<p>BwayRocks, Otterbein might be considered a conservatory-type program in a liberal arts enviroment. There is no math or language requirement for MT's. Each quarter the MT's (and all other undergrads) take one class in what is called Integrated Studies. Integrated Studies courses cover literature, the social sciences, religion and philosophy, natural sciences, writing, fine arts and global perspectives. Other than the 5 credit hour Integrated Studies classes all other courses are directly related to music, theatre or dance.</p>
<p>Thanks Sarahsmom42, byorkman, mtdog71, MTaussie. Seems like some schools are clearly a conservatory while others are a bit more vague as to which category they belong to.</p>
<p>UArts is a BFA conservatory program but does have a L.A. requirement with a surprisingly broad array of course offerings. The MT curriculum, of course, has priority for MT students and it is generally understood that the MT courses will be the primary focus of the MT students. Students still must take L.A. classes and get decent grades. Advisors help students select L.A. classes that will be appropriately matched with the demands of a student's performance curriculum in a given semester.</p>
<p>BwayRocks you are correct there is quite an array of liberal arts curriculum requirements within "conservatory style programs" These will range from BFA programs which require approximately 1 - 2 "general education" courses per year to BFA programs which require almost the entire liberal arts curriculum in addition to the BFA concentration courses. There are also BA programs in musical theatre. The general education requirements for these schools will also vary by institution. When you are researching schools it is important to know the type of program in which you are interested in enrolling both in terms of training and general education. There are as many different types of programs as there are students.</p>
<p>MTdog,
You are very bright and bring much to this board.
What KatMT said.</p>
<p>Hi everyone. I recently became interested in musical theatre (during the middle of my junior year) and I talked to my parents about wanting to major in musical theatre in college, and maybe to make it into a broadway musical.</p>
<p>However, I was faced with surprise and anger from my parents. They told me that my dreams of making it onto broadway were just a fantasy, that asians couldn't make it onto Broadway, that I wasn't pretty or tall enough, that I didn't have the talent for it, and that I couldn't sing or act or dance. They also complained that being in musical theatre was one of the lowest paying jobs in the industry, and that it was hard to make a living out of it. I tried to reason with them, but they wouldn't listen to me anymore, and declared that if I were to major in musical theatre, they would kick me out of the house and refuse to pay for any expenses, including audition fees and money for traveling to audition sites, along with my college tuition. They also refused to let me go to the pre-college MT program at CMU and would not let me go to a community theatre either.</p>
<p>I really don't know what to do, because I really love MT. I don't have any training in singing, acting, or dancing, so I taught myself how to do all three by watching professionals, imitating them, and then by experimenting, so I'm not lacking too much in skill. However, I don't understand why my parents had such a negative reaction to MT, and having no one to talk to about this, I guess this is the site to ask for advice.</p>
<p>My parents don't understand that I'm not doing musical theatre for the money, but because I love it as much as I love Haagen-Daaz's ice cream bars. (I really love eating those ice cream bars.) However, I have to decide on whether to obey my parents or disobey them in a few months, and right now, I really don't know whether I should, or how I'm going to get around this.</p>
<p>Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't have any training in singing, acting, or dancing, so I taught myself how to do all three by watching professionals, imitating them, and then by experimenting, so I'm not lacking too much in skill.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you have read much of this board, I hope you realize that this would put you at a serious disadvantage when it comes time to audition. The level of competition is extemely intense. Several people have used sports analogies in the past - yours would be equal to someone who never played football in junior or senior high school, then auditioned for the college team, and made it to the NFL. Has it ever happened? I suppose it might have - but the odds would be incredibly small. </p>
<p>And, if you've read much of this board, you realize how heavily invested many of the parents are in this process. Is it impossible for a kid to do on their own? No - but ever so much more difficult.</p>
<p>None of us have any way of knowing how valid your assessment of your talent vs. your parents' assessment is. But they are right that theatre casting is sometimes a very visual thing, and that there are more actors making a living waiting tables than there are working on Broadway. I'm sure it is hurtful to you to feel that you have a dream, that they won't support. Maybe you can find a school where you can major in something else you enjoy, and have a minor in MT, and get some of those acting/dancing/singing lessons which are crucial to any possibility of pursuing MT as a career.</p>
<p>
<p>However, I was faced with surprise and anger from my parents.
