Colleges for Musical Theater Major - Part 37

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Doctorjohn and any others who may have insight on this one:</p>

<p>Like Danielle, my daughter has a bit of a sticky situation. I would love to print out responses and show them to my D's guidance counselors. </p>

<p>Because of college visits and auditions, D missed 5 days of school last term. She came down with pneumonia during one trip, and missed 5 additional days. These were the only days she missed all year. Yesterday, report cards came out, and her CHORUS TEACHER lowered her grades. She gave her a "C" in select choir because she missed two "performances" which were scheduled AFTER D's auditions were scheduled. D had told the teacher about auditions in advance. (The teacher arranges last-minute performances at nursing homes, etc. during school hours and expects the kids to drop everything, including AP and honors classes and tests to make these performances-D stayed awake many nights till 2 or 3 so that she could study to take an AP test that she would miss because of a performance scheduled last-min.) The teacher also gave her a "B" in Concert choir, even though she missed no performances. (I spoke to the teacher and asked if D's preparation and performances were up to par. She said that D's work and knowledge of the music were not the issue, since she missed classes she gets her grade lowered even if she is the strongest soprano (teacher's words, not mine), and she missed for auditions.)</p>

<p>The first problem-D will be auditioning more this term. She will miss 3 days, probably 4 with the Chicago unifieds and at least 4 more because of auditions and long drives. She doesn't want to drop her choral classes but she doesnt want a low GPA, as these courses meet every day and count the same in the GPA as academic subjects. She might even make a "D" depending on the teachers mood. (Nothing is ever consistent-she says one thing and does another.) To make matters worse, she has the same teacher for PIANO this term. (3 classes total!) If she stays enrolled because she loves to sing and is learning to play piano, and receives low grades, how do you think colleges would look at this? And how and when would she even be given the chance to explain? I know I've heard that only the audition matters in most cases, but I would think that bad grades in music classes would throw up some red flags. </p>

<p>Second problem-D listed this teacher on several applications that asked for name of school music teacher. (At the time she was the only one.) Do colleges speak to music teachers? She has other folks listed for references, and could provide many more positive ones, as this is the only person with whom she has ever had a negative situation. I worry that if D withdraws from her classes, she will give her an exaggerated negative report if contacted. (Teacher depends on D especially in the select choir of 16 and the quartet. D is the only one that sings the highest notes in certain places and they will be attending several judged events this term and have been working on this music all year.)</p>

<p>Final problem-As if the first two werent enough. When filling out apps. back in November, D listed a voice teacher that dropped her newest students due to personal problems (divorce). So on a few apps, both the music and voice teacher's names are a problem. (Don't want them to talk to the music teacher, and voice teacher is no longer current and has moved.) I know if I were the admissions people I would be thinking what is the problem with this kid? When, if ever,would it be appropriate to mention this, and how? The situation makes D very nervous, and she has told me that she will die if the subject comes up in an audition as she has never had a poor relationship with a teacher, and knows it can reflect very negatively. She will be auditioning for most of these schools at the Chicago Unifieds and fears that someone may look down and make a reference to one of these people. Help!?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for anyone who has taken their precious time to read this, and respond.</p>

<p>DizzyDani88- Maybe the director truly understands, and was just having a bad day? (I've personally had that situation before, so from experience I'd make sure.) If not, I'd handwrite a letter explaining your exact thoughts as you wrote them here, from the heart. I personally think sometimes a nice letter followed by a personal call can smooth things over more effectively, as you have a chance to say everything and work on wording it perfectly.</p>

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<p>mama02girlz:</p>

<p>I can only speak for us on this one, but I don't think it's as much of a problem as your daughter fears. First of all, I don't see transcripts, so there would be no reason for me to ask about a grade in choir. Nor do I have time to call teachers and check references. And I don't ask about voice teachers, except on occasion to ask what repertoire the student is studying. </p>

<p>If your d gets obsessed with this, she may well walk into auditions thinking about what she'll say if asked about this problem, instead of focussing on her songs and monologues. </p>

<p>That is not to say that you should ignore the issue. Grades are important in the admissions process, and attendance is a valid factor in grading. Does the music teacher know your d is going to Unifieds? Do the rest of her teachers? </p>

