Colleges for Musical Theater Major - Part 30

<p>Lexismom,</p>

<p>I can't be real specific but my daughter has a couple of friends who are in Cap21 who went to the summer program. I didn't ask whether it was the Tisch one or the strictly Cap21 program.</p>

<p>I specifically asked if many got into Cap and they said 1/4 of the class was accepted.
So I am assuming that it helps. Two of my daughters 3 friends who are in Cap 21 went to the summer program.</p>

<p>Hope this helps. I am going to see my daughter this weekend so if you have any more questions I can ask the kids when I see them.</p>

<p>The one thing that my daughter has noticed is that these kids all seem to have a lot of training. And they all love the program!</p>

<p>Thanks for the info on UM. My daughter had looked at the program, but decided not to pursue because of size and the lack of performance opportunities as a freshman. Others have expressed the opinion that the lack of performance opportunities shouldn't be a deciding factor. After reading your info, I think D may the right decision for her. "Are they thrilled to have to work so intensively on the "technical" aspects of their profession, i.e., learning to play piano so they can work on/learn music on their own, studying music theory so that they are strong, literate musicians as well as MT performers, learning the techniques of ballet that underpin most of the other dance forms they need to know? -- not happy every day." This comes to the crux of the matter for her. She plays piano and guitar, has been studying music theory privately, has taken ballet since she was 5, and has been a "techie" as well as an actor since jr. high. I bring this up only because when I mentioned the lack of performance opportunities as being a criteria, I was taken to task. But based on the information, it sounds as if she has made a reasonable choice.</p>

<p>Fosselover,
I think you will find that many MT programs are designed for freshmen to be immersed in the "work" of MT, before they are given opportunitities to perform. First semester freshmen should be doing the tech, music theory, and other things required for them to continue to hone their craft. It may not be realistic to limit one's options to only those schools that allow performing during the first year. Most of the students who begin as freshmen at competitive MT programs come into them with years of training in various disciplines, as well as a great deal of performance experience. It is often in their best interest to allow them to find their way in this new university environment, and understand that performing on stage is not what an MT major is all about.</p>

<p>I, too, am interested in people addressing the second part of newmtmom's post regarding "non-ivy" schools and their programs. (I am copying and pasting the second part of her post here: '2) People seem pretty familiar with the "ivies"--who, by and large, have very small programs except for a couple--who only have small programs. When I look at the others on the list of schools with MT programs, they too, are quite small and generally, require auditions. So, is it any easier to get into those? Are they truly worse or is it just a question of reputation and popularity? For example, OCU has been talked about quite a bit and seems quite popular. But is it truly better than other programs or is it only that it has an alum who is very big on Broadway? (This is not to put down OCU, I'm just trying to understand how to judge programs. There doesn't seem that much difference in course requirements.)' Can anyone offer some insight??</p>

<p>Fosselover,</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the performance prohibition is only first term freshman year. They all MUST audition for all departmental productions beginning second semester. In fact, my D may have to return to school early from Winter Break (which is short enough as it is) because auditions for the Spring musical, City of Angels, will probably take place before school goes back into session.</p>

<p>Look, I'm not trying to convince you to make your D apply to UM. I don't get paid a fee if I get people to go to there. They seem to be doing just fine without me shilling for them. But may I suggest that if your daughter thinks she knows all there is to know about these "technical aspects" of her work, she is going to have trouble with any respectable college MT program she goes to. While my D had next to no meaningful paino training before going to UM, she has had several years of music theory, has also danced since she was five and has worked tech on shows. I know you feel that you have been "taken to task" about this issue but I think we're all just trying to help you help your D understand what an intense BFA training program is going to focus on and it's not all about the end result of being on stage. IT'S ABOUT THE WORK!! If she thinks she's done all the work then I think you're crazy to spend the money to send her to school so she can perform. Tell her to take her skills out on the open market and get paid instead.</p>

