College Visit Train Trip up NE

College Search & Selection
1

<p>What colleges would you suggest for a visit or suggest to remove from the current list? I don't want the trip to last more than 1 - 1 1/2 weeks.</p>

<p>Starting from home in MS, we will go to U of Alabama, Emory and hop the train to Georgetown, UPenn, Bryn Mawr, NYU, Barnard, Columbia, Princeton, Middlebury for my c/o 2012 daughter who has a 4.0 unweighted with the heaviest class load possible and who earned a 2210 on SAT, 32 ACT last year and recently took PSAT. She will take SAT/ACT again, especially as she wants National Merit and ACT Star Student, which carries a scholarship for the top 20 in our state. She has fourteen years of dance, three years of voice, and she has performed in many community theatre plays. She has two years of Spanish with mission trips to Honduras, one year of German (plans 2nd during Senior year and gap year deferment for CBYX after graduation), and Chinese from a summer STARTALK program. She is interested in psychology, sociology, economics, politics, social anthropology, human rights, international studies/relations/business, religion, and public policy, but NOT math and science (except maybe neurobiology). She is EXTREMELY conservative and she wants to work to improve the quality of living for people, especially women and children, living outside the US. She wants to work for the UN or a missions group. Obviously I'm not going to allow her to go into debt for a career that could earn her very little money (missions), and I won't put a second mortgage on my house for as much as the EFC says that I can pay, but I will pay some. </p>

<p>I really don't want to waste time on this trip, but I want her to see her options. Her picks right now are Middlebury, Bryn Mawr, and University of Mississippi. Of the colleges I plan to visit, which would be a complete waste of my time? Which colleges should I have put on the list?</p>

2

<p>10 schools in a week? By train, with side stops to rent a car? After Bryn Mawr, she’ll be a mess. Her impressions will all fade and run together. Unless you already know NYC, there’s no simple way to dart in and dart out. (Of course you can, I mean it’s a wonderfully distracting city and if one is exhausted, it can be incredibly frustrating to orient yourself, get a cab, etc.) There will be posters who say, go ahead. Every one of my friends who overextended hated it. When will you go? It’s already snowed once in VT.<br>
Are Midd, BM and UM truly her first choices? Have you done the reality test of checking course catalogs, faculty (bios, background, research fields, classes they teach,) watched the videos and srutinized the web sites? Do you have any idea how NON-conservative all these northern schools are? I mean, in everything from politics to world view, lifestyle, etc. (And, I’m liberal.) Even at schools which claim balance, she will be in a minority…and far from home. So, please wisely review this itinerary. Good luck.</p>

3

<p>Summer trip. I was thinking that we needed to narrow the trip, but I really hated to cut schools out. I really have no idea exactly how non-conservative they are, but I feel she is prepared to expand her horizons, just how much I’m not sure. She’s just a little tired of being stifled by her home state. She really enjoys learning about cultural differences and she knows that she has lived in a figurative bubble all her life. I hate to sound provincial, but that’s probably what this trip will be for as well. I don’t want her to pick a place because all our research on the web sites and the faculty sound amazing but when she gets there, she realizes that she is completely unprepared for lifestyle differences and must remain there. Not only are there cultural differences but climate differences as well. </p>

<p>On the other hand, Middlebury (one of her choices because of the languages), Bryn Mawr (the admissions counselors have already spoken to her in person and she’s communicated with a couple faculty–she likes the tri-co and upenn classes), and finally Ole Miss (the Honors program will be good, but she’ll still unquestionably be top tier there–it will be paid for easily–and there will be someone there to guide her through Rhodes Scholarship process–so definite pluses, but she doesn’t really want to stay in MS)–the three really her first choices (right now), but there are many as yet unexplored options.</p>

<p>So what would you narrow the list down to? If you have alternate suggestions, we’re all ears, too. Fewer schools is not necessarily a bad thing. It makes the trip shorter and cheaper. Plus, I really want to take her to her first Broadway show, and we’d have time for that.</p>

4

<p>They’re all good schools, each is so different. If possible, I would make UA and Emory their own trip, as they’re closer to home. Also think once she’s seen Columbia/Barnard, she’ll know whether she wants NYC at all. Perhaps, skip NYU.</p>

<p>I’d be tempted to skip Midd this trip. If she has a chance of feeling out of place, bear in mind it’s a small school and somewhat remote, a 4 hour drive from Boston- even if kids fly in/out of VT, it’s not a major route. Later, if she’s still interested, maybe you could combine a trip with visits to some Boston schools.</p>

