<p>If you're at Berkley, then your academic are pretty stellar. Why not look at a B.A. program that does a fair amount of musicals (e.g. Muhlenberg). Check out the non-audition school threads.</p>
<p>Can you give us more information about the program at U of Ariz?</p>
<p>VikkiE--
There's been quite a bit of information about Arizona discussed over the past couple of years on CC. Have you tried a search? Have you read what Samia has written about it more recently regarding how she was cut from the program? What are you interested in finding out about the program specifically? </p>
<p>Anyone--
Is anyone else interested in the history of musical theatre programs? I find myself wondering how old some of these programs are. I guess CCM was first. Which programs were next and how were they developed? Maybe no one else is interested in this, but I find it fascinating and wish I knew more about it. Was it more a theater department offshoot first--or music department?</p>
<p>My D is a senior at UofA, she will graduate in May with her BFA in Musical Theatre. She has had a very positive experience at UofA. There are two musicals a year and two plays. They also have summer theatre. The freshmen MT students produce a show (song and dance) which they take on tour during the year. The school is also associated with Arizona Rep. Theatre and some of the kids have earned some equity points through this association.The freshmen are not "allowed" to audition for the Musicals, yet I do know of at least one theatre major who is not only performing his touring show, he is also in the play, so it is good to know there is some flexibility there. Dance is a constant requirement, and UofA has a stellar and well known dance department which is a tremendous benefit for MT students. There are cuts after freshman and soph. year, however the department is not required to cut students (as Emerson is for example), and just recently the entire freshman class (I think it was the freshman class), made the cut. There is a dorm (Manzi-Mo) with an entire fine arts floor for both men and women which is located right on the site of the theatre and music buildings, with parking right across the street. My D told me her freshman year she only had to get up 15 minutes before class! The fine arts department functions as a conservatory, which gives UofA's very large campus an imtimate and comfortable feel. There are two wonderful theatres where the productions are staged. The productions are first rate. They range in style from the classics (Guys and Dolls) to the off-beat (Rocky Horror Picture Show). Right now the kids are halfway through the run of Side Show. A number of local papers always review the shows which is a great learning experience for the kids. Of course there are voice lessons and a variety of theatre classes, all of which you can view by looking at the course catalogue. Tucson seems far from anything, but it is only an hour flight from L.A., and the Tucson airport is truly the most user friendly airport I have ever visited. There are no weather related delays (except for a few thundershowers in August or September), which makes a big difference to me because I try to attend as many of my D's productions as possible. UofA seems generous with merit scholarships which is so nice, and Tucson is not as expensive a place to live as other bigger cities. Tucson has fantastic restaurants and luxury resorts and blissful weather. My D really loves her professors and teachers at UofA: they have made her college experience very meaningful. A day doesnt go by that she does not learn something or improve a technique. if you have specific questions, etc., I would be happy to answer them!</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing so much about U of Arizona's program from a first hand perspective (well, at least from a parent of a kid there). It seems like a fine option, particularly as there are fewer programs on the west coast and some may not want to travel so far to college if from that region. Your post was helpful to me as I am advising a student from the west coast and we have this program on the list. This past summer, a young man who had graduated in the past few years from the MT BFA program at U of Arizona was cast in NYC for the lead in my D's professional VT production of Bat Boy and he was quite talented. He is working in NYC now. </p>
<p>Best of luck to your daughter and thank you for taking the time to share. I hope you will consider sharing more about her experiences in the future on here.