First, let me say I'm sorry you don't have the full support of your parents in your goal. But all is not lost. There are many opportunities for participation in musical theater at universities and liberal-arts colleges all over the country. When you finally figure out how few aspiring actors actually get into the conservatory programs, or how dog-eat-dog the audition process is, or how few successful actors even went to these programs in the first place, you might just decide that a "normal" college education is more important even to your musical-theater aspirations than getting into a specific musical-theater program. Many actors and directors will tell you that general knowledge and a liberal arts education are more important to prepare you for life even in the theater than the somewhat artificial and narrow experience that an undergraduate musical-theater education provides. After four years of college where you've had the chance to be in productions, and expand your knowledge base, you might then decide on a graduate school experience in musical theater....or not. </p>
<p>You'll also have to ask yourself how you're going to pay for college without your parents' support. These are real, basic issues you'll have to deal with in making your decision. There are fine colleges and universities that I'm sure would meet with your parents' approval that will offer challenging and beneficial musical theater training and still educate and enlighten you to prepare for any opportunity that may come your way; from Yale and the other Ivies to your state university. In most universities you enter as undecided and then choose your major (or minor, or double-major) in your sophomore year. If you choose your school well, your parents may never know you're getting a musical-theater major along with your biology degree. ;)</p>
<p>Many others here have struggled with these issues, too, and if you poke around on this site you'll find lots of discussion and guidance. The volume of information can be daunting but here's a short thread you might start with: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=257250%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=257250</a>
And here's the first of the great answers I got when I asked about non-conservatory liberal-arts colleges on this forum over a year ago: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1934935&postcount=521%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=1934935&postcount=521</a>
Good luck to you. I know from visiting here that many feel the only way into this field as a profession is to go to conservatory or BFA programs through the audition process. Talking with professionals in theater, I found this just isn't true. I respect your passion and I know your parents will be proud of whatever you do. Good luck.</p>
<p>serfy, you have received very wise advice by other posters here. I agree with them. First, considering your lack of training and MT background, it is not as likely that you would be successful in the HIGHLY competitive BFA audition process. Even those with far more training and production backgrounds get turned away as the admit rates are VERY low. Like others have said, one can't expect to make a college varsity sport team if they hadn't been doing that sport for years prior to college. One can't expect to get into a music program on bassoon unless they had been studying bassoon for years. One can't expect to go to Harvard if one hasn't taken a very challenging and rigorous HS curriculum, gotten consistant high grades, has high SAT scores, has notable achievements in extracurricular endeavors and so on. (actually, even for those who HAVE done all those things, it is still very very hard to get into such programs) For all of these pursuits, including MT, it is on the late side to start pursuing those college programs and what is needed to get in, starting in junior year of high school. Perhaps it is not impossible, but the odds are way tougher on top of what are already very low odds for those who have accrued those necessary qualifications right along. </p>
<p>Then there is the issue of your parents. It is very hard to pursue this if your parents refuse to pay for you to go to college in this field. You could fund it yourself, but that is a tough row to hoe. </p>
<p>However, all is NOT lost by ANY means on your interests. You should look at BA colleges that either offer a MT or Theater major and/or minor. Not only do you have a better chance of being admitted, your parents can't really control your major as much because there usually is no commitment to a major upon matriculating. Once there, you could either double major or minor with theater. Also, you should look for BA schools with a very active theater scene with many opportunities to be in plays and musicals on campus. I know MANY students heavily involved in theater and musical theater who attend BA schools. In fact, I know MANY highly trained and talented MT kids who OPTED to do a BA program, even if they were accepted to BFA in MT programs such as Tisch. They WANTED the BA path and are very very very involved in theater and MT at their colleges. This is what you ought to look into for the various reasons given.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses! I feel a lot less confused now, from all the alternatives that have been offered. However, this isn't something I want to give up just yet, even if my parents are dead-set against it. I admit, I would feel very satisfied if I could accomplish this goal and prove my parents wrong. And I am willing to work harder than others to overcome my disadvantages.</p>
<p>There was also something that I forgot to mention in my last post. I've been privately trained for the piano and flute for over 14 years, and I have perfect pitch...and I was wondering if that would help in any way to make it into at least a BA program, as most of you suggest, if not a BFA.</p>
<p>Once again, thanks for all the responses! This was the right place to bring up my problems.</p>
<p>Perfect Pitch! Say What!</p>
<p>14 years of piano and perfect pitch will certainly make any theory/ eartraining/ sightreading placement tests, and subsequent college music classes easier for you :) But, they may not do much in terms of helping your admission -- most of the schools that administer those tests do say they are for placement purposes only.</p>
<p>Is majoring in music an acceptable choice with your parents? (Not that the same concerns about employability wouldn't exist!) If so, maybe look at some of the schools where the degree is a BM (OCU, BW, Westminster Choir, to name a few), and see about the feasibility of majoring in piano, while doing the MT track.</p>
<p>FSU also has a BM or NYU Steinhardt aswell.</p>
<p>My D is a high school freshman who has decided on a career in MT. She may change her mind over the next 3 years. But if she decides to go this route I want to help her in any way I can. I am seeking some advice on what she should do to prepare over the next 3 years to increase her chances of admission/scholarship to a MT program.</p>
<p>Background: She is a straight A student/overachiever type. Good at acting and singing. Has never had dance lessons but can "keep up" in dance numbers. Does not play an instrument or know how to read music.
