<p>So we are conducting college search #2 for younger daughter and are struggling to come up with options. Her priorities are: 1) its cool to be smart, 2) a name school, and 3) a flexible curriculum. She doesn't want a big party scene ("OMG! I was soooo waaaaaaasssted!" Uh. No.). She doesn't want to have to explain to anyone where she went. She isn't sure what she wants to major in and is very intellectually curious so might want to create own program. (Has previously expressed interest in both Economics & Computer Science.)</p>
<p>Her stats:
Rising senior from extremely competitive, college prep HS. GPA: 3.7 unweighted, 3.9 weighted.
All Honors & AP classes
ACT: 31
ECs: Excellent. Broad diversity. National and regional awards won.</p>
<p>She is looking East Coast to Mid-west. Size somewhere less than 10,000 UG but probably bigger than 2,000. Fortunately :) we are not limited by cost. </p>
<p>My general impression (from talking with all the kids I know who started college last year) is that it’s cool to be smart at just about every school where you’re with your peers. And it seems that at most schools the party scene is largely your choice, but I understand the social pressures to conform.</p>
<p>FWIW, my son loves it at Vandy. Might be worth considering for your daughter, but be aware that the ACT middle-50 range is 32-34.</p>
<p>With your 2,000 lower limit, you’re eliminating most of the LACs, which may actually be what she wants as far as everything else goes. Sounds small, but really isn’t, plus has the advantage of no massive lecture classes for the intro classes - max class size at most LACs is 75, many never go beyond 30. No TAs and the professors will all know your name - no skipping on class or they’ll want to know where you were. Totally cool to be a smart kid there too, nearly everyone is. Many have totally flexible curriculums with few to no core requirements. May not be known by the ESPN crowd, but they all have strong alumni networks. Not saying it’s the definitive answer, but don’t eliminate them before she has a chance to tour and get a feel.</p>
<p>Top LACs she’d be a good candidate for without crazy party scenes: Colby, Bates, Hamilton, Connecticut, Lafayette, Oberlin, Kenyon. There are plenty more to look at if she decides she’s interested in that type of school.</p>
<p>Non-LACs that she should consider and would be a good candidate for: Rochester, William & Mary, Boston U, Case Western.</p>
<p>@perfectfit : For national universities, she may as well throw Emory, WashU, Chicago, and JHU in. She would have the best shot at Emory and JHU though. These are places that have names, but not based on athletics and have less of a party scene than other national U’s. They are kind of “work hard play hard” (though many would claim that is debatable for Chicago) with a much larger leaning toward “work hard” than places where both sports and Greek life may be huge. Also, students tend to be attracted to those schools because of the strength of certain academic departments as opposed to other things so it makes a difference. It’s very different from mainly attracting students who say “this place is very good academically and is a lot of fun”. That’s code for more of a “it’s a traditional work hard play hard school”. As an example, many students going to Emory or WashU may express very high interest or familiarity with certain departments like neuroscience at the UG level, Hopkins BME and biology, Chicago, economics, math, physics (and tons of others). Basically, saying that specific programs are attracting students to these schools. It isn’t more like “whatever, my major need only be good enough”. The only weakness about national U’s is that you will find crap tons of pre-professionals who seem to have their mind made up and often get kind of jaded by their academic experiences (as in they loose curiousity in favor of grades over time) and I feel the curricular structure and focus on teaching at LAC’s makes it less likely for that phenomenon to be as pervasive. But with that said, from national U’s, you could better results from places well known for certain academic programs of study (not just pre-prof. preparation, but the specific discipline) because students will likely be more excited about the classes and the research going on in those fields and delve deeper than students with more of “it’s good enough and I can do well in the courses” approach to academics. </p>