<p>I’d also get a car at some points- are you thinking of that? Any ideas, so far? All in all, boiled down, with some breathing room and that play, it could be a great pre-senior year trip.</p>

5

<p>KALee, First, you should be 100% clear on your financial position. Many of the colleges on your daughter’s list do not offer MERIT aid, but they are generous with NEED based aid. Use an online calculator to figure out how much NEED aid you may be eligible for. If it’s not enough, then don’t visit those schools. </p>

<p>Second, I think it’s good that she has a balance of small/medium/large, urban/suburban/rural on her list. This will help her add like schools and eliminate others in the future. Getting to Middlebury – or any of the schools in that area – by public transportation isn’t so easy though.</p>

<p>By conservative do you mean politically or socially (or both)? All of the northeast schools lean to the left politically though some offer more middle road choces than others. In other words, at some schools political conservatives get fair chance to express their opinions; at some they don’t have a chance. :)</p>

<p>Social conservatism is harder to define as it can mean different things to different people, for example religious practice, tolerance for different life styles, avoidance of alcohol/drugs. At some schools, you may find students who are serious and hardworking academically but who are at the same time politically and socially extremely liberal. </p>

<p>I think the idea of adding Boston is a good one and would recommend Wellesley and Tufts. For a politically middle road LAC that also has the academics she’s looking for plus excellent performing arts opportunities I’d suggest Williams.</p>

6

<p>Also visiting in the summer means not so many students around, so not really getting a feel for what campus is like, what students are wearing etc, signs for club meetings (what type of clubs?) and so on! Since so many college student bodies lean to the left, I would think visiting when classes are in session would be more beneficial to your daughter. She must feel comfortable & be able to envision herself at that school.</p>

7

<p>I was warned about this- and it proved so true: sometimes, a kid can set one foot on campus (or just park the car) and know it’s not where they want to spend four years. That’s one advantage to looking around a bit, closer to home, before a major trip. My dau’s learned they absolutely could not envision themselves at a mega-U. Or a teeny college. Or, someplace terribly homogeneous, by any definition. On the other hand, they had no concerns at all about remote locations. (We were the ones who worried about transportation options and cost.)
SLU is right about summer trips. So many kids end up going back to their finalists, in season. Still, if it’s a comfortable trip, you could be ok for a first-pass. Each city has it’s very-high points.</p>

8

<p>It would be easier for people to suggest colleges if you gave some hint of what your D wants in a college. Urban or rural? Large or small? Big-time sports program? Big sorority scene? Does she want to live in dorms or an apartment? A school where she could pursue a minor in what seem to be her interests in the Fine Arts? And so on… Unless she’s spent some time thinking about what she wants in a college it is going to be difficult to recognize it when she sees it.</p>

<p>And as for a summer trip, during the summer you get to see the buildings and lawns but a key ingredient is missing – the students. Even schools in the same category can have a quite different feel because of the students, and she won’t have a chance to garner impressions or talk to them during the summer.</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>Momrath, you really need to turn off the Glenn Beck show from time to time. Geez. KALee, your daughter will not be brainwashed, harassed or stifled at UPenn, Bryn Mawr, NYU, Barnard, Columbia, Princeton, or Middlebury. For that matter, she won’t be at just about any reputable college or university. And let’s not address her “conservatism” as some immutable facet of her identity as we might her ethnicity or handedness. Students go to college to be exposed to new and different points of view, not to be placated and told that every perspective they brought with them at 18 years of age was fully-informed and absolutely right.</p>

10

<p>gadad, No reason to be so rude. It was the OP who decribed her daughter as conservative, not me.</p>

11

<p>Agree with momrath. It matters.<br>
And, it is a concern in the original post.</p>

12

<p>LOL…its funny to see people get all excited and irritated when a conservative pops out of the woodwork…</p>

<p>First, narrow down your search immediately. Its always best to visit colleges when school is in session, to talk to students and see how a campus looks and feels during the school year. Taking college tours from their student tour guides will get you only so much. They have talking points. </p>

<p>I disagree that once you see Columbia you dont need to see NYU. Columbia, NYU and Fordham in New York are all different schools. Columbia and NYU are decidedly left wing and a conservative may feel out of place, unless they have a strong backbone, a thick skin and can dish out as much they get. Fordham is much more moderate and centrist. A healthy mix of dems and repubs on Fordham’s campus. </p>

<p>All colleges will have wild kids. Party animals that break a parent’s heart. So be prepared. THere is no way to avoid it unless you kid lives at home and commutes to college. </p>