She has been taking voice lessons for 2 years and has won a couple of vocal competitions. She takes all of the performing arts courses in school that she can (she goes to a "regular" public school with a strong PA program). She attends various vocal workshops. She has been in school musicals for the past 4 years but has never done community theater. She attends a local performing arts summer camp (not a well-known program like CMU, Interlochen, etc.). </p>
<p>Given our limited financial resources and limited time for driving to lessons, rehearsals, etc (my husband and I both work full time)....
-Should she focus on her weaknesses (dance & music) or her strengths (acting & singing).
-Does community theater "look better" than high school productions?
-Should we spend lots of money sending her to a well-known summer program?<br>
-We live an hour from a big city. Her voice teacher said that she has a "world class voice" and said that we should consider sending her to another teacher (associated with a conservatory in the city). Again, not sure if it would be worth the time/money.
-What else can we do to improve her chances?</p>
<p>Thanks for your help.</p>
<p>Based on my little experience watching kids older than my D, I would say try to find some dance lessons for your daughter, a regular ballet class or maybe 2 ballet classes a week and then if possible a jazzish or music theatre dance class. If your D is a strong singer and has a caring voice teacher I would follow thier advice on that.
In the last two years we have seen kids who were excellent singers get into very few programs because they did not dance and were uncomfortable dancing. (Of course we didn't see the auditions, but based on their comments and seeing them in HS performances and auditions, their lack of confidence in dance really showed.) We have also seen the very strong dancers but not greatest singers be quite successful (they were boys now that i think of it though) in college auditions.
the only other thing I know about is community versus school - I don't think it matters since the quality of these programs varies hugely and colleges are unlikely to know what the quality is. What has been nice about community theatre for my D is that she gets more variety of roles than just the HS. Meaning that one local CT is very weak and she has had nice featured parts that in her HS should would not have got at a young age, so it shows both an ability and willingliness to take on a variety of roles.</p>
<p>Welcome Ann! It sounds like your D is well on her way and is already doing lots of the things that create a strong background. She can stay on course to strengthen her skills and experience. Bravo on the great academics and she should keep that up. The voice lessons are great. Taking Perf. Arts classes at school, good. School shows, good. Summer performing arts program, all good. </p>
<p>I'll try to address each of your questions at least on a basic level. </p>
<p>
[quote]
-Should she focus on her weaknesses (dance & music) or her strengths (acting & singing).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My feeling is that she should continue to strengthen and build upon her strong areas of acting and singing, but at the same time, it is important to put effort into the areas she has less experience with, particularly dance. MT involves singing, acting, and dance. Often, students are good at one or two and in some cases, all three. Somebody can be admitted to a BFA who is only strong in two areas, if they show potential in the third (though usually voice cannot be the weak area). But the person's chances are enhanced if they are strong and skilled in all three areas. So, my suggestion is that your D try to take at least ballet. If that is not possible, a jazz dance class. Having some dance training is only going to help her as dance is part of the BFA audition at many schools, though not all. As far as music training....her voice training and whatever other classes she is taking at school, which you did not specify......could it be Chorus?....are in the realm of music training. However, an understanding of music theory, being able to sight read music, and basic piano skills can only enhance her skills overall. While sight reading, theory, and piano are not required for admission, these skills are needed in general in this field and can only be beneficial to start now. I don't know how it is in your state, but even auditioning for All State Chorus in my state involves sight reading adjudication. I think if you can ONLY pick one thing, add dance. So, keep up what she is doing for lessons now and add dance. If possible, take Chorus, Music theory at school and some piano lessons, which may or may not be offered through school. Dance would be a bigger priority, however, since it is part of a BFA audition usually. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Does community theater "look better" than high school productions?