<p>I agree with the writer who suggested the book: Colleges That Change Lives." Many of them are small and in the midwest. They might not have a "national" reputation, but the graduates come out with a great education and go on to top grad schools. A few that come to mind are: Ohio Wesleyan, Denison, Allegheny.</p>
<p>They have a website that lists the colleges: Colleges</a> That Change Lives</p>
<p>Kid lives in Seattle? What luck: Evergreen. With in-state tuition, a 97% admit rate, and all the academic freedom a kid could ever want... that would be a perfect place for the kid to get his dad off his back & bide his time until he eventually figured out what he wanted to do.</p>
<p>As the parent of a (once) Daniel-type ("brilliant but lazy") and a highly ambitious, focused Ivy wannabe, I have to say that a private college tuition is wasted on the kid who lacks the motivation to get his college apps done without heavy-handed parental hovering. I know... I've been there, done that, we all probably make that mistake the first time around. We figure our kids deserve the best, and gosh darn it, we're going to get them there if we have to drag them every step of the way. </p>
<p>If I had it all to do over again I would stay out of my son's way. It would have been cheaper and a better learning experience if I had let him miss deadlines in high school, because he sure missed his share of of deadlines once he was in college. </p>
<p>8 years down the line my son is a gainfully employed success story, and he did manage to pick up a college degree along the way... but he needed to to it on his own. </p>
<p>My d, the driving, ambitious one pretty much pounced on college and took all they had to offer... but seeing her experience just reinforces the fact to me that the reason the laid-back kids don't get into Yale is because they don't belong there, at least not in today's hyper-competitive environment. </p>
<p>Hopefully, Daniel-with-the-obsessed-father will end up happy next year at some college that his Dad has pegged as a safety and which in reality is a good fit for him.... and maybe sometime in the future some parent will actually master the art of letting their kids figure out at least 90% of the college stuff on their own. And if that happened, maybe life would get easier for everyone, because it would probably cut the flood of applications to the "top" colleges at least in half and restore some sanity to the whole process.</p>
<p>Honors colleges at some state universities are also another excellent option. Honors students with strong academic and research interests are often thrown the welcome mat to work with professors on research projects. The Honors Colleges at University of Kansas, University of Mississippi, and Miami of Ohio are but a few of many options (though, of course, there are some honors programs that are as almost as difficult to get into as some of the Ivies such as the one at Penn State). </p>
<p>My son who is bright but no superstar recently graduated from Texas Tech Honors College. The personal attention and interest of the Honors faculty in the lives of the students was amazing. He got to know the Honors Dean quite well and would go to lunch with him several times a year. They even helped get him his first job in the "real world". One of the Honors Administration staff who knew the college recruiter for a major corporation put in a plug for my son who now has a job there. </p>
<p>Don't forget to consider state honors colleges while also considering the excellent small liberal arts colleges discussed in this thread.</p>
<p>What strikes me as really weird in the article is the fact that this bright but laid back, underachieving kid put in an early decision application to Yale. I assume this was the father's doing. Why would the father ever think that Yale would be a good match for his son? Why is this nation obsessed with HYP?</p>
<p>I know a kid who was rejected from Yale as a senior in HS. He had good but not stellar high school grades, and like many students rejected by Yale, he's bright. However he wasn't an aggressive, mover and shaker, academic superstar. He later managed to gain entrance to Yale as a transfer because of some unusual circumstances.</p>
<p>The Yale experience been okay but far from perfect. The heavy load of reading requirements has been a challenge for him. He has been discouraged to see that he struggles with this compared to some of his peers who are faster readers. His seminar classes are filled with brilliant and aggressive students so it's hard to get a word in edgewise. He says you fight to be heard. He has also found his major to be a bit traditional and hidebound and not very flexible.</p>
<p>I see a kid who could have gone to a less exalted school, had more freedom to explore his own interests, and been in an environment that would have done a MUCH better job at building his confidence.</p>
<p>After reading the article, I might take a different approach. If Daniel excels in interpersonal relationships and living life outside the classroom, but has the beans to do well enough academically, I would target school where you can get the most mileage out of those skills hopefully graduating college with a roladex that could serve for decades from connections made from both classmates and internships. He might or might not get turned on academically, either way would be a win.
I'm thinking city-centric schools along the lines of USC, NYU, UMiami, BU.</p>
<p>lol, every parent refers to their kid as "a bright kid who doesn't look good on paper." they NEVER entertain the possibility that their kid is not bright.</p>
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lol, every parent refers to their kid as "a bright kid who doesn't look good on paper." they NEVER entertain the possibility that their kid is not bright.