<p>This is a topic worth discussing. I hear often that schools only allow students one or two days for college visits. That's one of the reasons we schedule auditions for weekends. But I imagine students miss much more than one or two days in order to do college visits and auditions, and I can easily imagine that high schools are not happy about this. So how have you dealt with this, moms and dads?</p>

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<p>mama02girlz :
That chorus/music teacher is on a huge power trip! There's one of those in every school. I think you should schedule a meeting between you, your daughter and the guidance counselor. This way, you have an impartial opinion and the chorus teacher will lose her power base. Is there a teacher or principal in charge or the arts deptarment? I think you might have grounds to complain to that person. A grade is a grade and the GPA does have some weight.</p>

<p>As far as a college wanting to speak to either the chorus or voice teacher--that is likely never to happen. So tell your daughter not to worry.</p>

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<p>Auditions and attendance</p>

<p>D's school allows a minimum of days off for college visits...a couple 2nd semester/junior year...and maybe 4 for senior year. Clearly that's not enough for all the visits and auditions necessary for a MT auditioner. We started visiting schools summer before junior year...saw 3 schools that summer. Then we visited 5 additional schools during junior year. She probably missed one or two days as we scheduled these visits on long weekends or spring break or weekends. Some of these days came during first semester...when no missed days are "allowed" for college visits...but we didn't have a problem from the school. We did have one additional school to visit this past fall (senior year) and she missed one day. I have always told the school when she was on a college visit even though we might have been past the number of days allowed. We have never gotten any "grief" from them. We have been lucky this year with audition scheduling. The first audition last fall came when there was a day off school and even though we had to fly to the audition, no school was missed. We've had two other auditions this month....neither required a missed day as one was during exam week and she was able to reschedule her exams so that she didn't need to be at school....the other was supposed to be a partial day off for the audition...but we had a snow day. We've been very fortunate. D was lucky enough to get accepted by the first school she auditioned for in the fall so we took three "lesser" schools off the audition list. Those would have required her to miss several days. We have two more to go. I don't think she'll have to miss at all to go to those auditions....they're nearby. If she gets any more acceptances, she may do some revisits before she makes a decision. That will require her to miss but I'm doubtful we'll have a problem. </p>

<p>Sorry that was so long...I do believe if you start the visit process early enough you can guard against having to be gone too long. D may not have been thrilled that we used her spring break to travel to schools, but it WAS a trip to schools in Florida so that wasn't so awful! But by using her break time, she didn't have to miss school. We've always been upfront with teachers and the school about what D is doing...and they're well aware of her goals as she is able to share her talent frequently at her school....we have not encountered any problems. One last note....this is NOT a performing arts high school.</p>

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<p>Mama02girlz,
Geez, Louise! How lame is that? Sounds like the old letter over the spirit of the rule thing. I'd drop that teacher and her classes like a hot iron and encourage others to do the same if I couldn't get an administrator to intervene. She can't schedule last minute performances without students to sing in them!</p>

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<p>Mama02girlz,</p>

<p>I agree with freelance. I would first talk to the teacher and then if she does not relent I would try to find an administrator in the school that would be sympathetic to your cause. If that doesn't work, I would have your daughter drop the courses. And I would make that perfectly clear to the teacher.</p>

<p>My daughter was very lucky, even though our school district is very strict that students miss no more than 10 days for any reason, we have a wonderful principal that supports the arts and he convinced the superintendent to approve the absences. My daughter was able to miss two weeks of class during Dec of her junior year and two weeks of class at the end of her junior year to do shows at a local professional theater. The teachers were not happy, and it did take a lot of communication on everyone's part but it's amazing what can be done if you get the support of the "ones in charge".</p>

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<p>Mama02girlz,</p>

<p>This sounds very similar to my d's situation in honors vocal class last semester. She missed a couple of "last minute" scheduled performances due to both community theatre performances and auditions. I don't know if you can, at this point, do anything about last semester's grades, but if she continues in chorus this semester, there are a couple of things I can recommend you do. First, I would ask for a copy of the syllabus for the class. The teacher should be able to provide this for you...if she doesn't have grading requirements in writing, you have a very strong case for challenging her grading and I would talk with the administrator. Second, the teacher should offer an alternate assignment for those who miss performances. In my d's case, she had to attend 3 outside choral performances and write critiques. These are just a couple of suggestions that you might present to the teacher first, and if that doesn't work, go over her head. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>My daughter has classical voice auditions at Mason Gross on 2/12. Anyone else going to be there?</p>