<p>Everyone,</p>

<p>I forgot to mention the other interesting opportunity I learned about this weekend. Apparently UM has lots of great study abroad opportunities.But my D told me that the MT's and Theater kids can apply to spend a semster or two at RADA their junior year. As my D is well aware that acting is the area in which she has the least formal training, (not to mention that she'd love to live in London for a few months....) she is very excited about this possibility and hopes to pursue it for the Fall of her Junior year.......even if it means missing a performing opportunity.......</p>

<p>To those to whom I owe an email, I'm hoping to get to them tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest - thanks for your patience!!</p>

<p>theatermom, sounds like you had a wonderful weekend. It also sounds like your D is doing wonderfully and is adjusting well and loving UM and its program. It sounds very similar, in many respects, to how things work at Tisch for freshmen. </p>

<p>fosselover, I have to completely agree with monkey here. Although all kids in these programs love to perform and want to be onstage all the time, there is much for them to learn and focus on in freshman year which does not specifically link to being onstage in front of an audience. As monkey says, most of these kids at the competitive programs, have many years of experience and training in various aspects of theatre. It's rare for someone to get into one of these programs without this vast amount of experience. Even with this experience, however, these kids have so much to learn. As I've said before, it's not as though they're not performing at all. Most of these top programs have weekly in class scene study which requires casting, rehearsal, staging, etc. Or they're working on student run/driven one acts, etc. or possibly even performing in films by students in the film dept. My D took two years of tech theatre classes at her arts h/s. She was adept at working lights and sound, doing blocking, stage managing, costuming, choreography, etc. before she started at Tisch. This didn't mean, however, that she had learned everything there was to learn. Far from it. All freshmen are have required tech duty both semesters on Tisch productions. This is not only useful, but essential for their futures. Most kids continue with their music training outside class because most successful MT actors write and perform and accompany their own music in addition to doing shows. Even with her years of performing, voice and piano and dance training since she was a little girl, my D is still learning in every class she's taking. The actual performance of a mainstage production is the end piece of all this learning. It's not something that exists in a vacuum from everything else that goes into the finished product. IMO, lack of mainstage performance opportunities for freshmen, should not be something which precludes someone from auditioning for a program. As monkey said, most of the top programs are the ones who chose to follow that path of training and you'll be missing out on some wonderful schools if you automatically exclude them based on that criterion.</p>

<p>Theatermom, I am glad you posted a review of your trip and of Chorus Line at UM. My daughter has asked if I could print it out for her to read and I will. My D's best friend just got invited to audition as her application was in before Sept. 15. I hope my D is as lucky. </p>

<p>Kiri, anything your daughter shares about Cap21 (college, not summer) program is most appreciated as well, considering it is also one of my D's top choices. While she has many friends in the program with whom she has spoken (diff. years), it is always great to get more perspectives, plus some from people you do not know otherwise. </p>

<p>Fosselover, </p>

<p>I can appreciate what you are saying. But I also think you may not realize that a majority of kids accepted to such selective intensive MT programs have also had a background similar to your D. For instance, you mention dance since age five, same here, plus same among several of her friends who are also applying or who currently attend. Studying piano since age seven intensively, as well as plays guitar, check. Numerous theatrical productions (my daughter, for instance, has done over 40), check. I do not say this to talk about my own child but to point out that my daughter is NOT unusual in this regard among her theater friends who are applying and who have been immersed in this field their whole lives, not just at school, and who have deep seated passions to live and breathe musical theater. My D is not normally happy not being in a show. She is ALWAYS working on a show. I can tell you that that is also true of her peers who are applicants to these programs. While there very well will be applicants who have not had your D's background, there still will be many who have and who want the level of challenge and the opportunities to perform in college. In fact, if admitted, they will be among a group of peers where they may not stand out ,where each kid has been leads many times over, and so on and so forth. If your child has ever attended a summer intensive for instance, the level of talent rises beyond what you see in your own local area, where it is easier to stand out. </p>

