Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

Parent Cafe
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<p>There are some very long threads on the merit scholarship strategy elsewhere on this site, but I will boil it down to the strategy that makes sense to me.</p>

<ol>
<li>“Aim low.” This means that the school is, for all intents and purposes, a safety school, from a likelihood-of-admissions standpoint. The merit scholarships are usually used to attract kids who are in the top quartile–or better–of admissions stats (GPA/test scores). There may be some kids who have something really special the school needs (an athletic talent, or other very SPECIFIC contribution that the school community MUST HAVE to function, like a flugelhorn or a lighting designer or whatever) who get merit scholarships without being tippy-top of the applicant pool for stats, but my kid didn’t have that. </li>
</ol>

<p>Schools that were a reach for my daughter were the schools that get lots and lots of top-notch applicants and therefore don’t use merit aid to attract students. But even if they did, schools usually don’t use that money to attract applicants who are “reaching,” they use it to lure kids who would be in demand elsewhere. She had only one reach school on her list. Wound up at a “safety” that felt glad to have her and gave her a nice scholarship, honors program, etc. Looking at their published stats, she is well in the top quartile (probably top decile) of her class in terms of test scores. She’s very happy there.</p>

<ol>
<li>Make sure the school actually GIVES merit scholarships to kids who don’t meet criteria for need-based aid. They don’t all, or they may give nearly all of their merit money to kids who also meet criteria for need-based aid. This is my take on how GWU works, for example. They have one pot of money that is straight-up merit, for kids who do not qualify for need-based aid. But they have a bigger pot, with bigger scholarships, for kids who qualify for need-based aid, and those kids can get a scholarship that actually exceeds their “need” (as it is calculated). But if you don’t fall into that pool of applicants, you can’t be awarded those awards. Brandeis has done away with virtually all scholarships for kids without documented need. </li>
</ol>

<p>One way to find out how it breaks down is to scrutinize the information on the website, if they have it out there, or to look at the common data set where they actually tell you how many kids applied for need-based aid, qualified for it, got it, etc., and they also tell you who got non-need-based aid who didn’t qualify for need-based aid. </p>

<p>However, remember that the data on what percent of the MATRICULANTS are awarded merit money does not reflect the likelihood of an ADMITTED APPLICANT being awarded a scholarship. After all, the people who are awarded the scholarship are more likely to matriculate than the ones who are not–that is why they give the scholarships, and if it didn’t work that way, they’d stop doing it. (Brandeis said it wasn’t working for them, and that is why they stopped.)</p>

<p>Also consider that the money may not be evenly distributed across different programs in the school. The most popular programs may need to use merit money less in order to get the yield they want. GWU gives very few merit scholarships in their School of International Affairs, for example. </p>

<p>(I learned this stuff only after the fact.)</p>

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<p>ohmmom: NFTY is a great EC, especially if your DD is involved in leadership. It won’t overcome weak test scores or weak GPA, but neither do any other ECs. My DD was involved in NFTY (not in leadership capacity), but with all her activities in the “religion” area – combined with her sports and music (also not leadership) – it made her a nice well-rounded student, with matching academics. She is currently a junior at Delaware (with, sadly, no merit aid). If she had just focused on getting her test scores up, it would have made a big difference. The only merit money I remember she was offered was $10K/year at URI. </p>

<p>Don’t worry about the ECs. Your DD should just stay committed to those she is interested in. My DD had a few, but she did them either 3 or 4 years throughout HS. The more important thing is to focus on test prep (IMO). Don’t forget the ACT. Both of my kids did better on it. DS took it 3 times because we really wanted him to get good merit aid (due to the types of schools he wants). And he was motivated to study by the desire for better scores whereas DD wasn’t.</p>

<p>If testing is an issue, you can then move on to test optional schools (there are now a lot!) and ignore what I wrote here about testing!</p>

