Help me gently steer my daughter in the best direction

College Search & Selection
1

My daughter is finishing her sophomore year with an excellent GPA, very short list of extracurriculars but pretty intense involvement in the one she’s the most passionate about. The only wishes my husband and I have for her when she goes to college is that she gets an excellent education of course, and of equal importance is that she lives the four years in an environment that feels comfortable and enjoyable for someone of her character and personality type.

This is where the steering part comes in. At this time my daughter is pretty adamant about wanting to go to the school with an urban campus. This desire is primarily based on how much she hates the boring suburban town where we live. I understand this desire, but my husband and I both believe that she will be most comfortable at a smaller school where there is a lot of diverse city in the student population. My daughter has never been the “mainstream” kind of kid. She has a small group of friends and her high school and none of them fit in to their high school environment. My daughter has said that she would prefer a school with little to no Greek system and she doesn’t even care if there are sports. She’s an interesting thoughtful girl who likes to meet other interesting thoughtful people. She is the type to get involved in clubs and organizations in a smaller more nurturing setting, but she is more likely to shy away from them in a larger type of setting if that makes sense. She had talked about going to a school like Boston University because she loves the way it’s right in the middle of the city, but I feel like my daughter would get lost there and feel anonymous. I’ve read arguments that a school like that is what you make of it, but I just don’t think that such a school is a good fit for her. She is very likely going to pursue a graduate degree anyway, and can always move to a city when she’s a little bit older to do that.

I’m not a controlling parents by any means, I just feel I am older and more experienced than my daughter, and I know her personality so well. After feeling like she doesn’t fit in in your typical suburban high school seen for four years, I would love to see her in an environment where more of the people are like her: interesting, quirky at times, interested in meeting People from different backgrounds and with different ideas, and above all warm and kind and not cutthroat competitive, because even though she is a good student, she becomes stressed out when she is in that kind of environment. She is not one of those crazy, intensely driven over achievers. Quite a few of the schools on the Colleges that Change Lives list seem to fit the bill. Any words of advice?

2

Visit a wide range of types of campus / schools this summer and throughout junior year.

Edit: kids grow up a lot between sophomore and senior year. What she and you may feel is best now might change drastically over the course of the next year and a half. Best to get a sense of what is out there before deciding where to apply.

3

Thank you for that advice. We are definitely planning to do exactly what you say, to really let her see what the environment is like at different types of schools. Like many other families we have a lot more time in the summer then during the year to make these visits, but unfortunately our time will start in the middle of August, since she will be traveling the first six weeks of summer. I’m concerned that visiting schools the last few weeks in August won’t give her a good taste of the student population there.

4

My son, also a sophomore, will be attending a couple summer programs to see what he likes/dislikes in some different environments (one at a small rural liberal arts college, one at a mid-sized university in an urban area). While summer programs are not exactly the same as college, they are at least a half step that allows both student and parents to gather some data to make their more important college decision. Good luck!

5

Wow, she sounds so much like my D, who is also finishing up her Sophomore year. One of the schools we’re looking at closely is Clark U in Worcester (one of the Colleges that Change Lives). It’s in a city (let’s be honest - Worcester is no Boston, but there are a bunch of other colleges nearby and I don’t get the sense it’s as bad as people say). It seems to attract quirky, open-minded students, and with a strong GPA, she may be eligible for some good merit scholarships.

We’re also checking out Lafayette in PA. Again, smaller city itself, but close to Philly if she wants the “big city” experience available to her.

I’m curious to see how your journey unfolds. Good luck!

6

@Moonshot99, the summer programs are a great idea! That was the thing that turned my opinion around when I was that age. I thought I wanted a small private university until I did a 3-week summer program at one. @IBViolamom, your D may not be able to fit that in her schedule, but hopefully some college visits will help her get a feel for what she will like.

7

Parent of junior here, agreeing that their stated preferences evolve a lot over the high school year. My kid loves NYC, and for the first 2 years of high school, swore he would only consider college in NYC . . . . flash forward to this year, after some visits to LACs, and he knows himself well enough now to say a small town LAC is preferable to anything else for him.

Expose them to the different types of schools near you, rather than stretch to get to that may actually wind up on her actual list. For instance, we visited our flagship, plus some match/safety schools, to get a sense for size, urban vs. remote etc. That helped him start to sort out his own preferences.

Also, keep in mind, sometimes, their own instincts are better than we expect. My older one wanted big, and we kept seeing him as a LAC kid. He dutifully visited LACs, liked them well enough, but really came alive on the big flagship campuses. We realized that he saw things we didn’t, and we had to step away from micromanaging. Of course, that was winter of senior year, not spring of sophomore year!

Good luck with the process, have fun. Many of us parents agree that the one parent/one teen college visit trips are the stuff of great memories.

8

I’m conflicted. Part of me feels one way, and part another. On the one hand, people do change and adapt, and you can turn any school into what you are looking for. On the other hand, why make it harder for someone to do that than it needs to be.

