Colleges For Musical Theater - Part 40!

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Once again I am turning to the collective wisdom on the board. The question is—what kind of background experience is most worthwhile for a MT kid? My junior daughter is in a bind about her use of time and we could use some advice.</p>

<p>In terms of production experience, she has participated in a community musical review (ensemble) for the last 8 years, is in a semi-pro dance company, participated in children’s theater (age 8-13), and had minor ensemble roles in 4 adult community theater productions.</p>

<p>As you all know, training costs are high for a MT kid. She takes weekly voice lessons, tons of dance and acting. My husband and I have taken on extra work and our D has also contributed to the costs of her lessons. She has been a grader for an elementary teacher for two years. She has subbed and taught at her dance studio, helped out in summer MT workshops, and choreographed for children’s productions. </p>

<p>This year she got three intro to dance classes to teach. They are all on different nights. Unfortunately, this came exactly when she was offered a major role in the first musical her high school has done in 13 years. As much as she wanted to do it, she told the director she had made a commitment to teach the classes and couldn’t make the rehearsals. It was a tearful time! She was asked if she would have time to choreograph and she did do that as well as a very nice full page spread of photos for the school paper. </p>

<p>She loves working with kids and is very good at it. It amazes me to see what she can pull out of them, and how she can get them to listen (even when they are older than she is). </p>

<p>However, because of the situation, she has been unable to audition for anything this fall. I can tell that it hurts when she sees other kids doing shows that she can’t do, but she is firm in her belief that she should stick to her commitment and use any free time to prepare for SATS, keep up her grades and work on her voice and monologues</p>

<p>Yesterday a local director called and left a message. He wanted her to know about an Alexander workshop that was coming up and to ask what her schedule was like. She knows he wants her to participate in something else. She doesn’t know what to do.</p>

<p>My husband says that what she is doing will demonstrate to colleges that she is mature and responsible. I worry that she will look weak in the production end. She wants to do it all, but knows she can’t. She could probably drop one or more of the classes she teaches at the end of the semester and that would free her up to do something else. Or she could hold a steady course realizing that she won’t be able to do any shows this year.</p>

<p>Any words of wisdom you have would be appreciated. </p>

<p>Vicki</p>

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<p>vicki - </p>

<p>while i am by no means an expert on the subject, i think she will not be penalized for her lack of staged show experience when she has as much training/other experience as you have said.</p>

<p>for example, when i was auditioning for schools, when i gave the adjudicators my headshot/resume, they were all quite surprised at the number of shows i've been in (over 40 - some pro, some community, some opera, etc.) and said that most people come in having only been in a few shows. it really is a lot more about the performance IN the audition room than what you've done before, i think. </p>

<p>also, from what you posted, your daughter DOES have a fair amount of performing experience. this will help her stage presence, etc.</p>

<p>i would say you have nothing to worry about. it sounds like your daughter is very very talented. </p>

<p>maggie</p>

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<p>I'd like to weigh in on encouraging your daughter to find room for what's most fun for her. College (especially in drama/mt) will be VERY busy. (I do appreciate that she's honoring her commitment, but SHE counts, too.) My son shifted from regular teaching/assisting in dance classes, to offering self as a sub through his last year or two of high school.</p>

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<p>Hi, Vicki:</p>

<p>I'd say that she may not gain as much by the Alexander workshop as she could potentially lose in time, energy and focus (being stretched in yet another way). There will be study of voice & movement/body work in college.</p>

<p>On the lack of roles, you needn't worry. When I look at a prospective BFA student and see in them the "it" factor, I don't look at how many shows they have or haven't done (unless there is a dead tie between two equally talented prospects, and we need something to break the tie). I want a student's talent, not a huge resume. If these schools like/want her, they'll try to get her (regardless of resume, work experience, etc.).</p>

<p>eve</p>

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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I have seen this quandry many times.</p>

<p>To ease your mind a bit - I believe either direction your daughter chooses will likely be fine in the long run. It sound s as though she is getting a lot of training in voice, acting and dance - with or without the high school experience. When it comes to auditions for college - the preparation and training is what counts. Your audition is what counts. </p>

<p>Having said that, in most cases I would opt for the high school shows. I understand the culture of dance studios - and the wonderful relationship teachers have with students - but, I think the full fledged experience at a high school is part of the process as well. High school shows offer many benefits that you cannot come by at the studio. These include opportunities for developing perhaps more intricate roles than would be afforded a young person in a community theatre setting, and, more importantly, the social interaction with her peers at school.</p>

