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</p>
<p>Not D., obviously. If she has gotten nothing but As in college, wherever she is is a perfect college for non-intellectuals.</p>
<p>Reading is not pre-req for high standardized score at all. Just compensate with others. It is very possible, for example, to get ACT=33 with Reading seciton score = 28. Slow reading might be a huge advantage (which is in my D’s case) to help to absorb material better and faster actually, because slow reader will know it much better after first reading, will not need to read again.</p>
<p>There is a difference between being intellectual and being smart and being goal-oriented. An intellectual loves ideas for ideas’ sake and is excited about the elegance of logic and argument or in discovering connections between things. A person can be very smart and find useful tools (and use them to perform on tests) but not be excited about the discovery.</p>
<p>Let me give you one example. I took a course in game theory and linear programming taught by John Nash’s advisor as a junior in college, which was one of the hardest courses I’ve ever taken – I learned later that it was a famed course in the operations research field because it was a two-semester graduate course at Stanford taught as a one semester undergraduate course at Princeton and there were 5 kids in the class who had placed in the Math Olympiad. The theory of games and the field of linear programming appear to be two completely distinct fields. But, one of the key things that you prove is that every game can be expressed as a linear program and every linear program has its analogy as a game, so if you can solve one, you can solve the other. Completely surprising and unbelievably elegant. The intellectual revels in this new-found connection that mathematicians call a duality. The non-intellectual says, “Great. I’ve got a new tool. Let’s move on.” He/she would have to be pretty smart to get it, but there is no reason that someone needs to be excited about the exploration to pick up the tool and use it and perform well on tests.</p>
<p>I’m a former academic and often work with senior business people (and sometimes senior people in government). Many of these folks (though far from all) are very smart but very few are intellectual.</p>
<p>Haven’t read through all the responses, but here is my two cents.</p>
<p>Kudos to the OP for wanting to encourage a mediocre student to keep on going. The most important things I learned on my college campus were not in any classroom. Nudge him onward.</p>
<p>Positive forward momentum itself is a good thing. Just make sure he ends up in a supportive environment where he can be successful at whatever he studies.</p>
<p>There are many highly successful people who had horrible high school and college transcripts.</p>
<p>“An intellectual loves ideas for ideas’ sake and is excited about the elegance of logic and argument or in discovering connections between things”</p>
<p>-You have described my D. who still does not like to read and discuss books and politics. She gets excited about a lot of things, it could be another concept in Physics class or Bio class. She might announce that she is interested in another musical instrument and she will actually pursue it by buying it and learning it on her own. No professional goal, just pursuing her own interest. And she palyed it to her friends in 2 days after she purchased it!!! Well, she get very bored with literature and news. So, I guess she is not intellectual, and nobody cares, including her or any of crowd around her. They just enjoy time that they spend together. Why does it matter? It has no effect on anything, professional goals, quality and number of friends, social life, GPA, scores, having very interesting and exciting life. Anything I missed?</p>
<p>Personally, as a ridiculously analytical intellectual, the amount I’ve learned about better ways to live life from my non-intellectual child has been tremendous. I’m much better for it. Is she smart? Absolutely. Quick witted, empathetic, dependable, loads of common sense, which makes parenting sooooo much easier. </p>
<p>In my next life I want to come back as an intelligent non-intellectual, personally. ;)</p>
<p>Just wanted to add because sending kids into the military comes up a lot…</p>
<p>The military is NOT for everyone, it may seem like everyone who joins the armed forces makes it in but I know quite a few who couldn’t make it in and were weeded out. Military life is tough, and although it provides you with good skills in a wide variety, its not something everyone can take up and hang with.</p>
<p>Trade school is not for everyone, only for those who have an interest in things such as metal working or auto mechanics.</p>
<p>If your son is unmotivated at this point, wait until he is a senior in HS and see what he says. If he still isn’t into it perhaps taking him to visit a college he could get into and letting him meet with students or friends siblings that go to that particular school might spark a sudden interest.</p>