Our DD sounds exactly like yours, and we knew her choice would not be a good fit, but she has adapted and made the best of a questionable situation. We try to look at the bright side of things and see how the school has been an introduction to the real world where you will constantly get knocked down and have to learn to deal with it. I am not sure that if she had gone to the school we wanted her to that she would have developed such a thick skin and such confidence that she could handle anything. However, she also would have been much happier while in school.

She is currently traveling the world with people who she didn’t know, and has the confidence to go out on her own in strange and scary cities all over the world. That is a huge life skill that probably would not have happened at our choice of schools.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you know your child the best and probably know what school would fit her best at this point in time, but kids do adapt, grow, and change, and there is something to be said for that.

9

There was one uni in a city that my H didn’t like the location of. So when my D wanted to visit, he drove her there and and when they got back I asked D about it. She said, it’s ok but where we parked (city parking) was kind of scary and then dad made me go walk ahead to get to the school and the street was kind of scary too …
She ended up not applying.

When I asked H about it he shrugged and said - good for her to see all sides of the place.

10

When your DAUGHTER chooses where to apply and SHE chooses where to attend, she will be much more mature than she is right now. It’s a process that forces them to grow up to some degree and learn about themselves. I can tell you that my D2 wanted an urban school in a great city but did not eventually choose one.

There are terrific schools in urban environments - think MIT, Harvard, Tufts, UChicago, UPenn, Brown, Columbia, Rice, Johns Hopkins etc.

There are terrific schools in rural college towns - think Cornell, Amherst, Williams, etc

There are terrific small schools with urban access - Wellesley, Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr

There are terrific small schools in cities: Barnard, Macalester.

I will tell you my experience from going through this with two academically bright daughters, is that you have to be open to the possibility that your D will not agree with you for what’s best for her. That’s ought to be ok with you. It’s her life and you have to let her live it. Choosing a college is not something that is likely to be a big mistake, and kids need the freedom to potentially make mistakes. This is one with little downside.

At the same time, you have a huge role in collecting information and potentially suggesting schools to visit, a strategy for applications, how much you are willing to pay, etc. You might even help tracking applications, ordering transcripts, and just keeping things organized. I often played devil’s advocate whenever my Ds seemed like they were converging on some kind of decision. It was was in the form of “Well have you considered the possibility that…”. It’s important that your D own the process and that all decisions be hers.

In terms of timing, it’s a little early to do serious visits. My kids did a variety of summer programs so they got to experience different kinds of campuses. For my older academic star, she didn’t get the least bit interested in visiting colleges until February break of Junior year where she went with some friends to visit some local colleges (we live in Boston).

My younger daughter who went on some of D1’s visit seemed more interested in visiting early, so we visited some schools after sophomore year on the way to and from her summer program. These weren’t very valuable visits for the particular schools, but we got to see an away Red Sox game, and was able to compare ice cream at different campuses. We definitely got to compare urban and rural.

Since D2’s stats would have benefited from the boost that an early decision application would provide, we encouraged that, so during spring of junior year and the week before school started senior year, we did 9 serious college visits. During April break, we did 6 colleges in 4 days! By the end she was sure of her top choice and applied ED after doing a sleepover at that school in October of senior year just to be 100% sure.

I kind of agree that huge urban schools like NYU, BostonU, McGill, Northeastern, etc just don’t seem like the best educational options, but some people thrive there, and it wasn’t my call. We did look at some of these with one or the other of my Ds. Frankly it’s hard not to see NYU and hanging out in Greenwich Village as way cool.

11

Visit visit visit. My kid’s understanding of what’s desirable/undesirable has evolved immensely since we started doing that.

Start with different types of schools that are simply convenient to visit. No pressure, no expectation, just give her a chance to see how she reacts to a variety of environments. It’s different for them when it’s concrete. Once the field has narrowed a bit, target your visits to match schools that are good examples of what she thinks she wants, plus a few that meet what you think she wants. (Junior year school breaks, when some colleges are in session even when your school is not, can be great for this.) It will all be so much clearer after that. And there may be surprises for both of you.

And if there are a few schools you see her at that she doesn’t quite get yet, encourage her to at least apply to a couple of “Mom schools” anyway, and sort it all out once she knows where she’s in.

12

@mjrube94 please note that Lafayette is at least a 1-1/2 hour drive from Center City Philadelphia. You’ll find that out when you visit of course, but just a heads up.

13

I think visiting is an excellent idea for both of you. I think you’ll find that there are a huge number of schools that are urban yet small with a classic campus feel. One that pops into my head is CWRU. It has about 4600 undergrads, is 20 minutes from downtown Cleveland by bus or train. Cleveland has 3 pro sports teams, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Playhouse Square the second largest theater district next to NYC. On the university campus is the Cleveland Art Museum, Cleveland Symphony (from your CC name I sense she may be a musician?), and Botanical Gardens. They have a greek life but it is very different from the typical greek presence on college campuses. However, it really does feel like a college campus and not a campus stuck in the middle of a city. I am from the area and can name others in the midwest, however, I am sure there are campuses all over the country that would meet both of your visions of what a college should be. Good luck.

