Colleges For Musical Theater - Part 40!

<p>Without the formal training, too often students are limited in their capabilities. They may have no sense of style (can't cast them in a period show or pastiche). They may have no variety of technique (Rent is fine, but Les Mis is out, etc.). They may be a great singer, but can't dance/move (can't cast them in the chorus of a dancing show).</p>

<p>Also, and this is less apparent, they lack the skills to KEEP a job. When teaching at a junior college, I had a student who got a Broadway role (Rent) and dropped school. Without embarassing this student (and myself!) with all the lurid details, she:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>showed up at the stage door a week early, and said, "I'm here and ready to work" (read as "be a pain in the butt, because no one is expecting me"), and then got snooty when they didn't welcome her with open arms.</p></li>
<li><p>fell off the 2nd story of the set yet was able to catch hold of the edge of the scaffold and had to pull herself back up while finishing her song (training taught her how to do that - keep on going). </p></li>
<li><p>lit her hair on fire from a candle during Light My Candle.</p></li>
<li><p>chipped the tooth of her leading man when kissing him (she was just so excited to be there...)</p></li>
<li><p>got transferred to another location in the country under the ruse that it was closer to home, so that she could see more of her family; when in actuality, they had planned to close that company, and were sending her to her pink slip.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>This is a student who had limited training, but tons of talent. She has not worked since that time...a reality of this business, I know. But I can't help but feel that, with proper training and maturity, she would have begun a very successful career. If only she had the skills, discipline, and other "talents" that school offers, she might be on her way.</p>

<p>Another reason to train? Intelligence. You are simply a more broad-based instrument after studying things like gen eds required to get a degree.</p>

<p>With a degree, you can get a decent paying job more readily than without.</p>

<p>Also, many smart performers continue their lessons after they start their careers; this is to continue to be competitive in the industry. These lessons are very expensive, right? So, at school, you are receiving a "one price pays all" training opportunity (maybe this is an oversimplification, as incidentals are incurred, but it's in the ballpark of what I am trying to say).</p>

<p>Hope this details my support for post-secondary education. I don't know many kids who "make it" straight out of high school - with theatre being as expensive as it is to produce, and with so many well-trained and mature, responsible people in the pool to select from, casting folks won't take a big risk like that. Too much is at risk to favor naivete over experience.</p>

<p>eve</p>

<p>Great post, Eve. I'd like to think that a good MT program will help students prepare for a "post-stage" career in the field. For most of them (and us), the legs and looks and voice won't last forever and I would hope that the "business" side of the MT curriculum would deal with that reality.</p>

<p>Eve, your post is excellent.</p>

<p>I'd like to add that what if a kid doesn't make it in this field on stage? A distinct possibility, I'm afraid, even for those with the BFA degree. Those with a college degree will have more opportunities at jobs/careers due to having a college education, than those who did not make it on stage who only had a HS diploma. </p>

<p>Education is important, also, beyond what job you can get with it. Being an educated person never goes out of style :D.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Eve,</p>

<p>What a great post!! I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the value of time spent in a college training program. Often because many these kids have spent so much time in training in their young lives they are already quite sophisticated in their performing arts skillset. But as you so clearly describe, they are not nearly so sophisticated in their life skills. Because they often portray older, more mature characters on stage, it is easy to confuse their theatrical personas with their their real ones. I'm afraid that the students themselves also fall into this dangerous trap. There is so much growing up to do, so much to learn from the years spent "on their own" but still under the guidance of experienced, supportive, knowledgeable and nurturing faculty. They also receive the feedback from their talented classmates - about performing arts and living arts. We all complain about how expensive four years of college can be and there is no doubt that it is an investment. But when weighed against the costs of entering the world they are dreaming about without adequate training and some degree of perspective as to what this world can be like, somehow the price of this education begins to feel more like a bargain to me.</p>