<p>After all, college is more then just hitting the books and getting a degree ;)</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread so if I’m redundant–I’m sorry! I just want to say that experiential learning is as important as book learning, and I would look at places that will offer more experience-- Northeastern and Elon come to mind-- internships, etc. in fields that are of interest to him. Many people just learn better by throwing themselves into something physically as well as mentally.</p>
<p>Sorry OP but you are asking the wrong people imo. I am a senior in high school and can tell you that you shouldn’t expect your son to be interested in college sophmore year. Hell, I didn’t even start hearing about college (from other kids) till this year, and most people don’t visit schools until they are accepted anyways. I would have to agree with a previous psoter, your son represents most teen boys in America. He may not be intellectual but that doesn’t mean he wants to skip college, not at all. I would just make sure he applys to a variety of schools in and out of CA and don’t worry about visiting until senior year and hopefully he will see one he likes. He most likely will be interested when senior year rolls around, trust me! </p>
<p>All this talk about Americrops, gap years, and “alternatives” sound ridiculous to me. I’ve talked to a lot of kids in my class (of 2010) and a lot of them did not even apply to colleges, or take the SAT’s. Most of them are going to our local community college, which is fine. If you are serious about transferring CC in CA is a good option because it’s cheap and it gives you a much better chance to get into that UC you were rejected from in high school. Your kid is normal, and I wouldn’t push him until it’s time to start applying. I was so far away from college I didn’t even think about applying to any. Thinking back, I probably would have applied to a few, but In reality I had no chance to get into the school I wanted. And ultimately my parents probably would have pushed me to any 4 year college I got into, which btw you should not do. If they don’t like it there they will be miserable and so will your bank account, so no one wins! </p>
<p>As for staying in CA, i wouldn’t be so hard on that stance. As of now, your son would only qualify for CSU in terms of state schools and most of them are commuter schools. If he’s expecting a real college experience in a real college town, I would look elsewhere. Even in the CSU system the only real residential colleges are Chico, Humboldt, and maybe SLO.</p>
<p>I think you are putting the cart before the horse just a bit. Junior year is a time of great growth especially for boys. My son (now rising senior) has very different interests than he did a year ago. His entire life I thought he would follow one path and now it turns out that he will walk down another.</p>
<p>If your son does stay on the same trajectory, then I think a large state school would be the kiss of death. What will your son glean from sitting in a lecture hall with 500 other students? It seems to me that the people who get the most out of those types of schools are the highly motivated students who wrestle what they can from that sort of education.</p>
<p>There are so many schools with programs that might fit your son’s skill sets. Here in Colorado we have Fort Lewis College that has a degree program in Adventure Education (and before you laugh… my friend has a great job working for Outward Bound!) Or, what about a school like Global College Long Island University? Rather than being stuck in a meaningless university program or spending a gap year working at Target, why not spend 4 years studying around the world?</p>
<p>There are plenty of Cal State schools to look at in SoCal, some not impacted. Look at Northridge (maybe impacted), Dominguez Hills, San Bernardino. The two closest to me are impacted, Fullerton and Long Beach.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you have any religious inclinations, but there are some smaller Christian colleges that are a bit forgiving when it comes to GPA and testing scores. They have smaller classes and they don’t fall off the grid, so to speak. The professors care about how their students are doing. Cal Baptist in Riverside, Concordia in Orange County, California Lutheran University in Thousand Oaks, Point Loma Nazarene University in San Diego area, Biola in Orange County and others, can’t think of names right now. They are worth checking out.</p>
<p>
Dated. They’ve moved on to REMEMBRANCE OF THINGS PAST.</p>
<p>Yes, but Proust is also semi-hip these days…the newer penguin translations are really great, too. OTOH, Finnegan’s Wake is, in fact, inpenetrable for many. </p>
<p>but, I digress, endlessly. ;)</p>
<p>Bflogal, he will have options. The important thing is to find a good fit. My B student with better than average/less than good SAT scores was accepted to three of the four colleges he applied to. One was a reach, one a safety and two matches. He was denied at the reach which he expected and there was no disappointment. He was accepted at the safety which he expected and he was happy about the two match acceptances and one of them is where he will attend in the fall.</p>