14

Lafayette & Lehigh are both roughly just as far (or near) to NYC as they are to Philly.
I believe both schools have opportunities for trips to either cities for certain events but it would not be convenient for a student (unlike a school on the mainline where students can hop on the train to get to Philly).
On the other hand Bethlehem & Easton are both cities, not just college towns.

15

OP, I saw your other posts too. I think you should be encouraging your D to do what she wants, and to make sure she enjoys her time in HS and is happy. It’s really too early to focus on colleges. Visiting colleges in the context of a Boston vacation is fine, but do fun things in Boston too. Less than 50% of her academic record has been established yet. There is nothing really predictive. She will grow and change before anything you do now becomes relevant.

16

Of course I’m letting her enjoy HS and letting her express what she wants. Having freedom to be herself and to relax in a comfortable environment is part of the reason I’d like her to consider LACs. My concern (and perhaps I wasn’t clear enough), is that she has ideas about what she wants that are mostly based on uninformed speculation rather than actual exposure to different college environments.

I know it is early in the process, but I disagree that it is really early, as most families seem to begin visiting schools when their child is a junior. Since she wants to go away to school, we are just trying to get a handle on where we might want to visit so that we can start to loosely plan some trips. My daughter will be taking very tough courses junior year and between that and having two working parents, we can’t just pick up and go wherever and whenever.

17

In order to avoid lots of angst later, try the net price calculator for various schools, and create a list of affordable schools considering the total cost for 4 -5 years of college attendance. Assume an inflation of 3-5 % (year over year), based on the colleges colleges’ historic record. Note that major scholarships are very competitive.
Encourage your daughter to explore & attend a summer program at any of the universities from your affordable list of schools. Try to steer her away from expensive universities where the cost of yearly attendance is sky high. My D was leaning towards Liberal Arts until her Junior year, but after attending a 2 week summer introductory program in entrepreneurship & law, she became more interested in marketing.
You may also encourage your D to consider universities in Europe, While the future US $/Euro exchange rate will be hard to predict, Euro exchange rates are historically low & if it continues to be the case (doubtful, but worth monitoring!), many of European universities may be similar to in-state US universities for their cost of attendance. Also many (European universities) have 3 year undergraduate programs. For example, Sciences Po (France) has a 3 year UG degree program in Social Sciences (Economics, Political Science etc. ) where a student spends 2 years at any one of its several campuses in France, and a mandatory 3rd year of study abroad, and finish the final year at a major university around the world. They also have a combined dual degree program with Columbia University and University of British Columbia (Vancouver, Canada), whereby students obtain 2 undergraduate degrees in 4 years, one from Sciences Po & the other from their joint program partner university.
Liberal arts undergraduate education provides good educational foundation. While creating a list of likely schools, keep in mind their affordability, chances for personal growth, and the ones that provide several pathways to pursue marketable skills at the graduate level.

18

One standard piece of advice is that you plan to visit several different types of colleges in several different settings. While each place is distinct, there are enough commonalities that a visit to just one Big Public State U In A College Town, one Small Rural LAC, one LAC In A City, and one University In A City can help your daughter get a notion of the environments that appeal to her. If there is a particular city she thinks she’d like to be in, you could also visit several different types of institution in that one city.

You haven’t mentioned whether money is any concern at all. If it is, then sit with her and run the Net Price Calculators at the websites of some of her current favorites. This will give you a good opportunity to talk with her about how she can use the NPCs to determine whether or not any particular college or university is likely to be affordable for your family. That way she can be attentive to the money issues as she works on her college list.

19

Often the “urban” versus “rural” setting for a mid-size (or larger) university is overstated. Students tend to spend much (and not infrequently all) of their time on campus, certainly in their freshman and sophomore years.

I would encourage you to let your daughter make the decision of location and school size and for you to respect that decision. I doubt that gentle steering works. It’s more likely to build resentment. What matters much more than location are the academics and education quality of the college your daughter chooses (assuming that it’s one you can comfortably afford). This is where encouragement to pick the right fit is most important, much more so if your daughter leans toward choosing a college that is less challenging than her abilities suggest.

20

I feel your pain. Schools don’t make this process easy. That’s why you need to effectively use vacation weeks junior year. We tried your approach using Columbus Day, Veterans Day, etc junior year but the schools were mobbed and D2 got very little out of visits before she was mentally ready to get serious spring of junior year. This was after the HS had the college assembly for parents and their juniors in February of junior year. That seemed to be the signal for the kids to get serious. Before that, it was just parents being aggressive. Columbus and Veterans day visits senior year were much more beneficial because the kid was serious by then.

A couple of other logistical tips: Some schools like Northwestern, Dartmouth UChicago, Union, and Carleton are on the quarter system. That means you may be able to have meaningful visits around the Memorial Day weekend junior year assuming it lines up before that school’s finals week.

Also, some colleges start in the fall earlier than your student goes back to school, so visiting the week before school starts as a senior can be helpful. Summer visits at small schools were generally not helpful. At large schools they were because there were people around.

Some schools will only interview spring juniors or fall seniors (Wellesley, Rochester), so if an on-campus interview is needed, you really want to wait until they can interview your kid so that you don’t have to visit twice.