<p>Hi Collegemom,</p>

<p>I'm not sure if you got my e-mail or not, so I'll post here. Could you please correct the spelling for the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music? Cincinnati has 3 N's and only 1 T. It gets misspelled a lot. Also, it would be nice to have the entire school name listed as I typed it above. So many people have trouble when looking for info on the program because they don't know the real name of the school.
Thanks,
Kathy</p>

<p>Eve, I agree with you that an education and the training that it entails is always of benefit to every prospective actor. I am an obvious proponent of as much education as possible and that the student can afford. :) Although there are many who are successful on Broadway without it, it is never a waste of time to get that education, in my opinion. </p>

<p>I have to say, though, that although I've heard some of those Rent stories through the years, I can't help but wonder if some of them have turned into urban legends. ;) I'm very familiar with the show and the casts because of several family friends and a couple of relatives who have performed in it. There hasn't been a full-time Broadway Mimi who was sent to a touring cast, and I can't think of any previous 'Mimi' who hasn't worked since leaving the show. I'd understand if you don't want to mention her name here on the forum but I'd be interested to know who it is if you could PM me her name.</p>

<p>Kathy, I got your email and put in your request to the Forum Administrator who is the one creating the subforums. I hope he takes care of it but these things take time. The requests of what the MT readers (and I) want are done by me, but the carrying of them out is in someone else's hands (technically on the computer). The part I have been able to now take care of since I last posted here is that he got back to me on the fact that threads I had moved to the new subforums were not appearing there and he said it was because it had been set to just allow threads from the past thirty days but he has now changed that setting and I have just completed moving over any threads that had these schools or programs in the titles as subjects. I am still waiting to hear if my list of 30 schools will go up though I provided it already. Same with your request. Still waiting on answers to those questions. </p>

<p>Often I do respond to emails and PMs but sometimes if I can take care of a request, I just take of the request and the person who wrote me will eventually see it solved and I don't always write the person back who reported something. I try. I am only a volunteer. In this case, I put in your request within minutes of receiving it and thought it might be fixed by now but apparently has not been. Sorry about that. It is not anything I can fix on my own, unfortunately.</p>

<p>CollegeMom</p>

<p>CollegeMom, it looks GREAT!!! Thanks so much, it is a HUGE advance on this board to have the schools listed that way.</p>

<p>Thanks, the forum administrator did the tech work. Some time soon, I will move existing threads (not individual posts on general threads) on these schools over. I have only moved the five schools we started with last night. </p>

<p>Enjoy...
CollegeMom</p>

<p>So how did the Syr/Ithaca auditions go? anyone want to post a report? It was pretty cold....</p>

<p>wow college mom...thanks for all the hard work.</p>

<p>Help!</p>

<p>A while back someone posted the announcement of the leaving of the head drama instructor at Julliard. Can someone help me find this post or repost the information if they have it? Thanks.</p>

<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>

<p>never mind, I found the answer to my inquiry...it's Michael Kahn.</p>

<p>SUE</p>

<p>I am new to this dicussion so I have been somehwat reluctant to ask certain questions, but since someone brought up the education/college experience versus "just going out there" I will ask a question that has been on my mind from the beginning. I am just going through the application/audition process with my daughter and I have been extremely concerned about this course of education. I too feel that her education is paramount in the event that her MT dreams do not come true. My husband and I have restricted her applications in that conservatory-type environments were not an option. We wanted to make sure the academics were as big a part of her education as the MT training. I am sure that her training will suffer to a certain degree as a result, but it was important to us. Is anyone concerned about the possibility that their kid is just growing up too fast. What I mean is, and especially in a city environment like New York, the kids are not really getting the "college experience". They are off seeing shows, hanging out with like students, etc. There doesn't seem to be the typical "community" feel that a true campus experience would give them. They are so focused on this training and the goal that it seems to me they miss out on what the whole experience is about. Maybe I am blowing it out of proportion. I have a son at the University of Delaware who is majoring in vocal music. The program seems decent, but what I have noticed is that he is truly loving "campus" life. The fraternity aspect, the dorm environment and even has joined campus sport teams (volleyball, soccer, etc.) I feel that my daughter will not enjoy a similar experience. I would love some feedback on this as it has weighed heavily on my mind for a long time. Everyone here seems so knowledgeable. Thanks</p>