<p>If you need money, then look at match schools: Fordham, BC, Holy Cross. </p>

<p>You can fly to DC. Then take the train from there to NYC and onto Boston a few days later. Amtrak runs high speed trains from DC to Boston. Saves a lot of time. Use the subway in DC. Use Taxis and the Metro North Train in NYC. </p>

<p>Fordham’s Bronx campus is gorgeous. Its not quite as pretty as Ole Miss at Oxford, which is perhaps really hard to beat. </p>

<p>At some point, you simply have to make decisions on which schools are in and out. Do the best you can and be as objective as you can. Let her make as many decisions as feasible…she is the one who has to live there and go to class, not you. Be an advisor, but not a decider, if that helps. Different people are turned on by schools or turned off by schools. Its subjective. Roll with it. </p>

<p>Finally, have fun and enjoy the trips. With her stats and scores she will have no problem getting in. So just be sanguine and chill…take it all in and let her gut feelings guide her. Fit is MUCH more important than prestige. Repeat, fit is more important than prestige. </p>

<p>If you truly want conservative, then look at Davidson and Furman.</p>

<p>Have fun.</p>

13

<p>“…funny to see people get all excited and irritated when a conservative pops out of the woodwork…”</p>

<p>Hmm. So far, only gad and ghost are getting hot under the collar.
It’s not about le Grand Tour. Or, some final do-or-die attempt. Add this school and that, add a new city. It’s a beginning tour, for a junior, and an ambitious itinerary- so far, by train. OP asked, what could we skip? </p>

<p>Hope this thread isn’t going off OP’s original track. Oops, a pun. Look, it’s ok to admit NE schools are liberal. Can we now move back?</p>

14

<p>If she’s interested in Middlebury, it’s a shame to miss it. It would also be good to add Davidson but maybe the suggestion of doing those closer schools in a separate trip makes sense. Could you rent a car for part of this? Also agree with the Wellesley idea if she likes Bryn Mawr. Wellesley is so amazing academically and absolutely beautiful. A liberal arts school that is more of a match would be a good addition----maybe Trinity?</p>

15

<p>One thought would be to take a train to DC and then rent a car … getting from trains to the schools will use a lot of time and be pain in many cases … and complicated on days when you visit two schools (Penn and Bryn Mawr). In addition, in a car it is much easier to change plans (spend 30 seconds at schools instead of 1/2 a day … or spend a full day instead of 1/2 a day)</p>

<p>I do not know enough to suggest which schools to drop … but I can suggest a lot to add.</p>

<p>Georgetown … how about adding Hopkins that day
Penn & Bryn Mawr … a good day … and Haverford & Villanova are very-very close to BM
Barnard and Columbia are easy … a 20 yard commute</p>

<p>It’s a pretty good trek to Middlebury but if it’s her first choice I’d head that way</p>

<p>Lots of schols between NYC and Middlebury depending on the route you take … </p>

<p>Yale and Trinity works … or</p>

<p>Yale, Brown, and a couple Boston schools.</p>

<p>Most folks are going to advise you not to visit too many schools however I’m a contrarian on this topic. With my two oldest I’ve gone a treks seeing at least two schools a day … my opinion is if we are going to travel a long way we might as well see lots of options. Personally I thougth two schools a day worked fine … although I would recommend taking notes and pictures to help keep the schools straight.</p>

<p>Have fun with the trip!</p>

16

<p>Thank you all for your help!<br>
Yes, I can rent a car. I may be able to make a Spring Break trip and not a summer trip. For us, Spring Break is March 13-19, so maybe some colleges will be in session; otherwise, summer it is --because I am a teacher. I will price flights, but I’m trying to go about this as inexpensively as I can. </p>

<p>Truthfully, we could probably go without seeing a college in NYC because she told me yesterday that the reason she dumped U Chicago off the list was because it was in a large city. The only saving grace for NYC was that it has Broadway and the UN, and the admissions counselor said Columbia/Barnard is in a residential area. Then, although our EFC is about $30,000/yr., I estimate we can really only afford about $12,000/yr. We won’t take out a loan for undergraduate studies. I say this, although if she absolutely loves the college, I’ll probably at least try to do what I can to help her out.</p>

<p>Politically, she is a moderate conservative, and socially she’s extremely conservative. She strongly believes in her Christian faith, but doesn’t believe in the carrot/stick theory as she calls it, so she won’t proselytize. Though socially, she has never touched an illegal substance, she doesn’t party and she absolutely hates “grind lines” or any dancing of that sort (she likes ballroom). She has a creative and critically perceptive mind, so she can weigh the opinions of others very well with her own, and we expect her to adapt her views of the world within her own moral belief system as that is what college is about. Thus, I’m not really worried about the conservative factor as much as I would hate for her to go anywhere without at least a few like-minded people because her back bone may be strong but her skin isn’t that thick and she’s rather close-mouthed, so she doesn’t dish out well. Hopefully, college will teach her to adapt a little more.</p>

