<p>Seems like at most top schools the normal load is 4 classes per term, But at some it’s 5 classes per term. Given your particular preferences, I’d avoid the ones where 5 is a typical load.</p>
<p>Actually, the number of classes doesn’t mean a heavier workload. Where students take 4 classes, they have heavier reading/writing assignement.Each class is worth 4 credits. Where students take 5 classes, they have fewer hours of homework per class period, but the same total, since each class is worth 3 credits, except those classes with a lab. A full time student who wants to graduate in 4 years should have 16 credits in 4-classes per term systems, and 15 credits in 5-classes per term systems. </p>
<p>Yeah, I know that’s the theory…but I’ve attended both types of schools, and juggling 5 balls at a hard college is more complex than 4 balls at a hard college. I think professors teach the same class and require the same amount of work whether they are teaching a 3-credit or 4-credit course. Do you really think if a professor moves from a 3-credit school to a 4-credit school he/she is going to add 33% more work to his/her classes? Maybe it wouldn’t be a big deal for some people, but the OP’s kid seems to want to avoid being overwhelmed. </p>
<p>^yup, I know for a fact that professors have guidelines and that they’re different depending on how much a class is worth (ie., 50 to 80 pages reading per class for 4-credit class, 20 to 30 pages reading per class for 3-credit class - same class, different institutions at the same level.)
The total amount of work is the same, so it depends whether one likes reading/work in fewer subjects or whether one would rather spread that work out more. </p>
<p>I was also going to suggest Brown, if only for the fact that you could take all of your classes Satisfactory/No credit, which takes away some grade pressure…of course, in my day, I didn’t know anyone who took ALL classes that way, but there were many (including me) who took any non-concentration classes S/NC. It can be a stress reliever to know that if time is short, you can put a little less effort into your Underwater Basketweaving and still get by with a pass.</p>
<p>For that matter, there’s Harvard, with it’s rampant grade inflation, though Brown is even more lax. It’\s tough to get less than a B according to reputation if you pick the right classes.</p>
<p>hey @Mastadon would you mind also posting your great note about Tufts in the Tufts forum as well? I ask because my D is considering that school (along with others) and yours is truly the best insights I’ve seen…it would be very helpful to all, i believe! </p>
<p>Myos, I have taught at 4 different colleges and have never been given any guidelines like that. Maybe it happens, but it seems to go against the academic freedom most schools extend to faculty.</p>
<p>Well, it’s academic freedom within a context: I suppose you checked some previous syllabi and checked how much was “normal”; if you give 80 pages to freshmen used to 20, you’ll heard about it very quickly or the class will not proceed as planned. The information could be official as part of your departmental orientation, it could be well-meaning colleagues, but you adapt the students’ workload to what the institutional norm is. (And if you change selectivity level, you really have to - I had to totally overhaul a syllabus when I went from flagship to bottom third directional supposedly having the same class as at the flagship.) It’s the same if you teach MWF and TTh: you can’t just decide that 1 day= 1 day - although you may not cover as much in two days as in three, you can’t consider that the TTH classes will get 1/3 less than the MWF classes. What matters is the credit weight (and, to a certain extent, the number of minutes).</p>
<p>No, none of that micromanagement has ever happened to me. I submit the syllibi to the dept. chair, but I’ve never had anybody talk about numbers of pages or anything like that. I can’t even imagine someone trying to say that 3 credits equal x pages. What subject do u teach?</p>
<p>What is the cause for concern with distance - school’s being “too far”? Not being able to drive (or be driven) home when things go awry? I would look for fit regardless of distance. Then again, my kids are on opposite coasts and I’m in the mid-west so we are used to distance.</p>
<p>Agree with a public university honors college. </p>
<p>Also agree that if she doesn’t want to be swamped, don’t go to college. Even regular programs at state schools have a lot of homework freshman year.</p>
<p>I happen to think that a smaller private school would be a better fit. Some ideas - Muhlenberg, Whwaton (MA) Connecticut College and Clark University. </p>
<p>Mt Holyoke seems supportive as well if she is open to a women’s college. Drew is fairly well respected and isn’t a pressure cooler.</p>
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<p>I’m the parent of a recent Williams alum. There is a lot to love about Williams, but it is absolutely not what you are looking for. There is a lot of work, it can feel very pressured, not enough hours in the day. You are looking for something else and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’d suggest looking below the top 20 LACs. The mid-range ones will still provide a solid education but without such intensity. You are wise to consider the right fit for your daughter.</p>
<p>OP, I don’t have specific suggestions, but want to applaud you for thinking ahead and researching beyond a college reputation and rankings.</p>
<p>“Fit” is extremely important, and finding “Community” of like-minded students is a great way to establish “Fit”.</p>
<p>Every student is unique, and there are thousands of colleges out there offering different environments and atmospheres. It helps to have multiple filters of desired campus attributes to narrow down the possibilities.</p>
<p>Yeah, I would think that most of the very top colleges are going to have a certain amount of pressure/competitiveness. Those colleges get the students who were almost invariably in the top 10% of their classes and used to running around balancing everything, and they don’t necessarily slow down just because they are now in college. I find it a bit hard to believe that Williams, currently the #1 LAC and always in the top 5, would be a laid-back kind of place where students are not overwhelmed with work.</p>
