colleges for math??

<p>i'm wondering what some good colleges for math are, but i don't have a chance at places like MIT, harvard, etc.</p>

<p>i'll probably be majoring in math and minoring in computer science, or some combination
math is my main interest though</p>

<p>my SATs are cr 640 m 720 w 790
current SATIIs are math 2 690, chem 630, and spanish 560
my GPA is a 4.02 weighted, around a 3.8 or something unweighted
AP's
calc AB 5
physics C: N/m 4
english language 4
and i'm taking BC, stat, and spanish next year</p>

<p>extracurriculars are not my strong spot at all</p>

<p>i'm wondering what colleges i HAVE A CHANCE AT with at least decently respected math programs</p>

<p>i've been mainly looking in california and the boston area, as each interests me.. also florida, new york, and chicago. not to rule out anything else, but those are the first places i think of that i would happily go.</p>

<p>thanks so much</p>

<p>Princeton or UChicago have great math programs.</p>

<p>NYU might be the type of school you have a chance at.</p>

<p>thanks guys</p>

<p>(though princeton/u of chicago are the type of schools i'm pretty sure are out of my league)</p>

<p>Colorado School of Mines
Mathematical</a> & Computer Sciences at The Colorado School of Mines</p>

<p>Some to possiby look at are Wisconsin, Maryland, Illinois, Michigan, Brandeis, Minnesota, Bucknell and St. Olaf.</p>

<p>Gourman Report ranking for undergrad math:
Princeton
UC Berkeley
Harvard
MIT
U Chicago
Stanford
NYU
Yale
Wisconsin Madison
Columbia
Michigan Ann Arbor
Brown
Cornell
UCLA
Illinois Urbana Champaign
Caltech
Minnesota
U Penn
Notre Dame
Georgia Tech
U washington
Purdue WL
Rutgers NB
Indiana U Bloomington
U Maryland College Park
Rice
UC San Diego
Northwestern
Texas Austin
carnegie Mellon
Johns Hopkins
Washington U St Louis
Ohio State
SUNY Stony Brook
Penn State
UVA
RPI
Illinois Chicago
U Colorado Boulder
U Kentucky
UNC Chapel Hill
Dartmouth
U Rochester
U Utah
SUNY Buffalo
Tulane
USC
UC Santa Barbara
U Massachusetts AMherst
U Oregon
Duke
Louisiana State Baton Rouge
U Arizona
case Western
Michigan State
U Pittsburgh
Brandeis
US Air Force Academy</p>

<p>I think you should consider posting this every time you post that ranking:</p>

<p>The Gourman Report is Dr. Jack Gourman's ranking of undergraduate programs and professional programs in American and International Universities. It has been criticized for not disclosing criteria or ranking methods,[1][2] as well as for reporting statistically impossible data, such as no ties among schools, narrow gaps in scores with no variation in gap widths, and ranks of nonexistent departments.[3] The Princeton Review, a for-profit publisher of achievement tests and college guidebooks, publishes the Gourman Report.[1]</p>

<p>Gourman is a professor of political science, by the way, not math.</p>

<p>People are so quick to accept without question these false beliefs (myths) about the Gourman Report but are skeptical about the Gourman rankings. Yet, when asked to show how a school is ranked incorrectly, they find it hard to substantiate any errors in the ranking.</p>

<p>Ties are possible in the Gourman Report and I have seen at least one.</p>

<p>Gourman had a staff dedicated to formulating the rankings. The rankings were not his alone.</p>

<p>Here is a brief bio about Gourman:
Dr. Jack Gourman, former professor of political science and CEO at California State University, has five earned degrees. </p>

<p>Dr. Gourman was educated at the University of Notre Dame, UCLA, and the University of Paris-Sorbonne, where he received his PH.D. Degree.</p>

<p>Dr. Gourman has been preparing assessments for over 30 years and has authored numerous books and monographs. He is the leading international authority in the field of higher education assessment and intercollegiate athletics.</p>

<p>Dr. Gourman is a consultant to several corporations, government agencies (Federal, State, and Local), colleges, and universities.</p>

<p>Dr. Gourman emphases that, “Today’s schools are in a constant state of flux from the forces of budget constraints and technological advances. What would have been a student’s first choice just a few years ago may not be applicable today. A top rating in one curriculum does not guarantee a top rating in another.”</p>

<p>The Gourman Report, authored by Dr. Gourman, is the most up-to-date report of its kind. Dr. Gourman feels that education and its cost are too important not to know what schools are currently providing. </p>

<p>National Education Standards, for which Dr. Gourman serves as the Director of Research, is an organization whose prime function is the evaluation of the effectiveness of higher education in the United States and throughout the world.</p>