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<p>There are so many types of "bright." In my professional life, I know a lot of commercial real estate brokers. They are college graduates, but you don't hear about their college unless it is playing in the Big Football Game that weekend. They are personable, good talkers, well dressed, mostly attractive, and know the ins and outs of a selling a building. You would never hear them talk about reading Dante, they wouldn't invite you to the symphony, but if you're lucky, they'll invite you to their hunting lease. Except perhaps in these tough times, these guys make a LOT more money than I ever will with my great grades from a great law school. They are "smart" in what they need to be smart in.</p>
<p>^ i don't disagree with you. what i disagree with is the insistence of the father in the article that his son belongs at a school like yale, a school that would lean towards the academic/intellectual definition of brightness.</p>
<p>I like the Evergreen recommendation, esp for bright kids who may share the double whammy of low SAT scores and low GPA.</p>
<p>Make that a triple whammy that includes limited funds available for college.</p>
<p>Nearly all parents think their children are bright kids who don't look great on paper.</p>
<p>Except the parents of those who do look great on paper, of course.</p>
<p>I read the original article and I echo a lot of the comments made already--dad is breathtakingly clueless. If the kid can't be bothered to fill out applications, there's gonna be trouble next year--how is he going to fare when it comes time to navigate registration; pick classes that will propel him toward graduation and work at the independent level required by colleges? It is a wakeup call even for students who did well in high school. You have to be organized and plan your time well as well as be smart enough to do the work.</p>
<p>My son didn't want to play the admissions game either and after a bunch of nagging I backed off. He applied to two schools--he got accepted at our state school and decided not to follow through with the two remaining applications which were safeties. His friends all applied to selective colleges and he admitted to me he now wishes he had taken the SAT II's and retaken the SAT and had aimed a little higher. Lesson learned. I think he'll be fine at the state school, and if not he can transfer.</p>
<p>He is a different kid than his sister, who knew what she wanted and managed her own applications, and I had to let go of what I thought was best for him and let him figure it out on his own.</p>
<p>To add an interesting tidbit to this thread, Garfield High School has been traditionally known as a place with a very high population of African American students who are grossly underrepresented in the large number of advanced classes offered there. Many of the kids in those classes came from Seattle's GATE program - another place where minority students have been traditionally underrepresented.</p>
<p>I just thought it was interesting that we are all talking about a non-minority kid from Garfield who is brilliant but "doesn't look good on paper". Maybe his spot in the advanced classes should have been given to someone who had a tougher road to travel and who possessed a stronger work ethic?</p>
<p>Another vote for Evergreen. A friend's S did not do well in HS, but was a very sharp unconventional kid. After spending about a term at Evergreen the light clicked on and he excelled in that environment. He is now off to law school, a rather unconventional outcome that has a way of making parents conventionally happy.</p>
<p>As for Garfield, any student who qualifies for the AP courses can take them. The problem is in the elementary system and recruiting kids into the highly capable programs, but that is a different story for a different thread.</p>
<p>idad,</p>
<p>When I mention Evergreen to friends, I see pained looks...usually followed by warnings based on niece/nephew/friend's experiences. That is, Evergreen is great for kids who know what they really want, but for those who don't it's an environment where they easily flounder. Since my Daniel-like son will be applying there, it's good to hear a different story</p>
<p>I'm getting pretty sick of parents who know their kid has what it takes to thrive at an Ivy League even though the kid has none of the credentials necessary to be accepted. My little fill in the blank isn't "plastic" like all of those phoney kids who gained acceptance. As the mother of a kid at Yale, the Yalies I've met are far from plastic -- they are bright, social, involved, accomplished and talented. Babyboomer parents need to get over the idea that every single one of our children is "smart enough" for Harvard, just not "plastic" enough to be accepted.</p>
<p>I agree with the statement made by so cal 5. I don't know why students who excel at present should be labeled as "plastic": I think that is a very naive approach to thinking,and reflects somewhat on your idea of your son as brilliant.
Brilliance. To me it evokes images of Einstein, Feynman, Joyce, etc. However, many parents take brilliance to mean something akin to witty or just smart. Moreover, they rationalize the unperceived genius by, "he or she isn't applying his or herself". I know exactly what you mean, my sister has a 100 IQ but I know that if she tried harder she could get a 180!
Lets step back and take a more objective viewpoint: the "plastic kids who get into HYPMA, get in because they ARE better presently for that certain school (excluding Affirmative action kids).</p>
<p>Lunar_eclipse -- I think that a Daniel-type may very well flounder at Evergreen... but at least such floundering doesn't cost $50K a year. Some kids just need some extra time before they get a sense of what they want and where they are going with their education; Evergreen just happens to be a place that affords a lot of flexibility while the student is making that journey. </p>
<p>I just don't think that it makes sense to push an unmotivated student toward a pricey, competitive college when the family has the good fortune to live in a state that offers many perfectly acceptable public universities that have very liberal admissions policies. He could also look at Western Washington U, Washington State College, etc. And the Dad's view of the son's poor stats may be skewed with an eye toward admission at schools like Yale -- its quite possible that this kid could gain admission to UW.</p>
<p>This author of this article is exemplifies the prototypical arrogant parent who grossly overestimates the academic prowess of his child. I mean if the kids grades AND SATs aren't great, what makes one think he deserves to "flourish" at a ridiculously high-end school (HYP). This tremendous focus on status/reputation that only a very few (deserving or undeserving) attain is becoming more prevalent and harmful to our society.</p>
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I'm getting pretty sick of parents who know their kid has what it takes to thrive at an Ivy League even though the kid has none of the credentials necessary to be accepted.
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<p>Makes me think of this
#16</a> “Gifted” Children « Stuff White People Like</p>