<p>I went to a top 100 liberal arts college that wasn’t in the top 50, and it was the kind of environment you describe, OP. I was a big fish in a small pond - possibly the biggest fish, as I had the highest SAT score in my incoming class. My classmates were still very intelligent; the workload was easily manageable but I still got a lot of intellectual development and learned a whole lot there. I recently finished my PhD at a top 10 program, so going to a lower-ranked school hasn’t hurt me much intellectually - but I also didn’t want to be in a place where I felt overwhelmed with work. I wanted to be somewhere I could develop my interests and hobbies and participate in a lot of extracurriculars. A full scholarship didn’t hurt, either.</p>
<p>So I agree with the advice to look below the top 30 or so LACs, and/or at places where your daughter’s stats put her in the top 25% or so of applicants. Within 300 miles of Long Island, that might be Sarah Lawrence, Marist, Gettysburg, Trinity College, Connecticut College, Bard, Union, St. John’s (a Great Books college), Muhlenberg, Wheaton College (in MA), Allegheny, maybe Juniata, Siena, College of New Rochelle. They could also be smaller universities and colleges nearby - like Adelphi, Hofstra, SUNY-Old Westbury (which is actually like a public LAC), Fordham, SUNY-Purchase, SUNY-New Paltz (both smaller SUNY campuses - a couple of friends went to New Paltz and loved it, and got very involved on campus including serving as student body president and vice president), perhaps Stony Brook. Now, being ranked lower by U.S. News doesn’t necessarily mean that the colleges don’t have a competitive atmosphere there, so I’d recommend chatting with current students either here or on tours.</p>
<p>Of course I would advise the OP’s daughter to choose her college by fit – both academic and social – but, at the same time, I wouldn’t eliminate the most selective colleges just yet. Visit, try to overnight, get a feeling of how the students deal with academic pressure, how the faculty and administration deal with anxiety. Popular stress outlets vary widely from school to school, and often a comfortable social atmosphere can compensate for challenging academics.</p>
<p>I would certainly not characterize Williams as “laid back” but at the same time I don’t see the academic pressure as necessarily “overwhelming.” It’s difficult to generalize, and I do understand that anxiety can be debilitating, but at the same time I wouldn’t underestimate the anxious student’s desire to excel. My observation is that what is perceived as a low-stress alternative often just redirects the internal anxiety to another set of worries. The anxiety, which is highly internal, resurfaces in different forms.</p>
<p>The balance between anxiety and accomplishment among intellectually and artistically gifted children is difficult to manage for both the child and the parent. Perfectionism and fear of failure are unreconcilable: something has to give.
I don’t think there’s a universal answer, but to me the key is not to try to eliminate the challenge, but to supplement it with positive alternatives.</p>
<p>The OP’s daughter sounds to me like a classic case of gifted and anxious – top of her class, intellectually curious, creative, achievement oriented and proud of her accomplishments but finds it difficult to come to closure on abstractions. [I can certainly relate to the OP’s comment that “a writing assignment with open-ended possibilities can often be more stressful than a math problem.”] </p>
<p>Taming (or at least soothing) the anxiety beast is a challenge for many creative people. How the student defines success is critical. If s/he aims for all A’s, then a fiercely rigorous school may not be for her. If, on the other hand, s/he enjoys being surrounded by thinkers and doers who appreciate her humor and insight, then she might find her place i among the intellectually and creatively driven. </p>
<p>As I mentioned, what students do in their non-class time contributes greatly to stress relief, and my impression of Williams and other activity/arts oriented colleges is that students choose positive options to blow off steam. I don’t mean that high achieving high school students “slow down” once they are at Williams, but rather that they learn how to balance school work with other activities in a way that that is affirming and sustainable throughout their lives.</p>
<p>Momrath, you hit the nail on the head. Thanks. My daughter is not afraid of work --she is not lazy (which would make me agree that she isn’t ready for college) nor is she debilitatingly anxious. She just wants a place where she is not swamped with repetitive homework, and which has a balance. And by that I don’t mean a balance of academics with partying, but a balance with other activities, esp those of the creative type. You are correct in characterizing her as intellectually and artistically gifted with a perfectionistic streak. I am just trying to help her figure out how to find the best fit. I have seen too many smart kids go off to college and get burned out or have breakdowns of one sort or another.</p>
<p>Well said @momrath! Also, your college suggestions in post #8 sound like a great list for the OP! I have to say my daughter sounds a LOT like your son and @NSG420’s daughter. My D spent two days at Williams and really got comfortable with the students, professors and the administration. It seems very academically and artistically challenging, but also friendly and nurturing. My D is really enjoying Brown and she seems much less anxious there than in high school. Again, I would highly recommend Brown. I would have said Barnard as well, but would defer to @calmom’s opinion, as we just spent one day there.</p>
<p>Take a look at UNC. I have it on good authority that there are courses u can get automatic A’s, and you don’t have to do any work or even show up for class. And it’s all vetted by the NCAA and accredited by the SAC… :D/ </p>