<p>Is he intellectual? No. Is he smart? Yes. Why then is he a B student? Because he wants to be…doesn’t care to put in the effort to get A’s. Does that mean we won’t send him to college because he didn’t get more A’s? No. Do we hope he works harder in college than he did in high school? Yes. But do we know for sure? No. Do we think a CC would be a good fit for him? No. But if he doesn’t do well at the four year will that be his plan B? Yes.</p>
<p>Second child is your S’s age. She also says she wants to go to college in SoCal. She is also a B student but we are hoping junior year is stronger. We have already discussed going on a SoCal college tour trip spring break of junior year and she likes the idea. I’ve also told her unless she has a stellar junior year and first half of senior year, her San Diego schools are out of reach. But there may be others in SoCal that would be matches and still good fits. (She is in love with San Diego but USD, SDSU and UCSD are out of her GPA range, at least now).</p>
<p>If you S wants SoCal and big, then Long Beach comes to mind but it is hard to get in now. I think the suggestion of the big AZ schools is a good one–they accept most kids and you don’t need super stats. My S wanted a small school as the way H and I described our big UC experience sitting in a lecture hall with our professor on a stage with a projector turned him off. From that discussion, he knew he wanted a small school, and that’s where he’s headed. Younger one doesn’t think about class/school size yet, but it will be a topic we’ll bring up next year. </p>
<p>S had only talked about his reach since freshman year. Summer after junior year, I knew he had to come up with other options. I asked him “do you want to go to a soccer camp at abc college and xyz college?” He said “sure.” He went to both, liked both colleges, came home and added them to his college list. One of them is where he’s headed. Just getting kids that don’t know where they want to go on campuses starts to give them ideas of what they like and what they don’t. He visited another college that was on his list due to size and location, and came home and said “I don’t like it–I’m not going to apply there.” And he didn’t.</p>
<p>I think the search for each child has to be customized to who they are and how they operate. We never did a college tour for child one but we will for child two. Child one was very specific: I want small, I want NorCal, I want to play soccer at some level at college. The options for those criteria are limited and it made his search relatively easy. The younger one wants San Diego but knows her grades aren’t high enough…yet…and may never be. She’s open to looking at other SoCal schools though and the tour over a vacation makes sense. </p>
<p>I hope you do not think that a child who has a 2.9 and 1700 SAT scores is not capable of college work. He has to want to go, want to work, want the experience and he needs to find fits that can accept someone with his stats. I would not have been having this discussion with my S at your S’s age, because he would look at me and say “why are you talking to me about this stuff when I’m 15 and a sophomore? I’m going to college but it’s not something we need to talk about now.” </p>
<p>If your S is like mine, he will want to “talk” college later. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to go. Mine never wavered about college being his next step but timing mattered. In fact, in general I find that the timing of talks with my kids is as important as what’s being talked about.</p>
<p>My advice would be to relax and focus now on helping him improve his grades. That is what we are focusing on with our D. She will most likely have a good upward trend where our S was flat but consistent with his grades. Your S can also work very hard and do well junior year and give himself even more options. Keep the faith…he will be fine.</p>
<p>I had a really good post- but my internet connection lost it and I didn’t want to rewrite at the time- but let me try and summarize.</p>
<p>Last two years of high school- kids may cram more in, than some do in four years.
Case in point- my own kids- both bright- but learning disabilities which makes academics more difficult- social skills as well.</p>
<p>Both D’s really started to blossom last two years of high school- both were accepted to all the colleges that they applied to- but both took a year off.</p>
<p>Older D took a year off when I encouraged her to, when we saw that she wasn’t charged up to go off to college as I thought she would be. ( despite state and school merit aid) She spent it working with CityYear/Americorps and gained maturity and some organizing skills.</p>
<p>She added another college to( re)apply to ( her schools as publics both in and OOS didn’t defer at the time- but had told her it was just a formality), which was significantly more academic and expensive than her other choices- but it was a " what the heck" choice, although it had become her 1st choice ( we hadn’t looked into it during high school). She was accepted with enough aid to attend ( 100% need based met), and still lives in the area of her college.</p>
<p>But on the other hand- D2 knew in high school she wanted to take a year off- her disabilities impacted testing more than her sisters- she also attended an innercity public rather than a small prep school. Money was an issue- without the older D at home, our EFC was much higher and choices were more limited.