<p>I went to UCLA, a college that didnt suit me, (i would have loved a smaller college back east probably, ah, hindsight!), so therefore I did not have the "college experience" that you are describing, and i always felt that was my loss. my husband went to stanford and had the college experience that you see in mickey rooney movies: rah! rah! rah!, lived on campus all four years, stanford band....the best time of his life. so i want for my D what I didnt have and he wanted for her what he had. If she chose a less traditional campus we would not have said no, but at the time, we were glad she chose a traditional one. We also restricted her college choices so that she would not go to a concervatory. She had great grades (800 on her english SAT) and could have in theory gone anywhere she wanted, but of course her first love was, is and always will be musical theatre so that restricted where she could apply. she is far from the typical rah, rah, rah college type, (many MT kids are not typical that way), but she is at a very traditional college campus. and takes advantage of absolutely none of it!! she is emersed in MT, and the MT and theatre kids, and the improv company to which she belongs. she tried the traditional campus thing her freshman year because her roomie was that way. my D lived in the dorm the first year on a fine arts floor: she couldnt wait to get her own apartment because most of the kids on the floor were not as serious about their passion as she was-- she didnt want to stay up all night and blow out her voice! she went to frat parties and games etc., etc., etc. most of the kids who engaged in these things had no idea what my D is all about and what her passion is and she quickly found that the theatre kids (both MT and straight theatre) became her core friends. they do lots of college-y things together--go on road trips, see touring shows that come through town, have parties (nightly, by the way!!). she is throughly enjoying college life, but the truth is, and now i know this--she would have enjoyed college life ANYWHERE she could be emersed in MT. MT kids rarely have time to be "regular" college kids. look at susans daughter's out of school schedule! think of rehearsals until midnight everyday of the week! nothing about our kids is "normal" in the sense of the majority of other college kids. even their college applications are different! who else has to leave high school for significant parts of the week to audition to get into college!? i wanted my D to have access to something to which she has paid no attention whatsoever! for D#2, i have only said: no conservatories. Yes, she is applying to schools that have no traditional campus, like NYU and Emerson, and to schools with very traditional campus settings as well. but now I know not to be concerned about silly things like that. I think how miserable my D's would be if they could not be so focused on training all the time. it is what they get up in the morning for and what they have so much energy for 20 hours later!! their "community" are the other performers in the department. these kids are a family now, and I am grateful everyday that my D's college experience revolves around everything she holds most dear to her heart. What else could I ask for, for her in college? In life? I sort of think of it like dinner: its not what kind of plate its served on, its whats on the plate that makes the meal delicious!</p>

<p>I have often wondered what the "college experience" that many refer to would be? I love that, on Halloween, my son celebrated by going with friends to see Sweeney Todd (rather than hitting the local bars or a frat party). On weekends he's rehearsing, or assisting on shows or visiting museums, or taking dance classes. He's also hanging out with friends on his floor who are in a variety of majors, ordering out for pizza, going out to dinner, or getting together with a group to cook in. Once, on a friday night, I caught up with him in route to "free food" that his roomate had told him about. He has faculty he respects for mentors and with whom he has interesting intellectual discussions. His friends are bright, focused and excited about pursuing their dreams. There are probably clubs he would join if he had more time, and when the weather was better he played tennis at a court not far away. My s would not have been happy at a school where sports and greeks ruled.
I wish he had more free time, but I suspect he would just fill it with more of the theater, voice, or dance activities that he has always gravitated to.</p>

