<p>As a parent, I can certainly understand draMOMMAqueen's concerns and thoughts about wanting her D to have a more typical, well rounded college experience than she thought a BFA/conservatory program could provide. It's a parent's job to make sure -- in as much as it is possible! -- that our children get what they need, not only in terms of food, clothing, shelter, and love, but also the tools they will use to live their lives later. For my D, that will undoubtedly mean helping her find a college program where she can pursue the central love of her life (MT), and where she can be surrounded by people who "get" that and who feel the same way. I think that, for these kids, MT/theater is far, far more than an avid interest. It's a drive. It's almost as basic as breathing for them. In many ways, we should celebrate that our kids have found their passion so early in life and are so gung ho about pursuing it. For them, theater is work and play all mixed together. Isn't that what Joseph Campbell meant about "finding your bliss?" I have to say that I really am happy for my D that she has found hers.</p>
<p>A couple more thoughts that came to my mind in reading more posts...</p>
<p>Like you say, we all want what is "best" for our children. I think by the time they are old enough to be picking colleges, however, I think what is actually "best" is letting them make these choices about what they wish to pursue and where they'd like to do so. Yes, we can guide our kids, find resources, introduce them to possibilities but the ultimate decision, in my view, should be theirs. It doesn't matter what WE would choose if we were to pick a college. They are the ones going. Example, I'd want a college campus myself (and had one) but could care less if my daughters do but only want them to pick the kind of college environment that they want and to make sure they have thought through the pros/cons of each choice available but to go with their preferences once they do. Like I said, one of my kids would not have picked a college in Manhattan but the other loves that idea. I would not want a huge school but my D who goes to one doesn't mind it at all and has a small school within a big school three days per week. We can talk about the options out there, and then ask our kids to list reasons why they want X or Y college but let them pick. It doesn't matter if we think going to college football games or sororities could be fun (giving examples, not my own preferences) but only whether THEY want that experience. </p>
<p>Secondly, NotMamaRose brings up how wonderful it is that these kids found their passion so young life and already know what they want to do and are focused, etc. I feel slightly differently. I have one child in a liberal arts setting (Brown) who likes many things and was not ready to commit to a major upon applying to college. Like many young people, she will explore many things, as that is part of a college experience and then focus on a particular area and career goal. Unlike her sister in MT, her possible field of interest, architecture, is not one she can truthfully say, "I've done it my whole life so I know I want to go to college for this and plan a career in it." It is not a subject she studied all through school. She had some idea she might want to use her interests and talents in this field, did SOME exploration by doing a year long indep. study in high school, an internship with an architect one summer, and various papers on related topics. But she was not ready to commit yet to this field, nor enter a very focused program, a five year BArch degree program, which like a BFA in MT, means a commitment when applying directly to a program and about 3/4's (roughly) of her coursework in this one field. She wanted to be able to study many things and she did not know for sure she would love architecture or not. So, she made the choices she made for college. Now she is declaring Architectural Studies as her major and has taken courses at Brown and RISD and a summer intensive at Harvard and will do a study abroad program in this field but that journey makes sense for HER. She'll have to go to graduate school to earn a MArch if she is to go on in this field. Personally, I don't find one path better than the other. One kid, like SO many college students, is going to college, studying broadly and finding her focus and life's work. The other has known her focus and life's work for years, but also could honestly say she "knew" that because she could EXPERIENCE it in her youth, which is not true of some college majors or areas (ie., nursing, architecture, law, business). So, while knowing your college focus or career ambition at a young age has some cool aspects, it is just as cool to me to study broadly in college and discover one's passion and life's work and focus. My older D has passions like ski racing but has always meant for that to be an interest, not a vocation and so chose colleges where she could continue to be on a ski team but this is not her academic focus and at some point, she'll never give up skiing but won't be racing in graduate school, etc. Theater IS a college major and can (hopefully) be a career. </p>
<p>So, yes, we can celebrate that our kids found their passion young but it is not really any better than finding it later either, in my opinion. Finding the RIGHT COLLEGE FIT and PATH is partly determined by what you want to do....study broadly? liberal arts? narrow focus or degree program? All are worthy paths. But not all fit all people.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Bravo, Susan, you said it better than the rest of us (as usual!) :) While I am happy for my MT D that she has found her passion at a young age and is very focused, I know that's not the case for the majority of young people heading off to college, and that is fantastic on so many levels, too. In that case (and I would say, we are talking about most cases!) college provides intelligent and motivated young people with the opportunity to delve into a number of areas and learn about a number of things. In fact, having that chance is what I loved most about college! (Your D -- the one at Brown -- is a great example of this. I was, too. I left high school knowing I loved to write and had an aptitude for biological science. By the time I was a senior in college, I knew I wanted to be a medical or science writer for a newspaper.)
