colleges for non-intellectuals?

Parents Forum
21

<p>It seems like your son would have opportunities at many colleges. </p>

<p>It does seem as if the real question is whether he should apply next year or wait.</p>

<p>Community or state colleges are one option, particularly the former, where the financial investment is lower, and there is more support. However, some people feel that CC’s are not inspiring for their kids, and that students actually have less chance to graduate. I don’t know, and am grappling with whether or not one of my kids should do CC next year.</p>

<p>Just assuming a broader perspective, I wonder why anyone needs to go to college if they have no intellectual interest (and I object to an absolute correlation between ability and intellectualism: some brilliant kids are not intellectuals, and some kids with less traditional aptitudes, who are not conventionally bright, are very intellectual).</p>

<p>Would your son prefer to go to work after high school? Do more vocational training (CC’s have a lot of these courses)? Some people who follow these paths end up doing better financially than their college grad counterparts. How about the coast guard, or fire fighter training, EMT training, plumbing, carpentery, electrician etc? Working in a bank. Has he worked, and does he have any idea about what he might want to do instead of college?</p>

<p>I would not support him going to college unless he really wants to go, and would offer to him your support for other paths.</p>

<p>The important thing is that he start thinking seriously about his future, even while he is on the skateboard. We have found that many boys go into a sort of denial state, spending more time on the skateboard or video game, not less, as this time of transition progresses.</p>

<p>My son was very bright but honestly not that intellectual. On college visits, he would read magazines and daydream about his new girlfriend, while his younger sister perused the catalogs. He treated me as if I was nagging whenever I brought the subject up of college visits. I finally told him that it was perfectly fine if he didn’t go, and went to work, and that if he arranged visits, I would be happy to drive him, but that was up to him. He reacted surprisingly: when I came home that day, he had made out a schedule of visits. He ended up at a great college (computer science major) and now has a great job.</p>

<p>But it would have been fine with me if he had said he wanted to work in the year after high school. A taste of the real world would have been helpful if that had been the way he had decided to go.</p>

22

<p>OP, your S sounds very similiar to my S2 except mine was a football player who just loved to hang out with friends and have fun. At the end of soph. yr. he was not even thinking about college. I did manage to get him to take the SAT in March of jr. year. He did not do as well as the projection you have for your S. He refused to re-take.
Since I was thinking he would prob. attend a CC, I didn’t push it. We were fine with that option if that was what he wanted. A two year degree in one of the trades would have been fine with us. He is pretty mechanically inclined.
At end of jr. year, he still was not very interested in college (even CC) discussions. </p>

<p>At the beginning of senior yr. when everyone started talking about college apps., S2 decided he should prob. send out a couple too, just to keep all options open. We had enough saved for instate publics and were def. not going into debt for a private while he “tried out” college. He applied to two publics with one being a clear fav. over the other…no essays required…just fill in the blanks. He had never visited either.</p>

<p>In early Nov., he got accepted to his fav. and my formerly apathetic uninterested kid was thrilled. Did he turn into an academic powerhouse for the rest of senior year? Nope. But was he excited about going to college? yes!
Part of me thinks that he thought he might not get in anywhere so was trying at first to act uninterested.</p>

<p>He just finished his soph. year at a directional state u. that he loves. His first sem was awful. After that, he learned his h.s. slacker ways would not cut the mustard.
Since then he has done much better and is glad that he went to a univ. since most of the kids he knows who went to our local CC ended up dropping out.
Has he made the Dean’s List? No. But he is holding his own and in general conversations this summer mentions things that he’s studied in college and classes that he has really enjoyed. Music to my ears. He’s halfway through. I think he’s going to make it.</p>

<p>Good luck to you…don’t worry if your S is not too interested right now. College seems like a lifetime away to guys just finishing tenth grade.</p>

23

<p>I want to second those parents who pointed out that a lot of boys just aren’t ready to think about college at the end of 10th grade. Anything further out than a few weeks just doesn’t stay on the radar screen for more than 10 minutes. That ability to ‘live in the present’ can be wonderful-but also nerve-wracking.</p>

<p>If S isn’t showing more interest by spring break of junior year, then I’d adopt the strategies suggested above-starting with a few college visits. Until then, it might make more sense for you to do some reading on your own and develop a list of possibly appropriate schools, so you can help him get a fast start once he’s ready to focus.</p>

24

<p>I think a lot depends on the age of your child. Most boys aren’t thinking about college at the end of sophmore year, especially if they are a little younger (late spring, summer, and fall birthdays). We started my son with a fall birthday a year later in school. I’m glad as he was ready to leave well before graduation and saw college as a way to get away from home. I did find that it’s tough to have an 18 y.o at home. For the younger boys, a gap year may be helpful and you may find that the motivation to get away from home helps to get him looking at a 4 year university. If it was my child, I would not include CC as part of that gap year.</p>

<p>I have a neighbor with similar stats and slacker mentality who I’m trying to help with the college search. Any suggestions besides a CTCL?</p>