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<p>I am helping out with the auditions this Friday at Hartt. Is anyone going to be there? I know there is snow expected and I remember a lot of cancellations last year due to a blizzard.</p>

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<p>To recap:</p>

<p>DoctorJohn said:
"This is a topic worth discussing. I hear often that schools only allow students one or two days for college visits. That's one of the reasons we schedule auditions for weekends. But I imagine students miss much more than one or two days in order to do college visits and auditions, and I can easily imagine that high schools are not happy about this. So how have you dealt with this, moms and dads?"</p>

<p>We are lucky in that D attends a small public school that is very relaxed (that relaxation is not always good, but in this case, it is!). Noone seems to mind as long as she informs them ahead of time, lists the dates she will be absent, and makes sure to check in with the teachers about work due BEFORE she goes.</p>

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<p>My daughter is only a junior and anticipates auditions next year for vocal performance. We've already run into a few glitches with her school (a public performing arts high school!) about college visits and auditions. I ended up having to make a formal appeal to the Board of Directors, and they very readily amended their college visit/audition policy as it relates to absences. </p>

<p>What I learned is that, despite the fact that this is a performing arts high school, many of the guidelines were established by people who are not currently involved with college admissions/programs or never have been. To a large extent, our school's policy was based upon what other schools in the area are doing. It was a real eye-opener for all when I detailed the requirements of many colleges. I suspect the "educating the educators" approach may be necessary for anyone looking at an audition-based program; I consider us to be fortunate that once the facts were presented, there was no hesitation in readjusting the policy.</p>

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<p>A very well-known professional in the theatre world once told me something that I never forgot. Basically, he said that a double standard exists in schools for kids who are gifted in the arts and those gifted athletically. In my community, the local paper often devotes entire sections to HS seniors during Football and Baseball seasons. Occasionally, there will be a tiny mention about "so-and-so" got cast in a production or appearing on stage.</p>

<p>These sports phenoms can take days off, attend meets near and far, skip school, get courted by various schools for scholarships and the general public think it is normal. If a kid here (Southern CT) sees an agent in NYC or auditions frequently or spends $$$ on lessons, well--then these kids are being "pushed" by stage moms, robbed of their childhood or wasting their time.</p>

<p>I think many school administrations feel the same way. They hold two band recitals a year. Two plays, maybe three. Ditto choral concerts. The rest of the year is all about Varsity whatever. Walk down any HS hallway. Sure, you will see some art projects, but the banners, trophies and blue ribbons displayed in the front hall showcases are all about SPORTS. Attitudes like this create situations similar to those described in the above posts. Arts teachers have to become fiercely overprotective in order to keep standards high. </p>

<p>Does anyone agree?</p>

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<p>Freelance, I do agree, but let me tell you missing a sporting event or too many practices can really get you into trouble with coaches. Though S is done with the MT auditions, he really wants to go through with the Juilliard auditions, and they are scheduled smack in the middle of some important matches, and he now has a dilemma. He is trying to reschedule, but that really does not look like a good possibility. Basically, he loses it all if misses the one day, he just called and told me. And the date was changed on that match. If you want to get a wrestling coach or football coach, hot, tell him you are going on an audition to do a song and a dance. They're ready to turn him into a soprano. </p>

<p>Mama02, since it is last term senior year, I don't guess it's as big of a deal, but if it were not, I would have my student drop the danged choir, piano, anything to do with this teacher. Regretfully and tearfully. I don't think students need that kind of stress. It's tough enough going to these auditions and trying to stay abreast of the academics and juggling things where everyone is supportive. Most of the schools tend to calculate an academic gpa, anyways, leaving out the arts courses. If you can send some extra material with the midyear report, you might also have your D accompany it all with a letter just mentioning the stress of auditioning without support from the school without making a big thing about it. This has to be something that departements know occur. I know my older son had issues as an athlete between his club team and his highschool team , and every college coach knows about this strife. He was actually more fortunate than some kids who are in the midst of a raging war. So college performing art departments should be aware of the juggling these kids have to do. A remark about how glad your D is going to be to just be able to focus on a comprehensive program when she is in college is certainly in order.</p>