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No I don't think Community theater looks better than school shows. In fact, colleges will not be judging the resume so much but looking that the applicant has had training and also an experiential background in musical theater productions of any kind. Personally, I feel that school shows and community theater each have benefits. School shows involve a collaboration with peers. In a school production, it is a youth production, and therefore youth have opportunities to play roles, often significant ones, which they might not otherwise get to play if in an adult production. For instance, my D has played Lillian LaFleur in Nine and Lucy in Jekyll and Hyde, and these are not roles she would ever play if it hadn't been a teen production. Also, when in a youth production, you can gauge how she fares in terms of casting over time, though with school, it is in a small local situation. A lot of the kids I am observing who are in BFA in MT programs, often have played lead roles in youth/school productions in their community. In BFA admissions, one is competing with those who have stood out in their local schools and already that means a LOT of kids in the country. If one adds kids who have never broken out of ensemble in the school shows over four years, the applicant pool is greater. It is not so black and white but one indication of many. Anyway, I ALSO think that being in adult productions such as community theater or regional theater is very beneficial in a different way. Often it gives the young person a chance to be in a higher level production (though sometimes that is not the case if the adult production is more amateurish than the school one) and have to handle themselves amongst adults and the expectations of a show at that level. So, even playing a small role or ensemble in an adult show has a different sort of benefit. I don't see school or community theater as one being "better" than the other in terms of background. I actually think it is best to do some of each. However, in terms of admissions, it is OK to only do school shows. Still, someone who has gone through auditions many times in all sorts of theaters gets better at auditioning. Also, someone who has experienced production work at various levels and in different settings might be stronger. I don't mean this so much on the resume but more that these experiences build up their talent in general. I don't think there is any formula as to which credits you must have on a resume. However, someone who has played some lead roles, and someone who has had varied production work, can have a stronger background from those experiences. They also have tested the waters beyond their local school environment. There are no "shoulds" here. The resume itself is not the ticket. But what you do to build that resume, usually impacts the background you build in terms of experience/skill at performing. </p>
<p>I think you will find that those in BFA programs come from a wide variety of backgrounds. Some have only done school shows. My own child, who currently attends a BFA in MT program, had done school musicals (and a few plays) starting in first grade through to graduation, community theater (both local and a more major one), college productions, regional theater/tours, youth productions at a summer theater program, and professional theater. I don't see any of those things as having been necessary to get into a college program but I do think her background has built over time with regard to both training and production work. Basically, she was always working on at least one show at any given time. If your D is involved in performing on an ongoing basis, that is fine. But if you can look for any theater opportunities in your area beyond school, it can't hurt in building up a variety of experiences at different levels or production, as well as opportunities to audition. I do think the fact that my kid likely had done over 60 auditions in her life before college, helped with facing having to audition for college. Auditioning was not a new experience for her when she applied to college (though much more was riding on the line!)</p>
<p>
[quote]
-Should we spend lots of money sending her to a well-known summer program?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, there are no "musts" here. This topic about summer programs has been discussed a lot on the MT forum and I hope you can do a search to read what I and others have written about this matter. Your D need not attend an expensive summer program. It sounds as if she already is doing a local performing arts summer program. The bottom line is that she is training and engaged in MT in summers, honing her skills and building her experiences. I don't know enough about the program she goes to and what is involved. The summer intensives that are sleepaway programs have benefits but are not required or necessary to get into college. These programs are an opportunity to be involved in an intense program, live/breathe theater 24/7, be amongst talented teens from around the country, and to gain training, and in some cases, a high level of youth production experience. My kid did go to a theater camp for 8 summers but not with college admissions in mind whatsoever. She simply loved the theater immersion and I must say, she learned a great deal and made many theater friends. We don't have performing arts high schools where we live, no youth theater (other than at school), no drama classes at school, and so on. Also, at these programs away from home, it is another opportunity to self assess how you fare amongst a stronger pool of theater kids. It is not crucial to attend but it has its benefits. But if you can get all this where you live, then it will suffice. We all have different opportunities where we live, so it is hard to say. </p>
