Collegeboard is Ridiculous

<p>I'm not a constitutional attorney and it's been many years since law school. I'll do my best; if someone has a more nuanced explanation, go for it.</p>

<p>The question of federal money only goes to the power of the federal government to regulate. It doesn't mean that anything a fundee does is subject to constitutional restrictions. For instance, a private person can't violate, say, the equal protection clause. They might be made subject to a federal civil rights law passed to enforce the equal protection clause, however.</p>

<p>Actually, private schools get federal money too.</p>

<p>The only way the action of a state entity can violate the US constitution is through the 14th Amendment. (Something called the incorporation doctrine has made most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the state, saying that these rights constitute the "due process" guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.)</p>

<p>Even if there is a good argument that something a state entity has done is stupid or unfair, this doesn't make it unconstitutional. An argument that the SAT is flawed doesn't rise to the same level as an equal protection challenge to a racial classification. The scrutiny a court would give to the former would be limited, since the only way I can see to attack it would be to say it violates substantive due process. The standard for this is whether a reasonable person COULD agree with the action taken -- a very low standard which in practice nearly everything can meet. So if a reasonable public college administrator might rely on the SAT, there would be no constitutional infirmity.</p>

<p>The fact that the test is private is really irrelevant. It isn't as if the public entity has delegated a particular function to a private firm and has no oversight over what it does. Colleges can choose to put as little or much emphasis on the test as they want. They can tell the College Board they don't like the test, which recently happened and the test was changed.</p>

<p>I personally don't like the idea of the College Board determining what a typical high school course (SAT II) or typical introductory college course (AP) entails. It seems that it comes down to how well given high school teachers can guess what will be covered on the test. As a homeschooling parent, I was on some boards for teachers of AP subjects for a couple years. I found that most of the discussion was trying to figure out which book prepared best for the test, which parts might be omitted, what was due to show up on the exam that particular year, etc. So my daughter just went with the ACT and took some actual college courses. That way we could decide for ourselves what to study and which texts to use.</p>

<p>I don't find the ACT perfect. My daughter asked for the score sheet and questions back and challenged several of the items marked wrong. I think she had a very good argument, but they just said they were right. Still, she did well enough to get into the school she really wanted (Brown) so I can't really complain too much.</p>

<p>I like the ACT much better, also. How did she go about challenging questions? I have seen a couple that I think I could dispute.</p>

<p>I just realized why my prior to prior post (lol) was wrong. I didn't mean unconstitutional (though i said it), i meant like.. the government could say "you can't do that" or something like that. I understand, now, that it wouldn't be affected by the constitution, but maybe the gov't could intervene legally?</p>

<p>"Where is your proof of this? I remember reading an article about schools that stopped needing test scores and researched that their scores had absolutely NO EFFECT on how well students performed in college."</p>

<p>They showed us this correlation in my intro to statistics and probability class for past years and actual students. I can speak for CMU that this correlation does exist. I do not know which article you are referring to.</p>

<p>of course there is "NO EFFECT" on how well students performed in college. IT WOULDN'T EFFECT IT! (shouldn't it be Affect?) affect means to change, or to have an impact upon. how could a test score change how well you do something? it doesnt change anything, it measures.
so ya i guess i agree w/ u that it doesnt affect how the students performed in college...
but it does correlate w/ .9<br>
ur in intro to stats.. i shouldn't have to explain this.
lets say you have 5 kids. here's how their study habits/grades go
kid 1- 10 hours a week of studying, 3.5 GPA
kid 2- 5 hours a week of studying, 3.1 GPA
kid 3- 2 hours a week of studying, 2.6 GPA
kid 4- 4 hours a week of studying, 3.2 GPA
kid 5- 21 hours a week of studying, 4.0 GPA</p>

<p>obviously, if a kid has a high GPA, it doesnt make him study more. so how could the SAT score make you do better in college?</p>

<p>however.. these kids prove a CORRELATION. if you were to plot (GPA is Y axis, studying time is X axis on a line graph) those kid's studying hours versus GPA, you would see an upward line-ish. it's called a scatter plot. as u would be able to tell, the line shows that as studying goes up, generally speaking, gpa goes up.</p>

<p>did you just start intro to stats like this week?</p>

<p>btw i was slightly mistaken, the correlation is .6, not .9. anything above .2 is considered significant.</p>

<p>I made a myspace group awhile ago called "I hate the collegeboard" so to me, this thread is beautiful.</p>

<p>lol...nice</p>

<p>rightwing,</p>

<p>There is a form on the ACT web site where you can express concerns about particular questions. I can't remember where it is. Perhaps in the "contact us" area ... You can always write to them to complain, too. I don't know how often CB or ACT will actually back down on a question, though. Probably not that often!</p>

<p>My daughter had an argument about a few questions. But I bet most students looking at the questions and answers could come up with arguments about a few. So I don't know if she was disadvantaged.</p>

<p>One reason she didn't take the SAT I was the analogy questions (no longer included). Like her father, she thinks a lot of these are arbitrary. I never had a problem with them, but they can come up with reasons why different things work and profess an inability to understand the answer the testmakers are obviously searching for.</p>

<p>I think you would enjoy the Hoffman book I mentioned before. It provides lots of examples of arguable multiple choice questions. But his point seems to be dropping multiple choice altogether, and I don't see how this would be practical. It will be interesting to see if colleges find the writing sections of the SAT and ACT useful and whether people will think that they are appropriately graded. The tests have changed over time but it doesn't seem like folks are ever satisfied. I would think that you could have lots of arguments about the grading of essay questions, too.</p>

<p>The government could always intervene, but you need the will to do so. I don't know offhand what the federal hook would be without new legislation. States can always regulate their own universities -- but they obviously are satisfied with the way things are right now. What input on the nature of the tests seems to be informal. For instance, the UCal system wanted a writing test and got it. CB is trying to do some quality control of AP courses. I don't think this came because they needed something to do; colleges weren't satisfied.</p>

<p>DianeR mentioned my main complaint with the SAT. It is a multiple choice test. There is some type of savant ability that enables some people to do extremely well on multiple choice tests while this ability gives them no advantage in "real" life. </p>

<p>This is particularly true on the math portion of the test where the best test-taking technique is to plug in numbers until you find whether A, B, C, or D works. This is not how a mathematician thinks and it doesn't prove the answer, but it is the fastest (and the actually the least error prone) way to take the test. </p>

<p>I have a math degree and when looking at the tests, I could easily prove the answer, but this method would be way too slow. Of course, there are few very places in life where this will help you (except when taking other multiple choice tests). In this sense, the SAT is a predictor of success in college where there are more multiple choice tests, although there are not very many multiple choice tests in physics, chemistry or math.</p>

<p>"of course there is "NO EFFECT" on how well students performed in college. IT WOULDN'T EFFECT IT! (shouldn't it be Affect?) affect means to change, or to have an impact upon. how could a test score change how well you do something? it doesnt change anything, it measures.
so ya i guess i agree w/ u that it doesnt affect how the students performed in college...
but it does correlate w/ .9
"</p>

<p>Okay you just made yourself look like a total idiot. I never said effect/affect at all. Perhaps you should learn how to read?</p>

<p>I only said there was a correlation between SAT and college GPA. It is not perfectly linear but there is such a correlation. </p>

<p>If you're gonna flame me, make sure you read what I've written.</p>

<p>"did you just start intro to stats like this week?"</p>

<p>Did you just start reading like this week?</p>

<p>oo. just kidding.. I misread your post. indeed, you did acknowledge the correlation. sorry.</p>