<p>that's right.
When theatre is your life in college you don't need a sorority, fraternity or sports entertainment. The theatre becomes all that to you and more. And if your as busy as most, you won't even notice. </p>

<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>

<p>Sacreccasmom, wow, that was an amazing post. I enjoyed reading it! </p>

<p>There are several issues in your post, DraMOMMa. One is going for a BFA and the whole "fallback" notion. For me, I'm totally comfortable with my child going for a BFA in this difficult field (difficult in terms of making it, I mean) because for one, she is getting a college education. That will always serve someone well down the line....both in terms of becoming an educated person for its own sake but also in terms of getting work. Also, I fully support her pursuing the field that is her passion. I can't imagine not doing so. I can't separate theater from my kid's identity. It is part of who she is. It's a passion and it is even a talent (not more than your kids' talents but you know what I mean....it is something she's good at). She may not make it on stage but there is no harm in going for it. SOMEBODY is going to make it. If she doesn't? I know there is a myriad of other theater related things she can do, enjoys doing, even has talent doing....directing, choreographing, musical directing, writing scripts, teaching youth, and even accompanying. As well, like many of your kids, it is not like she can ONLY do theater and has no other skills or talents. She may love theater as her MAIN passion but she is good at other things (like I am sure your kids are too). In her case, she is a gifted writer. She could do something in that area. Her college graduates "thinkers" and also BFA kids have many skills they can bring to any job. Not everyone in the work force is working in their exact college major. We did not put restrictions on where our child could apply but because she is someone (like your kids) who is a very good student academically and enjoys learning other things, such as in humanities, she wanted a BFA program that had SOME liberal arts. So, your D could opt for BFA programs that fit more of that need/interest as all programs vary a bit in this regard though no BFA program is the same as a BA would be. A BA program may even be a good option for your D, particularly at places like Muhlenberg, American, or Indiana, where she still could major in musical theater. Or a BA program where there is a lot of theater on campus and in courses....like Brown, Vassar, Skidmore, Yale, Conn College, Tufts, etc. </p>

<p>The other issue you bring up is about the college campus environment. But this is not so much a BFA issue. If your child wants more of the typical college campus environment, then a school like UMich, Penn State, CMU, Syracuse, Ithaca, for example, fit the bill. Going to NYU, Emerson, or BOCO are not traditional campuses but have nothing really to do with a BFA. Even a NON theater student who picks a school like NYU, is content without the traditional campus environment where the city is the campus. This is not for all people. My older D (now at Brown) would never want the NYU setting for her school. Some do want a regular campus, even if near a city. That is part of anyone's college criteria when picking a school. It is not really a BFA issue. My D at NYU LOVES and WANTED this. She does not care about the traditional campus stuff. I venture to say that those she knows in BFA programs on more traditional campuses, often have the experience that sarrecssasmom is saying because they tend to hang with their theater peers in the BFA program who are leading similar schedules and share similar passions. They may attend the football games and frat parties too. My daughter has plenty of social life but a majority of her friends attend Tisch, though not all are in MT by any means. But the lifestyle of someone in a BFA program is NOT like a regular college student in the first place. </p>

<p>My D's schedule yesterday....she left her dorm at 8:30 AM and her away message was "long day, back at midnight!". I know she had her MT studio classes from 9-6. Then she was on a required crew assignment from 6-8 (had to leave it a bit early with permission) and then she was in a concert performance with her coed a capella singing group. (let's not forget homework too). Today, same idea. Besides going to school ALL day most days, some weeks she has crew each night, but not all weeks. Two nights for a combined total of six hours, she has rehearsals for the singing group. She also has Tisch Scholars every other Friday night. One lecture course occasionally meets at night this semester too. She also has an internship that turned into a job and I know, for example, she is working Sat. and Sunday in that (musical theater related), plus crew for shows this weekend. She now has become the pianist/accompaniest for the production of Full Monty and was playing for auditions for that this past week AFTER nightly crew and now will be rehearsing nightly with them for a couple months (when not at her other rehearsals for her singing group). That's a life that these kids lead. It is not like regular college and hanging out though she does go out on weekends socially, parties, nightspots, sees many shows both on campus and off campus. She still leads a college life, lives in a dorm, etc. but it's the life of a BFA student. She loves college. Much of what I just related would be the case at any BFA program whether or not on a traditional or city type campus. But if traditional campus is appealing, that is part of coming up with one's college criteria/preferences when making a list. </p>