25

<p>Just adding that I made a mistake and thought your son had finished his junior year.</p>

<p>Now that I realize that, would change my post to be a little gentler!</p>

<p>All these folks who suggest a few visits to “cool” colleges are right on target.</p>

<p>But looking in earnest really doesn’t need to be so early (we started Feb. vacation of junior year with one, and summer of jr. year with the other two) and it is absolutely true that for some, especially boys, this whole business remains fairly, er, abstract for quite awhile.</p>

<p>I would also change what I said, to include more support in the form of you researching which schools he might like to look at.</p>

<p>We tend to go to one area where there are 3 schools, one state U., one small private, and one alternative, so they can see a variety of types of schools, early on, without regard to specific choices. We also do urban versus not urban.</p>

<p>But, again, it is still pretty early. Maybe he should have another summer on the skateboard !</p>

26

<p>Hi BfloGal, I know you are looking for schools in southern Cal but here are other options. U Montana in Missoula, Montana State in Bozeman, Carroll College in Helena, Whitworth College (University) in Spokane, Eastern Washington in Cheney, University of Idaho in Moscow, Lewis and Clark in Portland. My neighbor’s oldest S was a C+ student in HS, lettered in tennis and swimming, and worked summers at a hardware store that his uncle managed. He just graduated from U Idaho with a degree in mechanical engineering, has a job in Post Falls and will be getting married next summer to a girl from Coeur d’Alene he met at UI.</p>

27

<p>My gut is telling me this kid wants a big school with all the bells and whistles…lots of choices of majors, good academics, lots of cute girls, lots of clubs, lots of sports to watch, maybe some good intramurals to participate in, nice rec center, good housing, good food, great off-campus hangouts, etc, etc. </p>

<p>So, take him to visit some of these schools…they’ll really float his boat.</p>

28

<p>You might also heck out the book by Loren Pope - Colleges that Change Lives. Many of the colleges take kids like yours and turn them on to the passion of learning and making a difference.</p>

29

<p>In our house we are willing to send our kids to whatever school they want to attend (and get in), HOWEVER they have to show us that they are willing to work up to their potential whatever that might be. If I were in your situation, I would tell S that he has one more chance (11th grade) to show us that he is willing to put in the effort before I would spend the money. I know this sounds harsh, but I live in an area where almost everyone feels their child “deserves” to go away to college and I have seen a number of kids who made little effort in HS go away to college and end up partying away with few credits to show for it. The parents turned up their noses at sending their child to cc for a year or two. Not my money that was wasted.</p>

30

<p>^^totally agree with FallGirl…also would like to point you over to the 3.0-3.3 thread in the parent’s forum…</p>

<p>One more thing: your son’s grades are not “awful”…and there are many kids who have similar GPA’s who are not “anti-intellectual”…so the two do not go hand in hand…</p>

31

<p>Not all Cal States are that difficult to get into. Yes, SLO, San Diego and maybe even Long Beach are becoming more difficult, but most others are not beyond where you expect your son to be in the next couple of years. His test score will make up for his below 3.0 gpa, as they have a sliding scale- the higher the score, the lower the gpa can be for admission.
Just be sure that he takes all the required courses in high school. You can look on the websites of the colleges and they spell out clearly how many years of math, English, science, etc. that the students must have taken.
He sounds like a perfect candidate for one of the state colleges. Even though they have some very high stats kids going there, especially now that the UCs are more competitive, there is room for your son. </p>

<p>I would want my kids to at least try college. It’s common for young people, especially boys who may mature a bit late, to find something that inspires them once they are away from home and in the college environment. He won’t have his 10th grade mentality forever. If he goes and decides it’s not for him and he has another plan, fine. But until another plan arises, I’d want mine to go to college, be around other young people who are discovering themselves and have faith that he’ll find himself, too.
Although some people can do well without the degree, it’s much easier to find most types of work with the degree. I also think that the kids who find school difficult are the least likely to go back to school once they quit.
Even jobs that you don’t think would require a bachelors, like jobs with the forest service, want the BA, and for many of those positions, they prefer those with graduate work now. </p>

<p>The problem with out-of-state colleges is that you’ll have OOS tuition costs. Don’t give up on our own state schools so quickly. </p>

<p>.</p>

32

<p>True…that some Cal States are easier to get into…such as Monterrey Bay. (but…San Diego, Long Beach, Fullerton, San Jose, SLO, and Pomona - and perhaps others - are VERY hard to get into these days…especially with a sub 3.0 GPA (based on the Cal State GPA formula)</p>

<p>I was more thinking about the ones that would more interest him … the more popular ones with a more social aspect…less commuters…big sports to watch, etc…would be the ones harder to get into.</p>

<p>If he won’t be commuting, then it’s probably important not to choose a commuter school or a suitcase school. He’ll get bored out of his mind on weekends.</p>