<p>Yes, it would be hard to not get into a big show the first semester of freshman year such as the policy at UM but it is just one semester and they are still immersed in theater. I imagine after that, if not in a mainstage show, there are many other productions going on that they can be a part of. There are also student run musicals. </p>

<p>Yes, naturally you want to find the best FIT for your child and this or some other program may not be the one for her. I applaud you for trying to find the ones that appeal the most to her. But if you do knock out programs where you feel that they do not perform the very first semester, you may be knocking out some of the most regarded programs out there. Since your daughter sounds very experienced and very talented, she may WANT to be in a program where the level of talent of her fellow peers, as well as their passion for the field, is very high like hers is. So, I might not overlook that factor for a girl like her. Her background sounds well suited to a very selective program where there indeed WILL be kids just like her with a similar amount of training. </p>

<p>I know that the experiential background that you mention your D has, stands out in your local area, as I could say of my own kid who everyone local knows due to her background as well. But if you take all the kids who are standouts in their local communities and put them in one place, what you get is a class such as the ones in these selective MT BFA programs. There ARE kids like them in the country, just not all in one place in high school or community. I have seen this first hand in my D's summer program the past seven years. And actually, the most talented kids from that program have all gone on to the top MT BFA college programs now, and so I have seen such a grouping of kids but just not in my local community. Just sharing my perspective through my own experiences. </p>

<p>Which programs thus far appeal to your daughter? I would love to learn more as she is obviously a very talented young lady and it is interesting to learn what programs have the sort of elements that someone like her wants, as we, too, are constantly trying to learn more about each college's program from those in the know. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>PS, I forgot to add that when my D met with an admissions person in the school at UM, she was told that someone with her piano background would likely place out of the basic piano requirements but could choose to study privately with someone in the dept. on piano (and in fact, she has a soph friend there doing that now who had a strong piano background like she does). She actually found this to be very appealing because many programs do not focus at all on music theory or piano and she has studied music her whole life and cares about that a lot. Likewise, the admissions officer told my D that someone with years of dance training would go through placement auditions to get into the right level class, not the same level ballet as kids who have never danced, for example. My D spoke to kids currently in the program and spoke to several who had danced their entire lives who are choosing to take additional dance electives as there is a great dance major program as well at UM. Thought I would share what I found out on that visit, though do not mean to talk your D into it but just to tell ya the facts on those things.</p>

<p>Lexismom -</p>

<p>The summer CAP 21 program did not specifically prepare my D for the audition circuit. As a matter of fact - the Vocal technique teacher asked them all what type of song they liked to sing -and gave them the opposite! (she likes to belt - she was given a lyrical soprano song)
And - in Acting class - they worked on scenes, not monologues.
I understand that the CMU summer program specifically addresses auditions. We are looking at that program for next summer.</p>

<p>Jane</p>

<p>This is my first time posting in this new format; I sure hope I don't mess it up. The question of whether freshmen can perform or not is something I just discussed with my D the other day. Her first reaction was that she thought performing freshman year is important and has a good "pedagogical" basis. After we talked it over for a while, she understood why a school might not want freshmen to perform--or at least their first semester. She realized it's not a make-or-break criterion for her. Ultimately, our main thoughts are balancing the other concern most recently posted and seconded--that there are so few students taken and how good are the non-ivies? We've put a lot of time into this one, too. Each program has to be evaluated in detail to try to figure out if it sounds like a good program. Then we are trying to keep in mind, what if she doesn't get into an "Ivy" in MT? Is it better to try to have some non-Ivies as backup? Some actualy safeties--or close to it? Or would it be better to major in acting at a very good program, instead of in MT at a program where the quality of the teaching and experience is not at her level of challenge? In dance? In vocal performance? In a combination of these of some sort? What percentage of her auditions should be non-MT, if she chooses to let her "reaches" be non-MT? This is starting to turn into some bizarre gambling thing where we don't have enough information to understand the probability and statistics of the cards.</p>