<p>Any student needs to narrow their choice of school by things like location, setting, size, curriculum, atmosphere, etc. But you CAN do a BFA on a traditional college campus. Whether you have time to do all the traditional college stuff, remains to be seen. Most BFA kids hang together. I saw this at CMU, UMich, Syracuse. They spend many hours together so they also tend to do social stuff together. At CMU, most of the BFA students seemed to move off campus to live together. But some kids at these schools do participate and enjoy other aspects of campus life. For instance, Bdwaymom who used to post here, has a D at PSU. Her D WANTED the campus life, the rah rah stuff, not a school in the city and she loves PSU. Kids who go to UMich, even for a BFA, tend to go to the footballl games. My D thought it sounded fun but did not care about that. Her ECs are theater and music related and so she has those activities and social connections with friends in those activities outside of class. Her singing group traveled to perform at Georgetown (and she did remark the great contrast in the campus! and also how the event they performed at was a BIG deal at that college with a huge turnout) and also will be performing in March at Brown. While she doesn't travel with a sports team, she has those trips. Her Tisch Scholars group will travel to Kentucky in March over spring break to work with an arts community in Appalachia. The older kids in her Scholars program are going to India in a couple weeks to work with those in the arts over there and she too will go abroad with this group to some place next year or the year after (next year is Brazil). As well, if she wanted to, she could study abroad one semester like other college students do. She also will be in liberal arts courses eventually after this year with NON Tisch students. There are many organizations on campus to get involved in as well. </p>

<p>I hope that gives you a bit of a look "inside" and what the choices are.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

<p>Jasmom, I did not see your post before I posted but can relate. On Halloween, my D (as a service project) went with older friends and recent graduates of Tisch to perform a musical theater review at a children's hospital. Then at night, she dressed up for Halloween with a bunch of her Tisch friends and went to that big party in GreenwichVillage. While she did sports for years when younger, she does not do spectator sports really and doesn't care about frat parties. She is involved in parties and social outings to see shows and do piano bars and what not with her theater friends. Like your son, her time outside of class, when not doing homework, is often spent in something related to the arts anyway. For theater kids, that IS their fun. I asked my D how in the world she is now taking on being the pianist for Full Monty and she said, I WANT to do this, I love it, it's with the older theater kids (she knows many of them) and this is just what I love doing and I'll hopefully be in shows next year and will have to keep these hours then anyway. So, with the "free hours" they have, they pick this sort of theater stuff to do. Same with her new job.....she'll work on Sat. and Sun. but it's fun...alongside graduates of other BFA in MT programs. It isn't like all these MT kids even want the football games and what not. That's the difference. Some do, and therefore must pick a college and a program that fits that preference. But as a parent, I would have my child pick what college criteria THEY wanted, not what I think they SHOULD have.</p>

<p>Wow - thanks to everyone so much for your responses. As I mentioned to a few people, it is what I expected to hear. My daughter feels exactly the same way your kids do. I know that she will follow the same pattern, hanging out with theater kids, occupying her free time with the arts, etc. I know she loves it and is consumed. I also know I couldn't say or do anything to change her mind. I just worry some times that there is more out there to see and learn about and that she won't expose herself to it because... I guess in the grand scheme of things it may not be important. It just seems to me a terrific time in life to take advantage of EVERYTHING and I don't feel she will. Anyway, thanks again for all of the wonderful insight. It does feel good to know that others are experiencing the same.</p>