<p>I'm trying to develop a list of possible colleges for my dd. She wants to go into some area of science (but not biology, not pre-med, more likely physics or chemistry, or some field she hasn't been exposed to yet, like astronomy or geology, or maybe even engineering). She is also passionate about her music (classical violin). She wants her college to have a very fine orchestra, but she is not interested in a conservatory program, she is clear that music is her hobby (but it is clearly what keeps the balance and happiness in her life). She would want to continue taking private lessons. I could easily see her doing a double major in music and something, but with music as an academic pursuit rather than a performance major.<br>
She wants to stay fairly close to home, so lets say Virginia to Ohio to Massachusetts.<br>
She wants a challenging academic program, and she does not like a party atmosphere. She does not want a "tech" school (like MIT).<br>
At the end of sophomore year, she has a 4.0 unweighted. She took 3 AP exams sophomore year and got 5's on all of them. The only standardized testing she has done so far was the SAT II in Math (II) and she got an 800.<br>
She fancies herself at an Ivy League school, which leaves me with two general questions: Which of the Ivies would you recommend for someone interested in science and music? And given that no one can count on admission to an Ivy League school, what else should be on her list (and why)? Your suggestions will be appreciated.</p>
<p>You might look into Northwestern, which has an excellent School of Music (in addition to sciences, of course). Vanderbilt might be another choice.</p>
<p>I hope Binx sees this thread. Her daughter is a violin player and attends Miami University in Oxford Ohio. They have a very broad list of majors there…and I’m sure the sciences are amongst them. </p>
<p>Doesn’t Oberlin have an orchestra for non-conservatory students? That one would probably be a good one too. Another option would be Case-Western…they also have orchestra(s) for non-majors.</p>
<p>PG has pointed out a couple of good schools BUT you need to find out what the drill is for non-majors. Some schools that have excellent orchestras for music MAJORS do not even allow non-majors to audition.</p>
<p>DD is an oboe player. We had the same issue…she graduated as an engineering/biology major who also played in the school orchestra for four years. We had MORE TROUBLE finding a school where she could play in the orchestra as a non-major, than finding schools with good science programs.</p>
<p>She contacted the head of the music department at EVERY school she had an interest in attending. They were very helpful and gave her the answer as to whether she could even be IN their orchestra as a non-major OR if they had an orchestra for non-majors.</p>
<p>Any school with a NO was scratched from her list and a LOT of schools were scratched from her list for this reason.</p>
<p>I know a few science and music majors at my school (Case). We get free/really cheap admission to see the Cleveland orchestra. The cleveland institute of music is next to our campus, and I believe you can enroll in both, as I know some CIM kids who take classes at case. They give a lot of money to kids who are qualified to get into ivies.</p>
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<p>That’s a very good point. I don’t know what the opportunities at NU are for the non-music majors, nor do I know how often people cross-major across schools.</p>
<p>Take a look at Rice University. It is strong in sciences and has a good music program.</p>
<p>NU does, however, facilitate a double major in it’s music college (Benien) and the arts & sciences college (Weinberg).</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, forgive me if I spelled those names wrong. I’m still a newbie parent of a NU Class of 2014 student.</p>
<p>BU. Bard (not the conservatory - the college has a fine music program as well). Maybe Skidmore? Brandeis. Penn.</p>
<p>Farther afield than you want to go, but worth looking at are St. Olaf College and Lawrence University.</p>
<p>At St. Olaf, something like about a third of the students major in math/science and a third are involved in the top-notch music ensembles, which include far more than the well known choirs. There’s lots of overlap between the two groups.</p>
<p>Lawrence is split into a conservatory and liberal arts college, like Oberlin is, but the the two seem to be much more closely integrated and non-con students are seem to be more welcome to participate in the ensembles—at least that’s the way it seemed to us when my son was investigating colleges he was interested in.</p>
<p>"I hope Binx sees this thread. Her daughter is a violin player and attends Miami University in Oxford Ohio. "</p>
<p>-The same here. D. is senior pre-med at Miami, Music Composition minor. Music provides great relief and classes are easy and relaxing. Also, never had “B” in her life up to now. But my D. was not interested (and still not interested) in any Ivy’s. She has applied to Med. Schools. She wishes to match Miami campus, but she believes that it might be unrealistic wish. Way too nice!</p>
<p>Yeah, we had a similar list. Schools that are excellent for science but not quite as selective as Ivies are easy to find. Schools on that list that are also excellent for music for non-majors are tougher – so it matters how important the music is for her!</p>
<p>First of all, the Ivies that offered the best music life seemed (to my daughter) to be Yale, Harvard and Princeton. And in fact, those are the only Ivies she applied to.</p>
<p>Rice is not a good option because you’re either in the conservatory or not…and double majoring is not really possible/encouraged.</p>
<p>Northwestern has worked well for some - IF they double major. Although the institution supports double-majoring, not all music professors do. From your brief description, OP, it’s not clear that a conservatory-based double major is even an option that your daughter wants, so that may well limit Northwestern’s appeal.</p>
<p>Oberlin definitely gets (and makes pretty happy, I think) kids who are talented and very music-focussed but don’t want to actually be in a conservatory program. They stand a chance of being in great ensembles and orchestras, if they can make the cut.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt can work well. University of Rochester can also work well. You are not likely to have access to Eastman professors, but Eastman student-teachers can be pretty remarkable, and U of R also attracts (I think) the music-focussed. </p>
<p>Wellesley, Brandeis and MIT – all have excellent appeal for science majors, and have serious non-conservatory attention to classical music performance. Also Tufts.</p>