<p>The colleges MUST have the following languages as majors, or access to said majors: Russian, Chinese, Arabic, and German. Large study abroad and community service programs are also a must. I have noticed that this is a deal breaker for her. If they don’t, she throws the brochure in the trash. I don’t think she really cares about the size, but she won’t want something too rural and she won’t want something too crowded. She could care less about sports or sororities but if the school has them, she’d probably participate.</p>

<p>I hate to take away Middlebury as she has received a lot of advice on how beneficial Middlebury is for language study. I will check some of the other schools I haven’t gotten information on and let her see them. She has a box for those she’s interested in and a circular file for those that she is not.</p>

17

<p>These are actually ideas she’s already thought about; I just didn’t post. Thank you for mentioning something I was negligent to state. She doesn’t care about dorms or apartment but I would probably pull for a single as much as possible due to her tendency to get a rather nasty snappy attitude when stressed and her very strong need for personal space. She loves the arts and would like an opportunity to participate in the arts (thus schools where only the fine arts majors can participate are out), but she does not wish to minor in the arts. This is mainly because her interest in the humanities is so broad, she really wants to explore a minor in economics, social anthropology, psychology, or a second language, and a double major in international studies and a primary area language. She is a cheerleader and likes talking and sharing ideas, but doesn’t like to party, so though social outlets and athleticism are important, sororities and big sports schools aren’t.</p>

18

<p>KALee, If I understand you correctly, you have determined that you might be $18,000 short x 4 = $72,000. If you’ve already used an online calculator and that figure seems reasonable, then unless you want to reconsider the “no-loan” policy, I would suggest that your daughter radically reconfigure her list. Many of the schools she’s interested in do not give merit aid, period. She needs to find some that do. This is more difficult but not impossible.</p>

<p>There are several threads on this site that address merit aid. Look at the top of the Parents board.</p>

<p>Social conservatism is difficult in the northeast. It’s quite easy to find a critical mass of students who don’t drink, do drugs or party excessively, but it’s more difficult to find supporters of other conservative values. I’m not going to go into details as there seem to be a shoot-the-messenger reaction here, but if you’d like more details, please send me a private message. </p>

<p>[Before the knees jerk: I’m not expressing my personal beliefs. I’m just trying to help the poster understand the difference among schools, especially small LACs.]</p>

<p>On the rest of her wish list: I woudn’t worry about study abroad opportunities as these are quite common at all academically rigorous schools. Among the languages on her list, she’ll find Chinese and German at most schools. Arabic and Russian are less widespread, though not really uncommon. This is an area where consortiums help, though it’s doubtful that she’s going to be able to address all four, plus the her other areas of interest.</p>

<p>Performing and fine arts opportunities are also variable by quality and intensity, though all schools have some degree of theater and dance programs.</p>

19

<p>Oh, boy- check Arabic. Make sure it goes to her max interest level. I thought GU stops at A2. Perhaps it’s super intense? You could post a thread about those languages (and your school ideas) and see what insight comes. And, at some point, call depts and ask what “practical” proficiency level is attained- ie, not just in standardized tests. It’s one thing to converse/read poetry; another to be prepared for extended living abroad.</p>

<p>Our experience is that it’s more expensive to take a train than drive. Our inclination, so sorry, world, is always to drive these NE routes. But, you will face returing a car to origin- or a higher rate. After the list narrows, we can suggest hybrid train/drive ideas.</p>

<p>It’s worth a look at Brown’s super language programs, which seem to meet all your dau’s needs, and the open curriculum, where she can mix and match classes nealry at will; Prov is a smallish mostly friendly city, an hour south of Boston by local rail. Brown’s in a residential area, with a student shopping/dining street or two. </p>

<p>Beware that, often, intro language classes collide on schedules- check how dau’s proposed class schedule could work out. She may wind up supplementing with intensive summer programs. </p>

<p>ps. you can use google map “satellite” feature to see all these schools’ urban/suburban setting, from on high.</p>

20

<p>Great idea regarding Google Map satellite and calling to check proficiency levels. That is a must do. </p>

<p>Regarding financial aid, I know that many of the elites and Ivies don’t give anything but Merit aid, but I’ve been told to check into them anyway since we’ll be up in that area if only to give her an idea of graduate schools. </p>

<p>I want her to expand her horizons, so I’m going to let her decide if she feels like she can handle exchanges that may get negative. </p>

<p>Thanks for all.</p>