<p>Here is the Gourman method that was published in his book.</p>

<p>INTRODUCTION</p>

<p>Since 1967, The Gourman Report has made an intensive effort to determine what
constitutes academic excellence or quality in American colleges and .universities.
The result of that research and study is found within this book. </p>

<p>The Gourman Report is the only qualitative guide to institutions of higher education
that assigns a precise, numerical score to each school and program. This score is
derived from a comprehensive assessment of each program's strengths and
shortcomings. This method makes it simple to examine the effectiveness of a given
educational program, or compare one program to another. </p>

<p>These deceptively simple numerical ratings take into account a wide variety of
empirical data. The Gourman Report is not a popularity contest or an opinion poll,
but an objective evaluation of complex information drawn from the public record,
private research foundations, and universities themselves. Many of the resources
employed in this research, while public, are not easily accessible. Individual
researchers attempting to collect this data in order to compare institutions or
programs would face a daunting task. </p>

<p>This book is intended for use by: </p>

<p>• Young people and parents wishing to make informed choices
about higher education.
• Educators and administrators interested in an independent
evaluation of their programs .. </p>

<p>• Prospective employers who wish to assess the educational
qualifications of college graduates.
• Schools wishing to improve undergraduate programs
• Foundations involved in funding colleges and universities.
• Individuals interested in identifying fraudulent or inferior
institutions ..
• Citizens concerned about the quality of today's higher education.
For all of these researchers, the breadth and convenience of the data in The
Gourman Report can greatly facilitate the study of higher education. </p>

<p>Method of Evaluation </p>

<p>Much of the material used in compiling The Gourman Report is internal-drawn
from educators and administrators at the schools themselves. These individuals are
permitted to evaluate only their own programs-as they know them from daily
experience-and not the programs of other institutions. Unsolicited appraisals are </p>

<p>occasionally considered (and weighed accordingly), but the bulk 'of our
contributions come from people chosen for their academic qualifications, their
published works, and their interest in improving the quality of higher education. It
attests to the dedication of these individuals (and also to the serious problems in
higher education today) that over 90% of our requests for contributions are met
with a positive response. </p>

<p>In addition, The Gourman Report draws on many external resources which are a
matter of record, such as funding for public universities as authorized by legislative
bodies, required filings by schools to meet standards of non-discrimination, and
material provided by the institutions (and independently verified) about faculty
makeup and experience, fields of study offered, and physical plant. </p>

<p>Finally, The Gourman Report draws upon the findings of individuals, associations </p>

<p>and agencies whose business it is to make accurate projections of the success that </p>

<p>will be enjoyed by graduates from given institutions and disciplines. While the </p>

<p>methods employed by these resources are proprietary, their findings have </p>

<p>consistently been validated by experience, and they are an important part .of our </p>

<p>research. </p>

<p>The Gourman Report's rating of educational institutions is analogous to the grading
of a college essay examination. What may appear to be a subjective process is in
fact a patient sifting of empiricar data by analysts who understand both the "subject
matter" (the fields of study under evaluation), and the "students" (the colleges and
universities themselves). The fact that there are virtually no "tie" scores indicates
the accuracy and effectiveness of this methodology. So does the consistent
affirmation of the ratings in The Gourman Report by readers who are in a position
to evaluate certain programs themselves. </p>

<p>The following criteria are taken into consideration in the evaluation of each
educational program and institution. It should be noted that, because disciplines
vary in their educational methodology, the significance given each criterion will vary
from the rating of one discipline to the next; however, our evaluation is consistent
for all schools listed within each field of study. </p>