Susan</p>
<p>Thank you for your response. You reminded me that two MT BFA's who graduated last year both went right to New York and both found work pretty quickly: one in a touring company (I am so sorry that I cant remember the name of the production, but I seem to think it was a children's show), and one as an entertainer on a cruise ship. I have seen some tremendously talented kids come through this program. Also, I forgot to mention that the Juniors and seniors do a showcase for agents, who come from back east as well as from the Los Angeles area. As well, a class that I think is absolutely crucial is taught to all senior MT majors. It is called Auditions, or at least that is what my D calls it. It deals with really basic but important things: living in New York as a starving/working/auditioning actor, checkbooks, rent, budgets, making a living while auditioning, etc. All freshmen have to take one year of tech classes...my D who does not know which end of a hammer is up said it was fine. I will tell you a little story. A dear friend of our D's had his heart set on going to a very well known school in New York City as an acting major. He auditioned at several schools but did not get into his first choice in New York. I urged him to go to Arizona, and told him that if things did not work out, he could transfer anywhere else in the country. I just bumped into him last week when I was in Arizona to catch a performance of Side Show. He was GLOWING! He loves, loves, loves UofA! He has been given some really special opportunities to perform there, he has made great friends, he loves the program. I asked him about transfer plans. He just laughed and said "No Way!". We personally feel that our daughter has thrived in the UofA theatre department.</p>
<p>My son is there as a Freshman and loves it there. It' reassuring to me to hear that at least some still feel that way as a Senior.</p>
<p>I'm sure there is a period for every student when the honeymoon is over...lets face it, no one can have a perfect day everyday of their lives! Also, senioritis really hits hard sometime around the end of junior year...the same as in high school. The kids can hardly wait to get to New York and start auditioning. But a program fits in any number of ways: when the students feel a real connection to their professors, when they learn to refine and develop their craft, when they feel nurtured and their talent appreciated, and tons of other factors. They won't feel all these things every second of every moment they are in school, but in general, they should be aware that these factors are always evident. Kids who are not happy usually know it early on and they know why they are not a good fit with their program. Your son has been in school more than two months now and he is still happy--he already knows the shoe fits! He may have ups and downs over the years but that is what the real world is going to be like for our performers anyway, so the tougher skin they can develop now, the better for later on. As long as your son works hard and improves where he needs to, he should be fine. The faculty really like to see growth and committment in a student.</p>
<p>Lots of good info.</p>
<p>sareccasmom said "You reminded me that two MT BFA's who graduated last year both went right to New York and both found work pretty quickly: one in a touring company (I am so sorry that I cant remember the name of the production, but I seem to think it was a children's show), and one as an entertainer on a cruise ship."</p>
<p>Funny you should mention these two people - they're two of my best friends from U of A! Jon was in the Equity touring company of The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, a children's musical. That wrapped up early last summer I think; I don't know what he's doing now, but he has a permanent back-up job at the Olive Garden, which is a pretty sweet deal (they always give him work if he needs it between musical theatre gigs.) And Trisha was on a cruise ship singing and dancing for six months. She's now performing in a dinner theatre Christmas show in New Jersey, and happily making a living off of musical theatre. She was only in New York auditioning for like three months before landing another job.</p>
<p>Jon actually transferred into musical theatre in his sophomore year; he wasn't accepted into the freshman class originally. Trisha was in my class from the beginning, and she is just so great. I'm going to see her in her show this month, in fact, when I go to New York. Yay!</p>
<p>I'm curious to know who this person is who was cast as the lead in Bat Boy, because I probably know him too.</p>
<p>Samia, I don't know if you would know this young man who graduated from U of A because he is now about 24 or 25 years old. I don't feel right in posting the name but if you PM me, I would share it. He was excellent in the show my D did with him and got very good reviews here.
Susan</p>
<p>Hi All- I am a new member but having been reading this thread back to 2002. At least I think it was this one-same types of subjects and I recognize a lot of the names. Anyway, I have a daughter applying to schools for a BFA in MT this fall. She has good boards 1300+ and a weighted GPA of over 4.25. We live in Maryland and she wants to stay on the east coast. We've seen Emerson, NYU, Univ/Arts, Northwestern, Univ/Mich. My question is does anyone know about the programs at Elon, Catawba, James Madison? Her talents in singing, acting and dance are all what I would call above-average, but honestly, I don't know how great they are. Based on some of what I have read here, especially considering how difficult acceptances are, you have some pretty talented kids. While we are going to apply to many places, I really (privately) don't think her chances are that great. Any other suggestions for schools would also be appreciated.</p>
<p>draMOMMAqueen.... I love your screen name!