<p>Finally, Swarthmore, Smith (and Skidmore). I know nothing about Skidmore for science, however, and Swarthmore is not much different from Ivies for application selectivity.</p>
<p>Here’s another vote for St. Olaf college. The orchestra is fantastic and something like a third of the members are non-music majors. The whole music department is well regarded and the different ensembles become extended families for the students - there is just an amazing passion for music at the college in general. Generally speaking, once a student wins a spot in a group it is theirs for the whole year (no reauditioning mid-year) and thus there is a lot of continuity.</p>
<p>Wesleyan, though a liberal arts college, has small grad programs in music and astronomy, which adds opportunities for undergrads in those areas.</p>
<p>Mother<em>of</em>Perl,
Good to see you here again!</p>
<p>I know of a couple folks through other avenues who have kids at various Boston (inc. Tufts) schools and NE Conservatory. They seem very happy with the arrangement, though where she goes to school depends on how much commuting would be involved.</p>
<p>JHU has Peabody and one can do a Peabody/JHU double degree. It is highly competitive to be accepted to both programs. One of S1’s friends has been doing just that.</p>
<p>URoch would be a likely admit for her; it’s very strong in science plus has Eastman. S2 applied there and while he was looking for the opposite of your D, liked it. He got merit $$, too. </p>
<p>Case would also be a good one where she would be a very strong candidate and the programs are up her alley. Didn’t you visit there with D1?</p>
<p>You would need to check…but I don’t think the U Rochester musicians play in the Eastman ensembles. The NEC/Tufts and JHU/Peabody double degree programs admit a small number of students. In the Tufts arrangement, it used to be that the student took NO music courses at NEC at least the first year. Logistics are an issue for some.</p>
<p>A couple of additional schools to consider: </p>
<p>Barnard has an arrangement not only with Juilliard but with Manhattan School of Music. [Barnard</a> College, Online Course Catalogue](<a href=“http://www.barnard.edu/catalog/cur/other.php]Barnard”>http://www.barnard.edu/catalog/cur/other.php)</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon is techie school (so that might rule it out) but it’s excellent for science and music.</p>
<p>I do think a visit to Yale is de rigeur.</p>
<p>Barnard - my impression is that it is next to impossible to be accepted into Barnard’s joint program with MSM (I have known 1 person to have accomplished this) and the joint program with Juilliard is almost mythological. Columbia/Juilliard, on the other hand, actually matriculates a few students/year. However, I don’t get the impression that the OP is looking for quite as competitive a program as Columbia/Juilliard, or Tufts/NEC. So the real question is, how good are the music classes/instruction/ensembles for kids at Tufts or Columbia who are NOT in the joint program.</p>
<p>Aaaaand I’ll answer my own question: since Barnard and Columbia are in NYC, opportunitites are limitless. Don’t like your Columbia-assigned music teacher? Go take lessons with whoever you want in NYC who will have you - (at $$$ a pop, of course). Columbia student orchestra not good enough? Go audition for the NY Youth Symphony. All of this takes a lot of dedication and time, so it’s not necessarily the best choice for our putative science major/violin player. But it is an option.</p>
<p>For the joint programs noted (JHU/Peabody, Tufts/NEC, Columbia/MSM, Juilliard) the student MUST be accepted at both the university named AND the conservatory. </p>
<p>There are a ton of excellent universities that have good science programs and opportunities for non-majors to play in orchestras. You just have to check. The tricky part if if the student wants to continue taking private lessons AND play an orchestra. Some schools simply don’t have the faculty to accommodate both majors and non-majors for private lessons. Some do. Some charge additional…some don’t. Some places have orchestras, some don’t. </p>
<p>Our daughter didn’t plan to major in music so she made her college list first…then she eliminated a bunch of schools because they would NOT allow a non-major to play in the orchestra (e.g. Elon) or they had a wind ensemble for non-majors but no orchestra (e.g. Drew)…or they only had ONE orchestra and while they “allowed” non-majors, it didn’t take a genius to figure out that the ONE oboe spot would go to a major first (e.g. College of Charleston).</p>
<p>Wow! Thanks so much for all of the input! You have come up with some colleges that were not on our radar screen. </p>
<p>Has anyone tried to listen in on orchestra rehearsals when visiting colleges? Anything else we should be trying to do on visits? Should she try to meet the violin teachers?</p>
<p>I think memake understands the balance we are trying to strike perfectly. D2 is the kind of person who envisions herself playing with a community orchestra and playing chamber music with friends and colleagues as an adult. But she is persnickety about the quality of her music (hates but puts up with school orchestra, loves youth orchestra, all state, etc). </p>
<p>Case is a really excellent suggestion. We can look into the opportunities for non conservatory students there, and it is marginally within D2’s geographic range. </p>
<p>@stradmom: do you know anything about the Brandeis-Wellesley orchestra? We have heard a couple of recordings on line, but it is hard to get an impression. The available recordings of the orchestras at Yale and Princeton, however, are fabulous. Would it be fair to assume that if the kid is a youth orchestra/all state level player she would get into the orchestra at Yale or Princeton?</p>
<p>@counting down: You are correct that we visited Case with D1. In fact, she applied and was accepted there (with great merit money). Hopefully they have forgotten us by now and we can try again with D2! There is another kid from our HS who is going to JHU/Peabody this fall – sounds very intense to me. </p>
<p>@2collegewego: Do you know what the opportunities are at Carnegie Mellon for non-music majors? If I remember correctly, students are required to have a minor there, so science/music might work out well. Not sure if it would be too techie for D2 or not. </p>
<p>I really appreciate all of the ideas. Anyone familiar with the orchestra opportunities at Swarthmore/BrynMawr/Haverford? How about in Amherst? I originally thought D2 should go to a liberal arts college, but now it seems to me that the smaller colleges just can’t field a high quality full orchestra. Am I wrong about that? Are there exceptions? (St. Olaf’s is probably too far from home, but thanks for that suggestion.)</p>