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<p>Doctorjohn and Everyone,</p>

<p>Thank you for your kind and encouraging words and ideas. After spending the entire night debating on the best way to handle this, and the morning reading responses, I called the guidance counselor and set up an appointment. I checked my D's copy of the syllabus, and it says that grades are based on participation, but extenuating circumstances due to illness, death in family, etc. would be considered. Well, I definitely feel this is an etc. However, this teacher has made quite a few uncalled for comments throughout the years that D chose to ignore in order to keep peace and continue enjoying singing in school. But this was the final straw, and D just wanted out of this person's classes...all of them. I had talked to the teacher before did ask her(before my final decision) if exceptions could be made next semester, because D will miss 6 maybe 7 days during this next grading period. She said absolutely not. So she basically left no choice. (One thing that I have not mentioned is that these grades could get her kicked off the National Honor Society, and make her ineligible for local scholarships that are GPA based so I HAD to get her out of there.)</p>

<p>After meeting with guidance, we changed her schedule which now includes working with handicapped children-something she had no time for before. (My degree is in Special Ed, so I'm excited about this opportunity for her. She is so blessed, I really want her to see the other kids up close and personal with the every day struggles they face.) I left the meeting and in the hall, D was so happy and relieved! She said this will make her spring schedule awesome-less stress. </p>

<p>Then: D got home from school and informed me that the teacher came into her last period class today shaking the paper with the schedule change on it, and in front of the entire class proceeded to yell at her and say things like, "Just because you got your grades lowered you pull out...I cant believe you did this to US right before our competition. These are classes that you need for your future, and I cant believe you would do this!" D said she just sat there, and didn't know what to say. The teacher also said that she needed her and that she was her best soprano. D told her that she had never felt liked, and had already made up her mind and it was for the best. At that point, the teacher said, "What, do I need to tell you how good you are?" She then went on yelling for a while longer, and left the classroom. The teacher in that class was in the back but all the kids were asking, "what was that all about?" </p>

<p>I am now sure I made the right decision! </p>

<p>Doctorjohn, I also told her what you said about the audition and references, etc, and she was quite relieved. Hearing that from you has done far more than you realize. I think she will actually put it out of her head now. Thank you so much! </p>

<p>Oh, about the sports issue, I am also a coach, and I can take my girls out of whatever academic classes I want, even to just go eat or go shopping before a game...never is a question asked. The Principal explained that as long as it is a SCHOOL event it is ok, and anything I require as a coach is a school event. Go figure. (I have taken them out really early on only one occasion-we had a 5 hour bus ride and I wanted to not just arrive right at game time, so I left time to eat and stretch, etc. Some coaches really take advantage of this, but never is it a problem.)</p>

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<p>Freelance,
The high school I attended in 9th and 10th grade emphasized sports a lot. There was inequity even in that, though. My brother went to college on a baseball scholarship, but most of his press and God-like status came from playing wide receiver and free safety on the football team. I was a JV cheerleader and was on the gymnastics and soccer teams. We were regional champs in soccer my sophomore year and hardly got any press at all – at least no more than I’ve gotten for my theatre endeavors. We definitely didn’t get any special treatment. All the football team had to do was make the regional playoffs and there would be entire pages devoted to them with free meals at local restaurants and the whole nine yards (and a cloud of dust. ;) ). It kind of makes sense, really. Where I’m from, the schools are under-funded. Football brings in more money than all the other sports and arts combined and actually helps fund some of the other programs. So, I guess that brings some props. No point in getting upset about it. They could definitely use some upgrades in the drama department, though. Perhaps they could even hire a real drama teacher instead of letting a stiff, geeky (but lovable) English teacher who can’t act herself handle it. As it stands, she sends the semi-serious students to the county fine arts center. I don’t even think they have a chorus teacher unless they’ve hired somebody recently. At least there is a good dance studio in town.</p>