There are a couple of quick points I would make and I know others will chime in. There is a lot on this website about Elon, so you should be able to find that. But the first question you should address (before you even address the question of your daughter's talent) is her passion. As is often stated, even if you do have the talent, don't do this if you can consider doing anything else in your life. </p>
<p>Then assess the talent. We all at times feel intimidated by some of the postings here on CC. So don't let that be the issue. But you do need to think about what it is that makes you feel she won't measure up. On the other hand, your daughter seems to have good academic specs, so perhaps you (she) should consider some BA programs with strong theater. Check out the "Big list" on the FAQ thread if you have not.</p>
<p>Cool name and thanks for coming out of the woodwork after three years!! WELCOME!! Please join in! I've been here for over three years myself so we practically know one another, LOL ! </p>
<p>Suggesting colleges without knowing more about your daughter is difficult in that it isn't taking many things into account in finding the right "matches" for her. But I'll throw out some ideas that are general and not as specific to her, as a starting point. </p>
<p>I would suggest if your D wants to go for her dreams, leave some of those highly selective BFA in MT Programs on the list. You do not know if you do not try. However, she needs a more balanced list based on your assessment (I would have to evaluate more information that I don't have here but just going on your brief explanation for the moment). I would suggest she adds three more types of schools to her list. </p>
<p>One is to find some BFA in MT programs that might be a "tier down" from those you mentioned. They will still have low admit rates and are quite selective but often (not always) those who apply to these but also apply to more "elite" programs, may take the elite program offers which takes off some of the top talent off the applicant pool, leaving more openings for some students who do not get into the top BFA programs. Look into Hartt, Elon, Point Park, Baldwin Wallace, Millikin, Otterbein, UMiami, Penn State, Catawba, Shenandoah. Many of these are still very difficult to get into and wonderful programs. UArts was a good one for your D to keep on the list. I think you might want to have some of these on the list and not just UMich, NYU, Northwestern type of schools. </p>
<p>Next, I suggest she has some BA programs by audition that offer musical theater training. Some have optional auditions and some are required. Try Wagner, Muhlenberg, American, Fordham. </p>
<p>Another option is to go to a school with a strong BA dept. in theater where there are MT productions and coursework available, but no audition to be admitted. I'd have to know way more about your daughter to suggest the right ones for her but I'll throw these ones out there: Sarah Lawrence, Brandeis, Skidmore, Drew, Indiana University, Villanova, Tufts, Vassar. </p>
<p>This is just VERY general and in order to truly advise you in your D's college search, I'd have to have more information to evaluate. If you want individualized help of that nature, there are college counseling services available at CC. If you feel you need that individualized assistance with your daughter's college search and/or admissions process, I am the college counselor on staff at CC who helps with theater applicants, as well as regular college applicants. I can be reached at <a href="mailto:susant@collegeconfidential.com">susant@collegeconfidential.com</a>.</p>
<p>I think you are wise to flesh out your D's list so that she has realistic options and a more balanced list because it is hard for anyone to count on these very selective BFA programs and you want her to have some options come spring. </p>
<p>Good luck.
Susan</p>
<p>Thank you so much to all of you who post on this board and share your knowledge and experiences. As the mother of a high school sophomore who has never wanted to do anything except be involved in musical theater, I have two questions you might be able to help me with:</p>
<p>Do students who come from selective arts high schools have any advantage, admissions-wise, over students who come from non-specialized high schools?
I am guessing that the answer is "no," unless the college or conservatory in question has accepted other graduates of the high school and thus the school has established a reputation or sense of credibility with the college or conservatory. But I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.</p>
<p>Does being accepted into a college or conservatory's summer precollege program in any way give a student a leg up in admissions to that college or conservatory's regular college program?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance, and I will take your answers off the air. <g></g></p>
<p>LD</p>
<p>DraMOMMAqueen....I have one more idea for your daughter, particularly as you live in Maryland. Have you looked at Towson State? They have a theater dept. and while the major is Acting, they do have some courses in Acting for Musical Theater. They do a mainstage musical every two years, collaborating with the departments of music and dance. A student can take voice lessons in the music department and dance in the dance dept. This is the sort of BA program that I am suggesting where there are musical theater opportunities and coursework. Indiana and Muhlenberg are like this too.</p>
<p>Have to chime in here, as I graduated from what was then Towson STATE University but is now simply "Towson University."
Yes, TU has a very solid theater/drama program and is just now putting the finishing touches on an amazing new Center for the Arts, which includes not only a mainstage and black box theaters, but also lots of studio space for dance, visual arts, voice and instrumental music.
Though I was not there to study the arts (English major ... major nerd alert here!), I often went to see productions at the school and continue to do so, and have always been impressed by the quality of the talent and the productions.
In addition, the campus is quite nice and is not far from downtown Baltimore, which has an increasingly active theater scene, including the Equity Everyman, Center Stage and Hippodrome. It's also close to several other colleges and universities, including Johns Hopkins, Loyola College, University of Maryland Baltimore County, College of Notre Dame of Maryland and University of Maryland at Baltimore. (Oops, forgot University of Baltimore.)