<p>Perhaps my post was misunderstood. My D is not unique, I read about students here are the time that have much more extensive expereince than she. In fact, because of the information gained about the "competion" she realizes that gaining entrance into on of the "top" programs is highly unlikely. We both know she has much to learn in every aspect of MT, including performance. Performance is another skill to be learned. It sounds like most of the incoming students have had lots of performance opportunities outside the HS experience. She has in dance, but hasn't in MT. So she wants to get on stage as often as possible and as early as possible to gain experience in performance. So much is learned in the process of putting together a show, even if you are in the ensemble. It is just another "classroom".
She will apply to schools that offer her this classroom as well as other training. In addition she wants strong LA. So maybe the "top" programs aren't for her and she will find her niche in a "smaller pond" and develop her craft. She has applied to a mix of schools, including programs at Baldwin-Wallace, Millikin, and Otterbein that do offer early performance opportunities. She has also applied to Illinois Wesleyan, Elon, and East Carolina University that offer BFA programs in MT. Then she has applied to Ohio Wesleyan, Denison, and Muhlenberg where she would have an opportunity to build her own interdepartmental degree.
Big schools and conservatory programs aren't what she wants.<br>
soozievt--" My D is not normally happy not being in a show. She is ALWAYS working on a show." I guess this is part of what I don't understand. If you child is ALWAYS working on a show and is happy doing so, why would you elect to stop. Why is it so important for a student to forgo that happiness?
monkey--"that performing on stage is not what an MT major is all about." You are right, performing is not what being an MT major is all about, but isn't performing why you major in MT?
theatermom--In my original post, I noted that the size of UM is the primary reason she opted not to apply to UM. UM sounds like a great program and she gave it considerable consideration since the performance limitation was for a single semester. My response was based on "Are they thrilled to have to work so intensively on the "technical" aspects of their profession, i.e., learning to play piano so they can work on/learn music on their own, studying music theory so that they are strong, literate musicians as well as MT performers, learning the techniques of ballet that underpin most of the other dance forms they need to know? -- not happy every day." Again with all of the challenges facing a freshman, why enter a situation that you know from the outset will not make you happy.
alwaysamom--"The actual performance of a mainstage production is the end piece of all this learning. It's not something that exists in a vacuum from everything else that goes into the finished product." The act of creating the "finished product" is applying what one is learning in the classroom. It is an opportunity to practice what one is learning.
I'm not sure why I'm being so defensive of her decision, after all it is her decision. My "mother bear" instincts just come out full force when defending my D.
Each student and parent chooses the options that they "think" are best. Sometimes the decisions are right, sometimes they are wrong. But to truly succeed, one must learn how to fail.
Thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences and your wisdom.</p>

<p>Fosselover,</p>

<p>I don't think you are being overly defensive at all. I think you are doing your best to help your daughter find the program that will be the best fit for her. My D is not unhappy at UM - quite the opposite. Perhaps I should have been clearer. Would she be happier being cast as the lead in every show she auditions for? Maybe in the short term. But she also knows that just working on stage will NOT help her achieve her ultimate goal which is to be the best performer SHE can be. Yes, working a show is one way to use the techniques you work on in class, but it doesn't always provide the opportunity to stretch, to take the risks that help you get to the next level, that help you explore your potential, not just show off what you have now. Most of that work takes place in the classroom. In truth, school productions may allow you more latitude to take risks than productions in the real world. I had an acting professor in college who I remember for one statement he made in a year of classes. He yelled at us for NOT taking risks in class. He asked if we understood the true value of educational theater was that it might be the only time in our professional lives when we were allowed, even encouraged to "come on", as he put it, "strong and wrong." I never forgot that. He told us in the professional world, it was the rare opportunity in which we would not be hired to play a role in the one way that the director saw it. Educational theater is freedom. It's a magical time not to be discounted or wasted.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the information. Sounds like you made the right choices. Perhaps because D has done only school productions, she has always had the opportunity to grow and take risks. Last year when HS did Midsummer she had a non-speaking role that allowed her to learn how to use facial expressions and movement to act without saying a word or making a sound. This year she has the lead.
Sounds as if you had a great acting professor. Risk taking doesn't come naturally to everyone (my S does, D is learning) and isn't often encouraged.</p>