<p>
[quote]
We live an hour from a big city. Her voice teacher said that she has a "world class voice" and said that we should consider sending her to another teacher (associated with a conservatory in the city). Again, not sure if it would be worth the time/money.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is hard to say because I don't know what you are getting from the current teacher and what her/his background is. Has your current teacher ever worked with students who aspire to attend BFA in MT programs? Does your voice teacher work on a MT repertoire? If you are pleased with what your D is already getting, it may suffice. Or perhaps she can continue with the current teacher where she learns X, Y, or Z, but on occasion takes some lessons with this other person to gain OTHER things that the local teacher can't teach her. I'd have to know more to say. I live in a rural area. My D took voice lessons an hour away (45 miles) weekly starting in seventh grade. We drive a lot in our state! She was fortunate to work with someone who has a PHD in the field and teaches adults and youth, both in our state and in NYC, as well as in a theater conservatory in NY. He has trained those who have won Tony awards, opera awards (I can't think of what those are called), those who have performed on Broadway or at the Met, and so on. I think you just need to examine if the person you are working with fulfills your D's needs and if your D can grow with this person and train in the ways she needs to do in order to pursue college admissions. If the person you have now is fine, no need to change. Or, you can augment the current lessons with once/month lessons with this other person in the city. I'd have to find out more why your current teacher suggests the change. Perhaps she/he is saying she isn't skilled or experienced enough to take your D to the "next level" or to help eventually with BFA admissions audition prep. I am not sure. </p>
<p>
[quote]
-What else can we do to improve her chances?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Keep doing what you are doing. Training in voice, dance, and acting are needed. Production work is also important for experience. Doing many auditions helps. Summer immersion is a good thing too. Good grades really help! There is no formula. Keep on this track.....add in some dance....maybe try auditioning for some theaters outside of school and maybe vary up what she does one summer, it depends. My child chose her summer program when she was only nine and we never looked to make a change as she wanted to go back every year. I never really thought about what she had to do to get into college for MT. She just kept up with doing lotsa theater things. Ultimately, skill, talent, and experience will be the key. You can get all those things MANY different ways! </p>
<p>Best to you and your daughter and hope to see you on our forums for the next few years. Join us!</p>
<p>I agree that she needs to get into dance - ballet as first choice. I also think she needs to learn to read music, so piano lessons would be a good start, if she is not learning this in her voice lessons.</p>
<p>i'm a junior in high school and plan on majoring in musical theatre. i have been obsessively searching for schools with good musical theatre majors and have many of the "best" on my list... But i have this huge fear of not being accepted into any of them. i know no one has a crystal ball and can tell me if i will or not... but what does it take? i've been dancing for 12 years and singing and acting for 5. performing is my life but is this enough? All i keep hearing is how competitive these schools are and i know that... but what does that mean? how "good" are the people accepted into the top schools?</p>
<p>Legal, you've asked a big question. The best I can do for you is to tell you to read these threads. They are a gold mine of info. Have some "reach" schools, matches and safetys. Safey schools in this area are usually non-audition programs. If you look at the top of the thread list you will find a FAQ list, in there you will find the BIG LIST, a list of all of the colleges with MT programs and a symbol denoting wheather they are "highly selective" regular or non-audition. Find out everything you can about the school and their MT programs and what you need to audition. Work on your song selections (some schools have "no sing" list) and read plays to get the best
monologues for you. The most important thing you can do is to prepare, prepare, prepare. As far as how you can know if you will get in, that's impossible for us to say. Sometimes it could be as simple as they already have several tall blond sopranos, and if you are a tall blond soprano there is nothing you can do about that. I wish I had a magic answer for you, but nobody does.
Good luck and please refer to this site and please ask any and all questions lots of helpful knowlegeable folks here.</p>
<p>A good thread to start with is the HighSchool Parents/Students - Class of 2008. It was started last winter, I think, and has a ton of info about selecting schools to which to apply and the audition process that you would probably find relevant. I will bump the thread up for you.</p>