LD</p>
<p>Wow, another cool posting name all in one day. And another lurker who has finally joined the posting community...welcome and do keep posting now! </p>
<p>You raise some really interesting questions. I'll give my perspective on them both. First, about the "advantages" or not of being an applicant from a performing arts high school....This question reminds me very much of the discussions on the parent forum when talking of elite college admissions and whether or not coming from a private prep school is an advantage or not. My take is this....those coming from these performing arts high schools have some advantages in certain respects. One is that their high school is "known" to the colleges and so the colleges have a basis by which to go by, in terms of talent they've taken in the past, knowledge of the preparation, and an ongoing rapport with the guidance/faculty/adminstration of those "sending" schools. Further, a student who goes to these schools is obviously getting a lot of necesssary training. However, in my view, it is the student who get into college, not the school he/she came from. So, the student needs to be talented to get into a BFA program (and be a good student). A kid at a performing arts high school has lots of that training available right there. A kid from a regular public high school must put together their training both in school, after school, weekends, summers. The key ingredient, however, is training and experience (and passion of course) and it doesn't really matter where you get it. You have to have the talent and the "it" factor too. It might be easier to get this at a PA school but can be pieced together by families where the kids do not attend a PA school. As far as how colleges see them, it really is not a factor so much. In regular college admissions, anyway, schools want diverse student bodies. They want kids from all over and from all types of backgrounds. They don't want everybody to come from the same handful of elite prep or PA schools. Some may say that a kid who stands out in an unknown school may have an advantage over kids in an elite PA school where there are many stand outs in one place and they are all competing to get into the same BFA programs and the programs do not want lots of kids from any singular high school. There are pros and cons, in a way, of being from either background when it comes to admissions. </p>
<p>As a point of reference, our state has no performing arts high schools. If a family wanted that, then it means sending the kid off to boarding school. We did not choose to do that, nor could afford to anyway. My child went to a completely unknown rural public high school. Hardly anyone has ever applied for BFA programs. I know of two who went to Ithaca so I suppose Ithaca will have heard of our school at this point. Nobody at the high school is famliar whatsoever in BFA admissions or programs. Our school has no rapport with these college programs. Even so, my kid got into the majority of schools on her BFA list. One other girl also applied but just to two programs and got into one. My D's roommate at NYU who is also in CAP with my daughter, is a theater friend from our rural state and comes from another rural public high school. We also know other kids in our state who got into BFA programs and did not go to known schools and certainly not performing arts schools. I knew my child was up against kids who attend those but kids from all backgrounds can get in if they have what is needed to be admitted. </p>
<p>That said, my daughter has remarked how there are kids in her BFA program from all the known performing arts high schools (i.e., Interlochen, La Guardia, Orange County School of the Arts, etc.) as well as from many of the theater summer programs. I think a kid can "compete" just fine amongst those from those backgrounds, and can only speak from personal experience. </p>
<p>About the summer programs and if those are an "advantage"....my D did not do any college affiliated summer programs, nor did we ever contemplate these. In my opinion, you should pick a summer experience or program in theater because you want to go to that summer program and it fits what you want to do and not for any preconceived "advantage". Follow your passions, interests, training goals. No need to strategize your activity choices. My child had been attending a summer theater program since age 9 1/2 that she absolutely loved and certainly was never picked with college in mind but only because she wanted a theater immersion camp. She loved it. We never thought about changing to a pre-college program when she was older because why change when her learning goals and experiences were fulfilled where she was and she certainly would never hear of changing. We'd never want to even ask her to. As it turns out, while she never attended her theater camp with college goals in mind, it did turn out to be the most significant theater learning experience of her life and had a huge impact on her. Anyway, what about the kids who DO go to pre-college programs. Does this help get into that particular college ? (not even mentioning that it does help with their training and preparation overall of course) The way I see it, is that it has some possible "plusses" this way. That is, if the faculty and dept. heads have seen your work over a six week period (estimate, some programs vary), it only stands to reason that they know more about you than what they know about someone who they met in a five or ten minute audition. They can't erase what you were like to work with or your stage presence in a show, or any of it. They have observed lots about you. Just like with casting, if you already know someone or have worked with them before, it is helpful over the complete newbie. Then again, if they worked with you before and did not think highly of you, it doesn't help. But I do believe that IF they liked you and you stood out in the summer program, they may be interested in you when you audition senior year. My D told me that about a third of the kids in her freshmen class at CAP had attended the summer program there. I have heard of kids (not lots though) who got into UMich who went to the summer program. Same with OCU. But you can't then deduct that attendance to the summer program equals getting in because it doesn't. At CMU, LOTS of kids go to the summer program and sometimes they take a couple from it and that is it. For those kids who stood out, it likely helped but it is not a given that if you go in summer, it'll help you get into that school. Think of it as one possible "plus" you can get in the admissions chances if you stood out in the summer program at the college you wish to attend. (I'm talking BFA in MT programs....this is NOT true at regular college pre-college summer programs). I would not choose a summer program just to gain this "advantage" though. </p>