<p>Most young studio performers have been there a long time by the time they are in high school - I'd opt for new and broader experiences in the school show. Many studios do allow their students an opportunity to work with their high schools and still keep a diminished status with the studio - perhaps that is a possibility. </p>

<p>Best of luck in any case!</p>

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<p>Once again the community rises to the occasion! </p>

<p>Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. I will relay them to my D. I think they will help a lot. </p>

<p>The college audition is, of course, the key. She has ways to go before she will be ready for that. Theres no telling at this point if she'll reach her objectives but we just want to be sure that the course she is on is reasonable one for her college goal. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, I don't know if her school will ever do another musical or play. It is a very academically/sports oriented school and doesn't do much in the arts. They have put on one musical in 13 years and a couple of melodramas. Mostly they do readers theater. It is really to bad she couldn't participate the one time they actually did somethng.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your help!</p>

<p>Vicki</p>

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<p>I am a new member here. My D is a junior this year and devoted to MT. She has taken voice and dance for years; works as a singer, dance teacher and choreographer; and is a 5.00 student. She is a confident performer who has, up to this point, been a big fish in our area. Her dream school is NYU Tisch, although she plans to apply to about 8 different schools. DOES ANYBODY here have any real information on just how tough it is to get into one of these schools? It almost sounds futile as I go back through all the entries. I want to encourage my daughter to follow her dream, I just want to be able to prepare her for disappointment should it come her way. Just how good do you have to be? Do all the applicants already perform professionally? Exactly how good is good? HELP PLEASE</p>

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<p>how good is good depends on what school. dont apply to nyu if you have a 2.3, its not practical. it depends on the school you are lookin at. if your strength is music as opposed to acting, then steinhardt is the better program over tisch. </p>

<p>it sounds like your d would be a good fit for tisch, with respect to her grades. but its important to remember that the odds are really hard (7% acceptance at tisch). so dont put all your eggs in one basket. </p>

<p>in regards to finding info, id get your ds list of schools shes interested in, and then read their subforums. im totally open to any questions regarding tisch and cap 21 and other studios from an auditionee (and accepted) point of view. so i can help you with fafsa, what to wear, all that good stuff. feel free to pm me when ever youd like. </p>

<p>chris</p>

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<p>I appreciate the input. My D is a singer who can dance and act. I did see a few mentions in early entries that Steinhard is geared to singers and Tisch is geared to actors, do you believe that to be true? Also, do you know whether you can apply to both schools? She has narrowed her choices to NYU, Northwestern, Michigan, UCLA. We live in California, so Cal State Fullerton is always an option. Do you know anything about Syracuse or Ithaca, or the quality of their programs. As for Tisch, my daughter applied last year as a sophomore to their summer program at CAP21. She was placed on a waiting list and received a very nice letter stating that she was one of only three going-to-be juniors who were contemplated, and the letter stated that she was "strongly encouraged" to re-apply for this summer and attach the letter to her application. Do you know anything about the summer program at CAP21? Do you think it will giver her a better idea about whether she is ready to swim in a much bigger pond? I thank you again for your advice.</p>

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<p>thirdtree - It seems to me that relatively few of the kids auditioning have performed professionally. Your daughter sounds very talented, and being smart will be highly valued at some of the schools and will, hopefully, bring good merit scholarships. As I recommend to everyone, she should go for it. Just be sure you have at least one or two less competitive or non-audition schools to fall back on if nothing else works out. Otherwise, encourage her to follow her dreams.</p>

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<p>thirdtree-</p>

<p>yes tisch/cap 21 is definatley geared towards actors who can sing and dance. at least thats what the artistic director of tisch, Mr. Bartow. steinhardt is the more music based program. out of the two, i would say that cap is more triple threat based. </p>

<p>also in regards to the summer program, if her dream school is nyu (tisch), then it can only help you. soozievt's daughter is in cap, and said that there are a lot of people who did the summer program who got in. so its definatley to her benefit. </p>

<p>in regards to michigan and northwestern, those were my 2 and 3 respectively. i got rejected at michigan, and didnt audition at northwestern (early decision at nyu). so i can help you on those three. ive got a good friend who goes to northwestern, and i auditioned at michigan. those are more music based than tisch, as far as i know. the other schools, not so sure about. i am getting tired, so im gonna go to bed, but any more questions, just let me know</p>

