of a better way to spend my money than to put it into my kid’s education, that is why the car analogy rings shallow to me.

14

OP, when you have time, here’s yet another thread to look at . . . 51+K views on it! from 2 years ago.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1956080-to-parents-of-full-pay-private-college-students-p1.html

15

@socaldad2002 And therein lies the judgment. Who says education isn’t a top priority because a family isn’t willing to spend $70k+ a year on it? That’s a fallacy. Who says the higher ranked school is where a student would get the “best education?” I disagree with any such generalization.

16

Count us in this category. D applied to, was accepted to, received a small merit scholarship to a smaller mostly women’s college. Based on her desired path, teaching, and unwillingness to put more effort into testing that could have increased the merit dollars, we did a cost analysis and said no. We had some money set aside for college expenses, but this school was far above and beyond that. And the cost was unreasonable given the anticipated future income. We talked about what the (her) payments would have been after she graduated, what her income would like be, and talked about all her other life things that would have to wait. Think vacations, 1st car, meals out, etc. She ended up at an in state uni, found her place, graduated “on time” and debt free, loves where she’s living now (same area as college), and will hopefully pass that one last certification test.

Given her desired path, I would not have agreed to full cost regardless of who was paying or the loans.

17

One thing to note is that a student’s college choices may be determined as much or more by parental money situation compared to student ability.

The implications are that parents need to have some idea years before to guess whether the more expensive options may matter, and whether they are worth whatever financial frugalizing choices that need to be made over the years (and whether some other types of parental actions like divorce may shut out some choices altogether).

Another implication is that, if you are reviewing candidates for hiring, the signal of an expensive private college may indicate as much about the applicant’s parents as it does about the applicant, and also signals about the applicant based on college name are mostly about the applicant’s high school strength (which also has dependency on parents more than later achievement).

18

I don’t think this has to be an argument with judgmental statements on both sides. Families have different beliefs and priorities. Period. I think we all are trying to do our best by our children.

I have strong feelings about paying for one child’s college education, just as I have strong feelings about not letting an infant “cry it out” and not spanking children. To me, these beliefs feel like they go to the very core of my being. I guess others feel similarly about their parenting beliefs, which is what is making these threads so emotion-laden.

That said, it also can be recognized that other parents make different decisions from those one might make oneself… and their children also can come out as happy, kind, well-educated people. So let’s all try to keep that in mind.

Parents are all on this site because they care so much about their children.

19

This is simply not true @ucbalumnus. Top tier private schools are more likely to offer FA to students. I would not jump to any conclusion about applicant’s parents because it is a private school.

I have no clue what you are saying about applicant’s high school strength. After 4 years of college, an applicant’s high school experience is irrelevant. How a student got into college is also irrelevant.
@ucbalumnus - do you have kids or had kids in college?

20

Neither of my kids went to the highest ranked school they got into. So it certainly wasn’t about ranking. One decided her best fit was a school where she got good merit money. The other was full pay most years at an expensive school that was a perfect fit for her.

Both are VERY grateful to have had the opportunity to pick what was the best fit for them. I won’t apologize for having started saving early and heavily so they could have their choice.

I see a LOT of rationalizing out here from parents who didn’t plan ahead or didn’t consider it a high priority for their families. And that is their prerogative. And their kids will likely have good college experiences and get degrees, and go on to productive careers. We do our best here to provide college info and options for everyone, no matter where they are starting the process. But the sneering that goes on toward parents who plan for and choose to be full pay in some situations is unfortunate. To me, it smacks of jealousy and insecurity.