<p>Mtmommy...
I'll take a stab at some of your questions...to quote you...</p>

<p>"Then we are trying to keep in mind, what if she doesn't get into an "Ivy" in MT? Is it better to try to have some non-Ivies as backup? Some actualy safeties--or close to it? Or would it be better to major in acting at a very good program, instead of in MT at a program where the quality of the teaching and experience is not at her level of challenge? In dance? In vocal performance? In a combination of these of some sort? What percentage of her auditions should be non-MT, if she chooses to let her "reaches" be non-MT?"</p>

<p>In our case, we too have evaluated the possibility of not getting accepted to the "dream schools" of MT. My D may audition for 8-10 schools and NOT get accepted anywhere tho we have chosen schools that we think are in a range of reach-match-safety (as close as you can get anyway with MT!)....but she decided that rather than apply to schools which do not have the calibre of program that she desires, she will apply as Vocal Performance at several schools as her "back-up" plan. The schools she has chosen to apply in VP are ones that are already on her MT list, and ones whose VP major closely parallels the MT major...in fact, so much so that it may not matter much whether she is VP or MT...she'll essentially do the same coursework. For my D, her voice is her best of the three "triple threat" categories. While she has training in all three, her voice is her gift. So she chose VP as her backup plan. But she will tell you, loud and clear....."I don't WANT to be a VP major...I want MT." But this is our backup plan. That's how we have chosen to deal with the dilemma of "ivy" vs "non-ivy" schools.</p>

<p>My D is a sophomore now at CCM and continues to love the program. I just wanted to address the issue of freshmen performing. Although freshmen are generally not cast for "roles" in shows they may be cast in the ensemble. Also, freshmen do get to fulfill their "stage needs" by rehearsing for (3 credit hours) and then performing freshman showcase in May. I imagine this is similar to other schools with a freshman showcase. And now, as a sophomore, my D is excited and looking forward to performing in the mainstage production of Brigadoon in November - well worth the wait!!!</p>

<p>A post note - I'm not aware of a policy of not casting freshmen in roles in shows at CCM as may be the case in some schools. I just know they didn't cast any roles last year to freshman but did cast them in ensemble....</p>

<p>Today I got accepted into Wichits State Univerity, into the performing arts college. Although it's only my safety, it's nice to know that just in case it doesn't work out, i still have a place to go!</p>

<p>mtfan: Congratulations! Hopefully many more offers are in your future!</p>

<p>I can only hope! Im just in such a good mood right now!</p>

<p>Re: Dress at auditions</p>

<p>Today I bought these - <a href="http://www.oldnavy.com/assets/product/big/ona262769-00b.jpg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oldnavy.com/assets/product/big/ona262769-00b.jpg&lt;/a> - I plan on wearing them with some flats and a nice solid color top. They're pretty comfortable and I thought they were enough in between comfort/casual and dressy they'd be appropriate. What do you think?</p>

<p>FYI,
I've checked the websites of a few schools and this is what I've gathered about freshman performance opportunities.
University of Hartford-freshman can audition for all productions
FSU--required to audition
Roosevelt University-1st semester Freshman Showcase, 2nd semester can audition
Boston Conservatory--Freshman revue
Emerson College--freshman can audition
University of Michigan--required after lst semester
Webster University--freshman cannot audition
Syracuse University--freshman cannot audition
Ithaca College--freshman cannot audition
Elon University--freshman can audition
Baldwin-Wallace College--freshman can audition
Otterbein--freshman can audition
University of Cincinnati--freshman can audition
Oklahoma City University--freshman can audition</p>

<p>I may be mistaken, this is the information available on the website. If anyone else has additional information, I would appreciate it. While my D has started applications, we can always add more if it makes sense (OH MY! WHAT AM I SAYING).</p>