<p>chris</p>

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<p>Ericsmom,
Thanks for the advice. I do want to encourage her to follow her dreams. It just seems like such a longshot for so many kids, that it concerns me. She will likely be applying to 8-10 schools. I think her feeling as far as a MT degree goes is that if the school doesn't require an audition, she probably won't apply. If she isn't good enough to get into a program that requires an audition, she will probably consider another major. I believe she thinks she's good enough. I think she's great, but what do I know, I'm her mom. Fortunately, she has maintained academic excellence such that she likely has other options, although none as appealing to her as MT. Do you have a child in a MT program?</p>

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<p>thirdtree,</p>

<p>I am in the same boat as you...my d is also a junior this year, so we will be going through this together next year. My d is also a "big fish" where we live and has been blessed with some fabulous opportunities. What I always tell her is that for everyone like her here, every city or state out there has one just like her. Part of that is me wanting her to stay grounded (no divas here) and part of it is likely so. I am her mom....I think she is awesome. But in all truthfulness, I don't count...at least not in the scope of all of this. I'm the secretary, cheerleader and truly her biggest fan! I will not be deciding where she gets in and we have no way of knowing how fabulous the MT audition pool is until she starts auditioning and even that doesn't guarantee anything. There are kids with tons of experience who get in some of the top schools and not others and there are kids with very little experience who get in to some of the top schools and not in others. There is just no way to tell!</p>

<p>I think if your d has had some success with dance, theater, singing and people have told her that she is wonderful, it's a start. Why not go for it?! A very wise friend told me just yesterday "The only shots you miss are the ones you don't take!" Great words of wisdom there! </p>

<p>My daughter wants to apply at many of the same schools as yours, with the exception of Northwestern. It is my understanding that you don't audition to be accepted and you get accepted into straight acting. Then you have the option to audition for MT later on and very few get in. I think my d wants to be sure she will be a BFA mt major. But there is so much incredible information on this forum. Go back, read through, print things out and start a file! As far as Ithaca/Syracuse...go to their individual sections and read everything...I know....it's a lot to take in.</p>

<p>I have heard great things about Cap21 and there is another mom on here who's junior is also applying. My d sent in her application for CMU pre-college and is auditioning at a couple of other places as possible backups. Maybe they will see more if they get into those summer programs what the talent pool is like. </p>

<p>My d feels the same as yours in that if she didn't get into an audition school than maybe this isn't for her. But I don't think that is necessarily so. Maybe she could just need more training, etc. There are only so many top schools with so few spots and there are certainly many talented kids out there. I think the best we can do is help them focus on them and being the best they can be. It's not going to help my d one bit worrying about everyone else out there. Your d sounds like she is confident in her abilities and that's what she needs. Good luck to her. Welcome to cc! It's a great source of info for sure!!</p>

<p>Kaysmom (Kathie)</p>

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<p>As we approach the week of the Unified Auditions, I’ve been musing about numbers. I’ve written about this before, but not in the detail I’m about to present. </p>

<p>It is true that the top schools take a very small percentage of applicants, in some cases less than 5%. That’s especially true for women. Last year, for example, we auditioned 151 women for MT at Otterbein. We made initial offers to 4. That’s 2.65%. One turned us down. We eventually accepted two from the waiting list. So that’s 6 offers to 151 women, or 3.97%. Daunting. Scary, even.</p>

<p>But, as I’ve said before, the laws of physics dictate that even the most talented students can’t enroll in two schools at the same time. Let’s see what that means.</p>

<p>There are 30 schools for which collegeconfidential.com has created individual threads. Let’s just deal with those, and not the remaining 92 on the Big List. From my reading, it appears that the average number of students accepted into those 30 MT programs is around 20. We’re at the low end of the scale at 8; CAP 21 is at the high end with 60. That means that there are 30x20 or 600 spaces for MT majors at the 30 schools. 600 is a whole lot more than 8.</p>

<p>CCM, CMU and Tisch report that they audition between 700-1000 students. But that doesn’t mean that they collectively see 3000 students. With cross-applications, it’s probably more like 1500. My guess is that the 30 schools are seeing around 1800 students total for their 600 spaces. 600/1800 = 1/3. Not bad odds.</p>