<p>It seems like your daughter is trying to find a place where she and the peers are more genuinely excited about the academics/certain academic divisions as opposed to primarily having the generic/standard college experience at well-known institution (as in a “make good grades and have fun” sort of school). LAC’s and places like W&M and Case Western honestly seem to be the best bet. I would advise you look at some options (as in colleges), asking your daughter what she could potentially see herself studying or taking courses in, and hit the departmental websites and see what types of courses they offer. In addition, see what degree options they offer to undergraduates. See if there are any special programs to UGs beyond just honors. Like see if the department hosts fellowships, experiential oppurtunities, study abroad options, undergraduate clubs/seminars, research symposia, etc (maybe special course tracks such as practicum courses or degree tracks such as Masters within that division or between the division and another entity. One would also expect many joint majors or concentrations…). Departments would not offer so many opps. if students were uninterested or were not taking advantage of them. If you don’t see many things like that, it suggests that the department (and if several depts, then maybe the institution) isn’t doing much to intellectually activate (at the departmental level) its undergraduate students and perhaps that students really aren’t even demanding it (they treat their academic department or major as just a series of courses and depts. see UG’s as “customers” that take the courses). </p>
<p>^^ Not true for anyone, if you’re talking about Match in the CC sense. However, given OPs stats, getting in CMU for CompSci is unlikely, therefore I steered away from recommending it.</p>
<p>mr mom 62 …Economics was also listed, tepper is a very competitive school to get in but it is worth a shot. comp science at carnegie and you’re playing on the top level the world over…so on that angle you are correct.<br>
<a href=“http://tepper.cmu.edu/”>http://tepper.cmu.edu/</a></p>
<p>Brown. Everyone is really intellectual (and friendly), it’s less pre-professional than some of its Ivy peers, definitely a name school, and the Open Curriculum. Very flexible. Also has strong programs in computer science and economics. Plus, you can create your own major. It’s pretty much what your daughter wants. There is a party scene but plenty of people are not involved and they are “still cool”. Obviously a reach.</p>
<p>I second CMU. It is also very flexible and what OP’s daughter wants, but getting in for computer science is tough. Amherst is good too, but its size might be too small for your daugher.</p>
<p>Ignoring her stats…Swarthmore and U of Chicago are tops for students who want a truly intellectual environment. But without higher standardized test scores, her chances are slim there (my kid got into both with an UW GPA 3.7, but very high test scores to offset that). If she does decide CS is her preferred major, add Harvey Mudd to that list. Benefit of a small school with the size of the Claremont Consortium to offset it (although it is West Coast – but once she has to get on a plane, what does it matter?).</p>
<p>Seems like she would be smart enough to know that “name brand” isn’t important in this process (or is a parent or someone else pushing her in the direction?). Carleton doesn’t fit the size criteria, but is another place where it is cool to be smart. Cornell is bigger than she wants, but she could find a lot of students there who think it is cool to be smart, and she might have a shot at admission (again, better test scores would help). I think smart is cool at Mount Holyoke – they aren’t big, but they are part of a consortium (although the colleges aren’t right close together like they are at some of the others).</p>
<p>Schools that come to mind include Reed, St Johns, Carleton, and University of Chicago. All are into the intellectual and have a “learning for the sake of learning” atmosphere, where students are really passionate about their studies. Not sure if they all offer CS though.</p>
<p>It’s been mentioned before, but I’d put my vote in for William and Mary. Aside from it being the school I am currently attending, it fits all your criteria. It’s size is right smack dab in the middle of the range you described, with small class sizes but an active and diverse student body. It is a national university with great name recognition, compared to some smaller schools of similar size, yet there is alot of professor-student interaction. It was previously rated for #1 in undergraduate teaching for public schools. It also has a liberal arts-like philosophy which encourages exploration, so you don’t have to be sure what you’re studying right off the bat. Students generally like to have fun, but use alternate routes than partying. In the current facebook group that I am in, there have been many philosophical discussions such as : what is life? what is beauty? how do we know we are real? ect. to full on discussions about music, shows, and even debates. It’s by far the most interesting college group (in terms of people and conversations) that I have been part of. It also has the option to create your own major and CS and econ has both been mentioned as strong departments. (Man, it seems to hit all the points actually)</p>