<p>I suppose if a high school arts teacher is trying to build a reputable program, he or she should definitely take steps to protect it. That should come from doing things that inspire loyalty and respect and a love for the art, though. Not behaving like a banana republic dictator and screwing up senior GPAs because somebody can’t make a last minute performance due to a college audition she knew about well in advance. </p>

<p>BTW, I’ve dissed my arts high school’s administration several times on the Theatre/Drama thread, but they’ve done some wonderful things for me recently and I must give them props. I’m going back to finish up after spring break and walk in graduation.</p>

<p>P.S.
Mama02girlz,
Good lord! I just read your last message. That woman is a disgrace and should be fired - or at least medicated! I can't believe the other teacher let her get away with that!</p>

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<p>Dear everyone,
Thank you so much for all of the thoughtful advice. I decided to, like mama02girlz suggested, handwrite a letter and put it in her mailbox. I would have liked to talk to her in person, but the problem is this show that I am (as Freelance suggested) buying her tickets for is this coming weekend, and since it is ALSO midterm week (don't get me started...) I really don't have a chance to breathe let alone plan a visit to her house before then. I think my letter was honest and direct- and hopefully she'll forgive me. It's very hard to manage the loyalties of teachers in performance based studies- so many conflicts arise and there is always someone who gets disappointed. Mama02girlz- it's interesting, that last comment you said, about the chorus teacher saying to your D "What, do I have to tell you how good you are?" almost sounds like a case of jealousy!! A similar situation happened to my friend Sara, who is now unbelievably starring in Mamma Mia on Broadway at age 18 (after rising from an Ensemble position in the national tour which she landed at an open call). Her drama teacher at school really disliked her. Comically, the only time she ever got a part there was Maria in West Side, and the drama teacher had the nerve to double cast ONLY that part with a girl who was younger than Sara and really was no comparison talent-wise. She just had something against her. It's hard when kids run into those types of personalities. But I think that avoiding whatever the situation is with that teacher was definitely the right choice.</p>

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<p>That came out wrong- I didn't mean you avoided the situation, I meant you realized there was an issue with the woman and got the heck out of there!</p>

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<p>Dizzy-I think you may have a point there. My D's voice teacher is the also the Music Department head and professor at the nearby college. She schedules times for the upcoming school competitition. As a courtesy, my daughter told her what was going on with the choral teacher so she could fill D's no-longer-needed space at the competition. The voice teacher told D that they have a student at the college that graduated from our HS who was not liked by the same teacher. She had similar experiences as D. The professor told my D that this student is well-liked, adorable, and successful in college, and one of their "stars". She said that she can not imagine how any teacher could not like this student as she is respectful, hard-working, and a real teacher-pleaser. She then stated that she is beginning to see a pattern here. That almost made me cry, and my D got this big smile on her face which I hadn't seen in a lil while. Ah, the blessings we get when we least expect them.</p>

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<p>mam02girlz--after your daughter has decided on schools, you should write a letter to the principal and a copy to the school superintendent. By writing, it goes into the teacher's record. Someone like that should not be in a classroom, and if there is enough documentation, they can get rid of her. Just as it's important to praise those who are doing wonderful things for our children, I think it's important to document when there is someone who is abusing their power.</p>

<p>On a completely different note: Any suggestions for where to stay when we visit PSU?</p>

<p>If anyone is going to Ann Arbor, check out the Michigan League. They may be a little more expensive, but you are right on campus, which is really nice.</p>

<p>And if you are going to FSU, do not stay at the Ramada University. It wasn't particularly clean, the people at the desk were not helpful and it was incredibly noisy because of students partying</p>

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<p>newmtmom,
When visiting Penn State, a wonderful lodging option would be the Nittany Lion Inn. It's located right on campus adjacent to the theatre buildings, has a nice restaurant, and is walking distance to downtown State College. Depending on the date you come, there could be difficulty finding lodging there. Of course football season is over but there are lots of sports events and other activities that draw lots of visitors to State College. There are many other good options as well in town. I think the theatre department can mail you a brochure outlining a variety of good possibilities.</p>