Most of all, Susan, I agree that, in the end, it is and should be up to the child/young person himself or herself what road to take, college wise. A former co worker of mine is a good example of what can happen if parents don't give their children that choice. This person wanted nothing more than to major in elementary education and become a teacher. Her parents refused to allow it, as they were both teachers and thought it was a lousy life. Now, this woman is in a job she loathes and feels it is too late (and too costly) to go back and start over.</p>
<p>HI again, after a long while! I posted here a long time ago about being dissatisfied with my current BS program in theatre at Skidmore college. I'm studying theatre and dance here, and while I'm enjoying many aspects of it, the lack of musical theatre is so upsetting. I know where I belong is in a BFA program studying MT because that is my passion. Well, I am very THRILLED to tell you that I decided to be CRAZY and go ahead and apply and audition at some schools. I've already got my Syracuse audition all set up!!!! As well, I'm going to audition for Emerson, and a few others. I'm so excited to really be going for it!! I don't even mind if I have to start over as a Freshman, although a performing arts recruiter from Syracuse told me I probably will be able to enter as a transfer, so that is excellent! Wish me LUCK! I want this with alllll of my heart!!</p>
<p>~Amy</p>
<p>Best of luck, Amy. You sound like a very intelligent and highly motivated young woman. I am sure it is not easy to contemplate transferring -- and going through auditions, applications, etc. all over again -- but you have to go where your heart is. I have heard great things about theater at Skidmore, and am thus interested (if you want to share) in hearing more of your impressions. Do they not do MT at all? Just a little? Did you have to audition to get into the program you are currently in?</p>
<p>Lisa</p>
<p>Amy, it is so great that you came back to the forum to give us an update. Glad you are going for it! (I'm the mom you PM'd once when you discovered that before you moved that you attended for short time, high school with my girls). My in-laws who live in Saratoga and take classes at Skidmore told me they saw the fall student run production of Once Upon a Mattress and were overly impressed with the lead female. Have you been able to take part in any productions? I also wonder if you have met a freshman from this state who took voice with my daughter, her initials are MM. Please let us know how it turns out for you and go get 'em!</p>
<p>NotMamaRose....Skidmore is not a BFA program and there is no audition. It is a very fine Theater BA program. It does have an interdepartmental major in dance/theater and you can self-design a major that combines with music. They have an active student run musical theater group called Cabaret Troupe that puts on musicals each semester. The department puts on plays. There are theater opportunities in the region that can be done for credit. Certainly a fine BA option in a well regarded theater program. (Don't mind me but I am in the middle of a college search at present for a client and was taking a break so have all this stuff at my fingertips!)</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I didn't notice DePaul University listed in the forum subtopics that are now (conveniently!) listed by school! I see quite a few impressive looking ads for this school in various drama publications, etc. and am wondering what anyone here might be able to tell me about their program. Do they offer a BFA in musical theater?
Also (and again, I realize I am bopping around, topic-wise, here :)) but I noticed that CCM also has an acting major. Is that offered through the Conservatory of Music, and if so, doesn't that seem, well, bizarre? I can understand an acting degree being offered through the Univ. of Cincinnati. But through their music school? If anyone can comment on this, I would be interested. I also would be interested in how that acting (not MT .. straight acting) program is perceived.
Lisa</p>
<p>I think De Paul isn't listed in the sub headings because it doesn't have a MT department. Only music performance and theatre (acting and others)</p>
<p>CCM... now that is interesting to me at this moment because I have two students who have been offered admission into their Dept of Drama (which is indeed housed in the Conservatory of Music) after their NET auditions.</p>
<p>CCM has actually been very enthusiastically pusuing these two with emails and personal phone calls from the Head of the Department of Drama no less. Neither is persuaded as of yet to apply and I am not sure I understand exactly why. Perhaps they are afraid that the drama department is the "ugly stepsister" of a renowned Music Department.</p>
<p>That's all I can offer. Just a guess.</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>CCM is discussed on part 8, page 5 of the Theatre/Drama thread. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=63432&page=5&pp=20%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=63432&page=5&pp=20</a>
ckp goes to DePaul and there was another DePaul student posting somewhere on the last part of that thread.</p>
<p>I visited last month and sat in on a freshman acting class and a sophomore acting class. (I don't know how much I've posted about the trip, sorry if any of this has already been said) Freshman year you study Viewpoints and Laban stuff. That class was fabulous, first they did lots of Viewpoints exercises and some improvs (to music, extremely cool!!! a whole story was created on the spot through just movement..definitely a very talented group of people) and they they discussed a book by Ann Bogart, which they had written essays on to hand in that day. That was probably the best part for me, listening to a group of such talented and articulate people talk about what they got from the book (they'd obviously been very moved by it and made lots of discoveries about themselves and acting, etc). What REALLY got to me though was when someone would criticize something Ann Bogart had said, or if they had a question about something, Richard Hess, the head of the department who taught the class would say stuff like "Well, this one time in rehearsal when she said that..." It was very cool. Three students also read monologues just to get a feel for them and get feedback from the class. Playwright Terrance McNally (sp?) was coming to do a master class the week after I was there so Richard Hess talked some about that and addressed their "boards" which they were all obviously dreading haha. Anyway, very good class, very intense but I felt zero competition between the students, it just seemed like an awesome learning environment.</p>