She only applied to two schools as a result- was accepted at both- but resigned- not happy.</p>
<p>We couldn’t afford to send her on a " gap year vacation", and we had talked her out of the Americorps program she had been accepted to ( because we thought it would be too stressful)- but determined to get far away she worked two jobs to earn enough money to volunteer in India for 4 months.</p>
<p>She began freshman year, at the instate public school, and fall qtr, was not fun- most of her high school friends had begun college the year before- at schools like Yale and MIT, and she felt disappointed and stupid.</p>
<p>However, I feel, it was a good school- if limited by the state funding aspect, and she eventually found that there were many good students at her school, who chose not to go into debt ( for instance- her college roommate was accepted at the same LAC her sister attended- but without the aid package). She has just a few weeks to go for her freshman year, and while we haven’t had any big discussions about it- she seems much happier and has lots of plans for next year.</p>
<p>So- I would say- a lot can change in two years. A gap year can be a valuable tool & listen to your kid.</p>
<p>
Hey! We have something in common. I often say, “But I digress. Frequently.”</p>
<p>A lot of my friends in high school who weren’t ready/ didn’t want to go to college decided to give community college a try and dropped out after their first semester. Intellectual or not, the individual must have the motivation and drive to succeed and take in the college experience as much as possible in their own will. </p>
<p>This blog is an interesting read that sums up the differences between high school and college. I highly recommend it.</p>
<p>Most of the thread was too long for my attention-deficit college self to read, but here’s a short anecdote about my younger brother. We’re from San Jose, CA</p>
<p>Started off high school slow, under the shadow of his older brother (me).
Bit of a slacker, smart but loves video games and skating with his friends. Honors courses, but didn’t exactly think that getting A’s was necessary.
I talk to him here and there (his freshman year, I’m a senior, 3 year difference), but he’s stubborn and doesn’t like to listen for the most part.
One day during his sophomore year, my cousin takes him to visit UC Berkeley and hang out with some of our older friends. For some reason, he instantly loves it and decides “I’m going to college”<br>
Flash forward a few years, he pulled his grades up, did his SATs (my parents still had to nag him…) and he’s now here at UCLA with me. Huge surprise if you had asked me years ago. He’s doing much better than I did as a freshman at UCLA too. </p>
<p>Is there a family friend who is “cool” or a cousin that can let me see the college life? Scare him into working his arse off?</p>
<p>Figured I’d chip in with my two cents. (My family lives near Laguna Beach, so we’re native to SoCal too.) </p>
<p>My stepbrother was exactly the same as your son. Not all that interested in “intellectual” pursuits, unless you call pregaming a form of intellectualism. He was a big partier in high school and then, on my mom and stepdad’s dime, went to San Diego State U. Never had a real job. (He parked cars for one summer when he was 22.)</p>
<p>He just graduated this year as a Super Senior, a fifth year student, with an almost entirely useless communication degree after five years of partying. He’s been job hunting for two months and has found exactly nothing. He’s now realizing that the real world is TOUGH, and is regretting not pursuing his studies harder. </p>
<p>My stepsister was the same way in high school but couldn’t get into any Calstates or UCs and ended up doing a year in community college while working a minimum wage job. Big reality check! She just transferred to Vanderbilt and has loved her year there so far and is doing excellently. A year of “reality” definitely helped her figure her stuff out.</p>
<p>To all the people who say, “YOUR SON IS NORMAL DON’T WORRY HE’LL BE FINE,” that may be true-- if you live somewhere that isn’t Southern California. The economy here will literally spit you out if you’re not qualified enough to swim. Working at Del Taco when you have a bachelors is no fun.</p>
<p>I suggest the University of Southern California. As far as I can tell they admit just about anyone. It seems like an ideal place for a nonintellectual young man. In fact, a total lack of intellect might well be a positive advantage there.</p>