33

<p>A lot of students at the Cal States -even the big popular ones- work on the weekends. One nice thing about these campuses is that he’ll meet students from all walks of life. Many who are there will be supporting themselves, which isn’t such a bad thing for kids of means to witness.
To the OP- you don’t mention in your post if your son works during the summers, but I’d certainly encourage him to. Work is very motivating, builds confidence and will help him grow up.</p>

34

<p>Hi BfloGal! If I’m remembering correctly, your son reminds me of mine (isn’t he in to soccer?). Just so you know, my son has “matured” a LOT this year (rising senior), so let your son know next year CAN be important, but both of you should remember he’s a long way from a plateau. </p>

<p>Metaphorically, check out some U16 boys playing some adult means teams just a years older. FWIW, a lot of my sons inspiration seems to come from his soccer teams; Where the seniors are going, who got recruited, whether they are “into” the college search.</p>

<p>Also, if you haven’t, be sure to check out the West coast version of the parents 3.0 thread.</p>

35

<p>Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. I think I should clarify that by “non-intellectual” I meant that he is not the type of kid who would discuss the latest book he’s read, or talk about world events at the dinner table. His interests and conversations are pretty superficial (latest video games), ie, more of what I might expect from a middle schooler. He says he wants to go to college, but I think he expects that to happen by magic-- that all he has to do is pass his classes and he’s in. He has no concept of the competitiveness or that just “passing his classes” isn’t going to cut it.</p>

<p>When I bring up the subject of visiting schools, he flatly says he’s not interested. He will refuse to go unless I drag him, which I am not willing to do at this point. And I’m very afraid that a gap year will get him out of the school mode entirely. So, I guess I will continue to nudge and encourage him, and keep my fingers crossed.</p>

36

<p>BfloGal,</p>

<p>Your login name suggests this: The less selective SUNYs might fit the bill if your S can stand the thought of being OOS in NYS. Clearly, he’s not Geneseo material, but he’d do well at Fredonia, Buffalo State, Brockport, etc. and he’d have a good chance of getting in. NYS OOS tuition&fees are (by OOS standards) remarkably reasonable: they generally average $14K to $15K depending on the fees. R&B is often no more than $8K/year at the SUNYs.</p>

<p>As for students, at most SUNYs, the average student is not particularly intellectual, but they are also not anti-intellectual. In other words, they’re serious enough about their studies to care about them, but they’re not likely to talk for long, long hours outside of class about intellectual topics and what they’re learning in class.</p>

37

<p>“When I bring up the subject of visiting schools, he flatly says he’s not interested. He will refuse to go unless I drag him, which I am not willing to do at this point.”</p>

<p>I never visited any colleges. A lot of kids just want to go somewhere (here that generally happens to be Michigan, Michigan State, or Eastern Michigan, depending on the stats the person has). CC is the only place were you’re going to see everyone going and visiting colleges all over the place, most people don’t, they go to some standard obvious choice.</p>

38

<p>As a rising junior, it doesn’t surprise me that he’s not interested in visiting colleges yet. Even as a rising senior, S2 only reluctantly agreed to college visits and then groused half the time about “losing” his entire spring break to do it. One thing that might help is if you can finagle a friend of his to go with him on some college visits — some short visits to CA colleges, maybe.</p>

<p>A lot of kids don’t show much interest til senior year, and it’s when all their friends finally start talking about where they have visited and where they might apply that some kids have the lightbulb go off and begin to make their own plans. Some friends just had their kids visit the colleges after the acceptances were in…and a decision deadline was looming.</p>

<p>A friend of mine’s son had grades similar to your son’s and slightly better test scores and was accepted to ASU, by the way, a big college scene if that’s what he wants.</p>

39

<p>Don’t push your son to go to college if it’s not the right place for him. College is not a one-size-fits-all solution.</p>

<p>Look into trade schools, gap-year programs, and job-shadowing or internship programs.</p>

40

<p>*
When I bring up the subject of visiting schools, he flatly says he’s not interested. He will refuse to go unless I drag him, which I am not willing to do at this point.*</p>

<p>OK…what is this kid’s currency? I mean…what can you negotiate in order to have him HAPPILY go along on 2 - 3 campus visits? The promise of a new skateboard in return? Cold cash? A new phone? An iPad?</p>

<p>What is important to this kid that you can afford to negotiate with?</p>

<p>BTW…it goes without saying that the kid only gets the reward AFTER he’s been pleasant and open-minded on the 2-3 campus visits. </p>

<p>My son said he didn’t want to do campus visits, either, but after visiting one campus that he really liked, it was a breeze getting him to go to others. </p>

<p>There’s a formula to use to inspire reluctant students. :slight_smile: …set up tour…arrive early and use the “pretty entrance” (call ahead and ask if you must). Then either eat at a nice campus dining venue or some cool off campus hangout. Take the tour. Visit whatever the tour didn’t include…dorms, rec center, etc. If he’s into watching rah rah sports, go by the stadium…maybe there’s a tour for that by contacting the athletic office. Then, eat again either on campus or off.</p>

<p>Right now, the goal isn’t to visit academic departments and talk about majors. That can come later.</p>