<p>I was then given a tour of CCM's facilities (AMAZING) by Richard Hess, and that afternoon went to the sophomore acting class, taught by a lovely older woman whos name I can't remember. That class was a little strange that day because they were involved in a master class with an expert in Elizabethan styles (they are preparing to audition for Measure for Measure) and they spent about half the class period in discussion with her. It was really interesting though. Usually in the sophomore class they are doing Meisner exercises (they did do a few improvs), and the sophomores are apparently a very strong class.</p>
<p>I saw "The Glory of Living," a graduate student directed show that evening. The piece was incredibly, insanely tough to watch, very gritty and in your face (the stage was even raked, in their gorgeous little black box theatre, making it even more in your face, aside from the material itself). The lead was played by a sophomore, who was truly fantastic, and the rest of the performances were equally strong, particularly the boy who played opposite her and another guy who was only in one scene but WOW. I was very, very impressed. </p>
<p>I think the thing I like best about the program is how different each year is. There is no set acting philosophy there, but rather they teach a great variety of techniques, and you become a very well-rounded performer there (not as in, well rounded like with lots of outside education, but you become a well rounded actor). They have a senior showcase as well as a FRESHMEN showcase for local commercial and voice-over agents, which allows many of CCM drama students to work all through college (awesome!). I also just loved the intense-yet-supportive environment. It's a great fit for me personally, I don't really know what your students are looking for though Mary Anna. And yes, Richard Hess is wonderful, I've experienced the same sort of thing with him as far as e-mails go. He's a fantastic teacher as well. If anyone has any questions just let me know.</p>
<p>I totally forgot to address the "ugly stepsister" thing. It's really hard to say from such a short visit. There were a lot of MT's at The Glory of Living when I saw it, so obviously they support each other. I talked to an adorable sophomore girl who said that she'd transferred from another school beccause she has a very good friend in the MT program who was like "it's amazing you have to come audition!" This girl also sings and I asked her if she felt frustrated being at a school where the departments are so separate. She said it was at first, but starting sophomore year you can take voice lessons and she just seemed really content with the program and very happy. So, I dunno. There seemed to be a lot of division, but not necessarily snootiness, if that makes sense? I think the programs respect each other and know that they are there with different outcomes in mind.</p>
<p>aspiring,
WOW< thanks for sharing so many details about your visit and your impressions. I will for sure have those two students read what you have written. </p>
<p>Any program who can bring in Bogart and McNally is very impressive.
I think part of the prob with these students is that they may be waiting to see what other offers come their way, so they are lukeward on CCM at the moment. Also, both are academics and are hesitant to commit to a conservatory setting. In addition, it is still relatively early in the audition season and they are waiting to see what other options are available.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your input. Everything you said is valuable and I appreciate your taking the time here.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you!
xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>aspiringactress-
your post was very informative and would be helpful to have on the CCM sub-forum. I have started a thread there and am wondering if you will either copy the above posts there, or give me permission to copy them for you. This way people who are interested can more easily find them as CCM is usually too short to come up in a search.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Mary Anna - Yeah, CCM might not be the best place for academics. I love writing and language arts in general, but I'm not too interested in math and science, so any program that doesn't make me take them is awesome for me :-D and almost every conservatory ACTING program makes the students take some sort of English class (I can't remember what CCM's requirements are, I don't know if they take on every year, or just once their freshman year). I can tell you though that the students there seem very bright, articulate, and insightful, so it's not like they'd be among almost-high-school-dropouts who wanted to go to a conservatory so they wouldn't have to work anymore lol. Good luck to your students though, I'd encourage them to apply just because it's about the best "back-up" school you could ever ask for!!</p>
<p>believersmom - I copied it onto the other thread. Thanks!</p>
<p>Guys,
Do most of these programs (including CCM, CMU and Tisch) allow applicants to apply for both MT and acting? In other words (in case I am not being clear) can a student apply and audition for both a college's MT program and its acting/theater program?</p>
<p>Also, does The Juilliard School require vocal performance and acting candidates to send in tapes/DVDs to prescreen applicants? Someone mentioned on one of these lists that people need to be invited to audition. By that, I am guessing it means that some paperwork (and, possibly, a DVD or tape, etc.) is sent in and the applicant is prescreened to make sure they are actually in the running. Is that right?</p>