<ol>
<li>Auspices, control and organization of the institution; </li>
<li>Number of educational programs offered and degrees conferred
(with additional attention to "sub-fields" available to students
within a particular discipline);</li>
<li>Age (experience level) of the institution and of the individual
discipline or program and division;</li>
<li>Faculty, including qualifications, experience, intellectual interests,
attainments, and professional productivity (including research);</li>
<li><p>Students, including quality of scholastic work and records of
graduates both in graduate study and in practice;
• The Goullnan Report-Undergraduate </p></li>
<li><p>Basis of and requirements for admission of students (overall and
by individual discipline) </p></li>
<li><p>Number of students enrolled (overall and for each discipline); </p></li>
<li><p>Curriculum and curricular content of the program or discipline
and division;</p></li>
<li><p>Standards and quality of instruction (including teaching loads); </p></li>
<li><p>Quality of administration, including attitudes and policy toward
teaching, research and scholarly production in each discipline,
and administration research;</p></li>
<li><p>Quality and availability of non-departmental areas such as
counseling and career placement services;</p></li>
<li><p>Quality of physical plant devoted to undergraduate, graduate and
professional levels; </p></li>
<li><p>Finances, including budgets, investments, expenditures and
sources of income for both public and private institutions;</p></li>
<li><p>Library, including number of volumes, appropriateness of
materials to individual disciplines, and accessibility of materials;</p></li>
<li><p>Computer facility sufficient to support current research activities
for both faculty and students;</p></li>
<li><p>Sufficient funding for research equipment and infrastructure; </p></li>
<li><p>Number of teaching and research assistantships; </p></li>
<li><p>Academic-athletic balance.
ipecific information about the data used to rank institutions and programs is
Ivailable in Appendix A and Appendix B.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>One more thing...
The accusation that non-existent programs receive a ranking is false. The rankings are based on the subject matter covered in a particular major. Different schools give different names to their majors and their name may not match the name used in the Gourman Report. The Gourman Report lists alternative names for majors in footnotes at the bottom of the pages.</p>

<p>It is not suprprising that tied ranks are rare because about 20-40 schools are ranked on a thousand-point scale. The chances of a tie are slim.</p>

<p>The criticisms in post #8 were first made by a librarian in some library journal and have been mindlessly perpetuated like an "urban myth".</p>

<p>Let's start with the premise that a ranking is entirely useless without knowing the criteria, how the criteria are judged, and the relative weighting of each criteria. </p>

<p>Disagree yet?</p>

<p>Assuming that all that information is disclosed, the ranking may still be worthless if the criteria are judged to be irrelevant or contrary to what someone is looking for in a school. </p>

<p>Good?</p>

<p>A final premise: A ranking may still be of questionable worth on account of methodological errors. In this category, I'd include shoddy statistical analysis and plain old being out of date. </p>

<p>Yeah?</p>

<p>Conclusion: When someone asks a question in the form of "What's the best college for _______?" it isn't very helpful to give a ranking without giving AT THE VERY MINIMUM information pertaining to everything I've listed above: criteria, how criteria are judged, relative weighting of criteria, and perhaps the date the information was taken (after all, today's schools are in a state of constant flux ;)). </p>

<p>I could go on to criticize the criteria of the Gourman Report individually, but that's beside the point; it may be that the quality of a school's physical plant IS important to the educational experience.</p>

<p>Sorry but any ranking that puts UCB ahead of Harvard for undergrad math is seriously flawed. And before you ask, no I don't have an axe to grind. I'm a math major at Princeton, which is number one on Gourman's list.</p>

<p>Weasle8488-
US News graduate school rankings has Harvard and Berkeley tied at 2nd.
"Seriously flawed"...hahaha</p>

<p>Surely you agree that graduate rankings don't present the entire picture. Otherwise you wouldn't be such a strong advocate of the Gourman rankings in the first place.</p>

<p>I believe the Gourman rankings are another set of data to consider and I don't think they are any more flawed than other rankings. However, I do find it cheesy to quote a contrary view with footnotes and not attribute the quote and show the footnotes. Just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>The quote came from [url=<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gourman_Report%5DWikipedia%5B/url"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gourman_Report]Wikipedia[/url&lt;/a&gt;], where you can find the footnotes.</p>

<p>The Gourman Report rankings are valid. They largely agree with US News rankings in engineering and business and other rankings. They mostly agree with those of knowledgeable posters on CC. The rankings are basically correct. As long as the results are correct it isn't necessary to know the specifics about the data or the method</p>

<p>The real problem is that universities don't like to be held accountable. They would rather promote a vague image based on marketing techniques and anecdotes. Hard data and comparisons make them squirm. They would rather keep the public in the dark.</p>

<p>When something comes along that helps consumers of higher education make an informed decision, they fight it.</p>

<p>Rankings like the Gourman Report and US News are the best things to come along for consumers of higher education since universities stopped burning heretics at the stake. (ok, I don't really know if they burned heretics)</p>

<p>
[quote]
As long as the results are correct it isn't necessary to know the specifics about the data or the method.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What do you mean when you say that a set of rankings is valid? When it is consistent with other rankings? Circular reasoning at its finest.</p>

<p>Or are they valid because they agree with the opinions of CC posters? So much for the importance of hard data.</p>

<p>If you can't give a concrete defense of the methodology, then the Gourman rankings have no additional authority beyond that of the rankings and opinions with which they correlate.</p>

<p>Where's Williams on the list? For undergrad I thought it was supposed to be one of the best for math? Or is this a list of universities only?</p>