<p>We have to modify this a bit for gender. Our statistics show that 67% of our MT applicants are women. Let’s assume that’s the pattern across the country. So of the 1800 students who are auditioning for MT at the 30 schools, my guess is that 2/3, or 1200, are women. They’re auditioning for half the slots, or 300. 300/1200 = ¼. That’s 25%. Not quite as good as 33%, but much better than 3%.</p>

<p>If my analysis is anywhere close to being right, women have something close to a one-in-four chance of being admitted, eventually, to one of 30 schools. I say “eventually” because the top 10% of students are going to receive the first-round offers. But they cannot choose more than one school. So eventually 300 of the 1200 women will be placed in one of the 30 schools.</p>

<p>If you look at the Big List, and make similar assumptions about the entire group of 122 schools, they have 122x20 = 2440 spaces for MT students. I think that means that there are spaces for everyone who really wants to do Musical Theatre. I find that a hopeful thought as I approach the audition season. I hope you will too.</p>

<p>My very best wishes to everyone. See you soon.</p>

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<p>Doctorjohn, thanks for being a voice of reason and encouragement!</p>

<p>I would imagine that when students read that the odds of getting into a certain program are between 3 and 5%, auditioning must seem like an exercise in futility! (Of course, they audition anyway, and they should. Like my own D -- who is only a high school sophomore now -- says "Someone has to make it. Why not me? :))</p>

<p>Still, I am sure that the students who read this board will take heart when they read your post. I sure did, and we are two years out from the process.</p>

<p>Thanks again,</p>

<p>Lisa</p>

<p>PS: Doctorjohn, are the odds a little more in a student's favor if she is auditioning for the drama program at Otterbein, rather than MT? A graduate of my D's high school attended your college from drama, and speaks so highly of it.</p>

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<p>Doctorjohn,</p>

<p>Well....that sure puts a different spin on it! Are you sure you weren't a math major????</p>

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<p>NotMamaRose: The odds are significantly better for Acting than for MT. We saw 32 women last year, and made 4 offers. (Compare that with 4 offers to 151 women for MT.) One turned us down, so we went to the waiting list, and she accepted. So 5 offers to 32 women = 15.6%. One of them originally auditioned for MT, but was such a good actor that we made a "redirect" offer. Incidentally, even though she's not officially an MT major, she's taking much of the MT curriculum. Our MT and Acting majors take the same acting classes together.</p>

<p>Kaysmom, I have to admit that I first went to college as a physics major. But I switched to theatre after (1) a wonderful experience in a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta, and (2) a very bad experience with differential equations. But the math has continued to be useful.</p>

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<p>I work at a University writing about what physicists and other researchers are doing, and I have found that physicists are probably the most creative and even artistic of the scientists whose work I cover. </p>

<p>Doctorjohn, your story of stumbling upon theatre in college reminds me of what happened to one of my D's dance teachers. She was a math major halfway through University when she took a dance class for fun, and to get a phys ed credit. She fell in love with Modern dance and switched majors. Perhaps surprisingly, her parents were OK with it. </p>

<p>Lisa</p>

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<p>DoctorJohn..
I'm curious...you mention your numbers for women auditioning last year. Any chance you'd do the same for men auditioning? I'd be interested in those numbers as well...for BFA Acting in particular. (Younger D has a friend auditioning this year. )</p>

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<p>Doctorjohn: wow- what an analysis of the odds! Thanks!! ..at least it is encouraging for us as parents I think, to know what the odds are. We want our kids to pursue their dreams but also to be grounded in some sort of reality ..I keep telling my D that getting into MT is worse than trying to get into Med School (I always figured she would find the most comptetitive thing there was...she's like that):)</p>

<p>Thirdtree: my D is also a singer who will be appling to CAP 21 summer program this year. She will be auditioning next w/e. Are you thinking of doing that as well? CA to NY is a long way....we're just in PA and I'm worried!!
If D does not make it into CAP, she may apply to Uarts or <maybe> CMU (if there is any room left). We are also looking at many of the same schools, and will be starting some visits soon. My D also has the grades to get into anywhere (thank heavens) but she also wants to do MT more than anything so she has a few non-audition schools picked as well. Perhaps we'll meet up somewhere. Feel free to PM me if your D is doing CAP this summer!</maybe></p>