<p>I suppose my child was up against kids who went to performing arts high schools and who went to the pre-college program at her college, and she did neither but she got in as did many we know. </p>
<p>I say concentrate on your goals, get training and production experience, which may include summer programs if you have limited resources locally, and go for it. There is not a strategy as to which high school or which summer program will get you in. If you attend either of those, sure you will get good training and thus be a viable candidate. But you can achieve that other ways as well. Many CCers on here have kids at BFA programs who did not go to performing arts high schools or to pre-college programs at the same college they are now attending. There are plenty who do though and so there are pros/cons of any choice you make. Still, there is a bottom line....you need to be able to sing, dance, act, have a passion and drive for this, great work ethic, an "it" factor on stage, and be a good student (the last one there varies per college). You can do that anywhere so reach for the stars!</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Soozievt--what a very well thought out answer. I agree with you on all counts 100% and would like also to add my humble opinion. Neither of my D's went to Performing Arts High Schools nor did they participate in college summer programs. They were (D#2 still is of course) deeply involved in a teen community musical theatre program right here in our area. Because they had almost no theatre at all through their regular high school, they were forced to look outside of school to satisfy their desire to be in shows. I think it actually looks really good on a college resume if an applicant had to search for and find options to the usual high school venue. By participating in this community theatre (year round), they met kids from all over the area (and I am talking about kids who lived 50 miles from our town!), they worked with a variety of directors, branched off into other theatre activities which they would have had no knowledge of if they were having their needs met in high school. I'm not saying my girls wouldnt have enjoyed a PA high school: they would have LOVED IT....however, I dont think not being in one has harmed them.</p>
<p>Sareccasmom, like your D, my daughter would have loved a PA high school. That wasn't an option. We pieced it all together. It just likely meant more hours, plus lots of driving. </p>
<p>Like the kids you described where you are, my D traveled 50 miles each way for some shows she did (not all her shows were that far but some were), 50 miles each way to voice lessons weekly, same with acting coaching last year, 25 miles each way to dance studio about five times per week, and so forth. Unlike your school, our school did put one musical and one drama per year and these are quite good. They bring in a director from outside the school. He has been on Broadway. We don't have any drama program or classes at school. We do have a well regarded music program that even won a Grammy award as a Signature School. But other than chorus, select choir, band, jazz band, and the school productions, my daughter's training took place outside of school. This meant oodles of hours and driving given the rural nature of where we live. Piano lessons, voice lessons, acting lessons, numerous dance classes, and also outside theater productions. Unlike where you live there is NO youth theater in the region. But there are community theaters and these range from small to major. Some involve a great deal of travel. There is not a lot of professional work but my D has done some of that. By going away in summer for an intensive theater program, she was able to get training/classes in all facets of musical theater, as well as be in very fine musical productions, along with a fine talent pool of kids who shared her passion. She got to work with many professionals there. </p>
<p>Your comment about the kids in your region coming from all over and working together......I can relate. In fact, my daughter's college roommate who is also a CAP21 freshman, she met when she was 9 1/2 (the other girl is 20 months older but my D has always had older friends and ended up graduating high school early so that is why they are now freshmen together). The way they met was that they both traveled 50 miles to a city in our state to audition for a big production of Annie. The other girl played an an extra orphan but understudied Annie and my D played Molly. They got to know each other very well though they live about 35 miles apart. The following year, both traveled to that same big theater and were in Gypsy together. Eventually that girl came for three summers to my D's out of state theater camp and roomed with her, though that was a while ago. They ended up taking voice together in the same city, each living fifty miles from it. They maintained contact all these years through theater but never went to school together and not even the same dance studio. The other girl had a very similar background to my D and also lives in a rural town. My D says that they led parallel lives, down to the fact that last year when they were in an adult production of Grease together in that city again where they first met in Annie, that girl got in a car accident on the way home from rehearsal one day, though luckily was not injured. My D then had a severe car accident driving herself a few months later. Now, after meeting up over the years in shows or voice lessons, they are together once again in college. While we live in a rural area, my D kinda knows the "theater kids" over a wide region because they all drive far and wide to fuel their passion and so they meet up. And now at college, she is also together once more with many theater friends from her summer program who live in many different states. I feel like this network of friends who share the passion for theater will be lifelong friends, not to discount her regular friends in our local community/school of course. </p>
<p>It is great that you have the teen musical theater program in your area. Being from a rural area as we are, going to a summer theater program gave my D a chance to have some of that experience as we don't have quite as much here as you may have there. </p>
<p>With these sorts of kids, ya can't keep 'em down!</p>