<p>The only thing I have to warn you about is that because it is a public school, it can be harder to get into OOS. Not impossible, but the standards are higher. </p>
<p>Good luck, and I hope you take W&M into consideration in your college search.</p>
<p>I want a similar environment as you OP, and I am going to apply to Case Western and U-Rochester. They have intellectual vibes and are somewhat of self-recruiting schools. However the former is in Cleveland, OH, a city, at least from what I’ve heard, isn’t for everyone.</p>
<p>People keep mentioning Chicago but they’re forgetting about its core curriculum and numerous requirements. I doubt that this is the “flexible curriculum” OP is looking for.</p>
<p>Hate to break it to you but outside of the tippy-top schools and those with big-name athletics, she’s going to be explaining. Is this your first child going through this? There are many horror stories about kids who get hung up on prestige, only to be disappointed when the colleges they want don’t want them back and they have to settle for the kinds of schools they made fun of others applying to.</p>
<p>Also, there is partying at pretty much every college. And it’s “cool to be smart” at a lot more schools than you’d think. Other people have given you some great ideas, and I second the recommendation on LACs.</p>
<p>There is no computer science at Reed. The math department offers several courses in CS every year, and is planning to offer even more (just hired a new prof). Swarthmore sounds like a good fit – it has really strong programs in econ and CS – but it is a reach. I would also recommend Vassar and Grinnell, which have open curricula.</p>
<p>OP’s D doesn’t seem like someone who would thrive at Colgate or Bucknell. Students at those schools party a lot (although the engineering students at Bucknell don’t as much).</p>
<p>I fourth U of Rochester. I was reading online and when asked to pick one word to describe the opposite gender, 99% of them said smart. It’s also open curriculum but may not be the name school you want. </p>
This is not a “smart” way to pick (or eliminate) a college and does not reflect the realities of college quality and recognition by the masses. Joe Everyman enjoying a fro-yo at the mall has never heard of Oberlin or Reed or even Vassar. Employers and Graduate Schools will know them. Your daughter would benefit from deeper self-directed research into this process. Best wishes.</p>
<p>I love it when “name recognition” questions come up. I graduated from Barnard. I understand that people from outside of the NYC area didn’t immediately recognize the name, but was rendered speechless when interviewing for a job in Manhattan where the personnel officer kept saying “Bernard Baruch College?” (ie. the undergraduate business college of City University). She had never heard of Barnard. I think the OP’s daughter should probably look at more small, liberal arts colleges, because the sort of “open curriculum” she seems interested in is likeliest to be available at them. I suggest Hampshire, Bennington, New College of Florida, and Bard. Colorado College, Pitzer, and Reed (although it has a required Humanities survey) would all fit the bill if she’s willing to venture further west. My son had similar stats, by the way. He was waitlisted at Reed, was accepted at Pitzer, and is going to New College (the price-tag was too good to pass on). Her stats would make Brown a huge reach. </p>
<p>Thank you so much for all the options!!! She is looking at W&M, Case Western, and CM. I am sure that a lot of the LACs are “cool to be smart places” but she has been at a pretty small school in a sheltered environment and we think she needs to get out a bit more. She really likes Brown (and went for a summer class there this summer) but we are not at all certain she can get in. Just looked at Wesleyan and I think it is close enough to what she wants to warrant a visit.</p>
<p>bernie12 is exactly right with “she and the peers are more genuinely excited about the academics/certain academic divisions as opposed to primarily having the generic/standard college experience at well-known institution (as in a “make good grades and have fun” sort of school).” She’s kind of nerdy and proud of it. I think a lot of the “name school” phenomena is because older sister goes to University of Dayton and is constantly having to explain to people what UD is.</p>
<p>We just found out Duke has a flexible curriculum option. Would she get in?</p>