<p>Because my own D is only a high school sophomore right now, I am asking this for a friend who is closer to the process. Thanks for any help you can give to me. </p>
<p>Lisa</p>
<p>NotMamaRose, this varies from school to school. </p>
<p>At Tisch, you audition and specify a first choice studio. There is one MT studio and 7 acting studios. You CAN say you will ONLY accept CAP21 (the MT studio) though they assure you that does not increase your odds of getting CAP and in fact, may decrease the odds of getting into Tisch itself as you are only considered for that one studio and if they like you but don't have room in that studio or feel you fit better in another, you'd be out if you said CAP only. So, you can be considered for acting as well, if you audition for MT, but stipulate an acting studio (a SPECIFIC one) as your second choice. However, if you only audiition for acting, you would not be considered for CAP (as you don't sing if just an acting applicant). </p>
<p>At some other schools (Syracuase and Ithaca are two that come to mind), at the audition, the form asks MT applicants if they don't get accepted for MT, would they accept Acting? My D wrote no but some who write YES, may not get into MT but may get into Acting.My D has a friend from our region who auditioned at Ithaca for MT but got Acting and is attending now for that. An Acting applicant won't be considered for MT though as he/she will not have sung. </p>
<p>If I recall for Emerson, you can only apply for one specific thing and be considered for one specific thing. </p>
<p>At CMU, even if you audition for MT, they WILL also consider you for Acting (they don't ask you if you wish to be considered for it). Actually my D did not get into CMU for MT but was priority waitlisted for Acting there....so that is one example. </p>
<p>Penn State, only has MT.</p>
<p>BOCO...just MT. </p>
<p>I think with CCM, you might have to apply directly to one or the other program but am not positive as my D did not apply there. </p>
<p>Juilliard, you apply to one program and yes, you send in some DVD or tape and have to be invited to audition. They do not have MT, however. </p>
<p>From anecdotes on CC, I think kids auditioning for MT at OCU, can be put into a BA program or something other than MT. I recall someone on here for UCF having that happen as well. </p>
<p>So, those are just a sampling, but it varies from school to school, as you can see. Sometimes you have to apply to one OR the other. Sometimes they consider you for either whether you want them to or not, and sometimes you can state if you wish to be considered for either. </p>
<p>Any applicant MUST check with each school because of the variations that exist from one college to another. Don't go by a message board.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Susan is right,</p>
<p>Each school is everything from SLIGHTLY different, to VERY different in their straight theatre/mt offerings. Check with each individual school to be sure.</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>Susan, That isn't right about Juilliard ... at least not for drama. You don't send in a tape or anything for prescreening. They have morning and afternoon sessions followed by callbacks and it is all in person. </p>
<p>Some other schools where they will consider you for acting if you don't make MT without doing separate applications are Otterbein, Florida State and Hartt.</p>
<p>Thanks to both Susan and Mary Anna. (If you two had Ya Ya names, they would be "The Two Wise Ones!" :)) </p>
<p>I will pass this info along to my friend. She also is wondering if it is somewhat easier/less competitive to get into straight acting programs, rather than MT, and my guess is you guys will say "It depends on the school and program, but, overall, the answer is yes." Am I correct?</p>
<p>I am also wondering if straight acting students at, say, Tisch, can still audition for musical theater productions there. (Ditto other schools, but you will probably tell me that it depends on the school.) I am just guessing that students who did not make it into CAP21 but who checked the "will consider a straight acting program box" instead might want to participate in musicals even if they are not studying MT, per se, at school.</p>
<p>Gosh, this is a complex subject. I have NO idea how any parent who is not on this board would learn all this stuff! I feel lucky that I stumbled on this board. By the time my D is at the point where she is actually applying, I feel I will be somewhat ahead of the game just by having been here.</p>
<p>Lisa</p>
<p>Thanks, triplethreat! Of course, it seems a little strange for The Juilliard School to prescreen vocal music candidates (or violinists!) and not actors. Frankly, I would think there are as many, well, clueless potential actors as there are singers, oboeists, etc. (By that, I mean people who think they have what it takes but don't. The kind of people we all have seen auditioning for "American Idol" who can barely carry a tune, but are convinced -- because all their lives, people have told them so -- that they <em>can</em> sing.) On the other hand, Juilliard is Juilliard. They obviously know what they are doing, so if they don't require acting candidates to send in a taped monologue but do require potential singing students to send tapes in, there must be a reason that all works out in the end.
One thing I wonder about Juilliard is how much grades, transcripts, and standardized test scores (SAT, ACT) count, even as a prescreening tool. From what I can gather through the proverbial grapevine, it sounds as if the school really doesn't worry about that stuff much. What they are looking for it talent that can be developed. Is that correct? I do know that they accept a teensy tiny percentage of the many people who audition. As one parent told me "One might as well hope to send one's child on a trip to the moon." Of course, <em>someone</em> has to get in.
Lisa</p>