<p>5boys: There’s no religion requirement here! Glad to have your input!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies. D’s GPA, curriculum, ACT and PSAT (no reason that she won’t make NMF) basically guarantee at least full tuition at two schools that we know of. They are fine schools, have what she needs academically, have a minimally acceptable Jewish life, and I’m sure she would be just fine at either. Those are her safeties. They are not, however, her first choices which kicks us in to tough competition for merit aid so that, as I understand it, ECs, essays, etc. become more important. In reading other threads about merit aid, I haven’t been able to get a feel as to how synagogue-related ECs might compare to athletics, debate and other types of school ECs such as class officer. What I’m wondering is would my D’s ECs be considered comparable? She has been involved in NFTY and URJ camps but most of her leadership is at a local level. She also has not received a Nobel Prize or published a significant scientific discovery, as have some on other threads :slight_smile: She isn’t going to change her activities. I’m just trying to get a realistic feel for where she might stand. It’s easy to compare ACT scores but hard to know what ECs colleges value (other than talented athletes) or what colleges might value her ECs. Schools we are seriously considering at this point are Emory, U of Miami, Tulane, UGA, and Pitt. Sorry for being so long-winded and persistent about this. I’ve been researching this for a couple of months and am feeling kinda frustrated.</p>

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<p>ohmmom: You are definitely on the right track.</p>

<p>Here’s a chart that ran in the New York Times last year that might be helpful to you.</p>

<p><a href=“Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com”>Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com;

<p>And here’s the article the Times ran:</p>

<p><a href=“A Rise in Students Receiving Merit Awards - The New York Times”>A Rise in Students Receiving Merit Awards - The New York Times;

<p>Sorry if my post hit on issues that are not a concern to you; I know you feel like you don’t want to “bore” us with details, but they are important and we are happy to help. We can only give input if we ask some basic questions. We like details. That’s why we are here :)</p>

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<p>Ohmmom-We visited all the schools on your list except UGA. D1 attends Tulane. As LINY implied, without more info, there’s only so much advice we can dish out.</p>

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<p>Ohmmom. If you would like to share your D’s stats, we could probably give you a good idea about her chances at the schools you are interested in and perhaps suggest others. My DS applied to Emory, Tulane, Miami, U Maryland, U Delaware, U Florida Gainsville, and U Texas Austin. So far, he has been accepted to U Maryland and Tulane. We are waiting (anxiously) for Miami which will hopefully come out tomorrow.
Having gone through this process twice (DS1 just graduated from Colgate U), I can tell you that one important factor at many of the smaller schools is “designated interest”. Some of these schools really want to see that you are serious. When we visited Bucknell with DS1, the adcom specifically told us that they look to see whether or not an applicant has visited (especially if they live within a 3 hour drive), contacted admissions, emailed a professor etc. They actually keep files on this stuff.<br>
Tulane is especially partial to applicants who show interest. They know that not everyone can afford a trip to visit, but they do know if you have attended a local event and been in touch with staff. And, BTW, the “optional” Why Tulane? essay is not optional!! We visited the school in April of Junior year and made a special appointment to meet with his adcom. He emailed her several times (thank you for meeting with me…I have a question about XYZ) and wrote a killer “Why Tulane” essay. He was admitted and received $2k per year.
Emory also asks on their supplement if you have visited the school.
Since your D is a Junior, if you can swing it, you might want to plan some visits. We spent 4 days in NOLA and 3 days in Miami last Spring break.</p>

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<p>Welcome to all new posters, Jewish or not! :)</p>

<p>Is it FRIDAY yet???</p>

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<p>correction, he got $20K per year scholarship, not $2K</p>

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<p>Ditto here on Tulane. We didn’t want to spend the money to visit before getting accepted but we went to a local info session (with Vitrac and her DD), met the admissions rep afterwards to ask an extra question and DS followed up with an email. Also sent an additional recommendation after the app was submitted (it was from a great community service organization he is involved with, and you know Tulane is big on that!). He was accepted on November 1 (nice and early) with $22K per year (which is what jozuko meant to write, not $2K). DS’ friend, who is higher ranked in the class than him and a NMSF I believe, did not accepted EA to Tulane. I believe she was deferred to RD. I’m sure she didn’t show interest. (We have since visited and Tulane is #1 among the four schools he has already been accepted to. Waiting for tomorrow…)</p>

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<p>My understanding is that merit aid is used to attract students who meet an institutional need or priority.</p>

<p>For example, the institution might have made it a priority to increase the mean SAT scores of the incoming class so that they look more competitive and improve their ranking in USN&WR. If that is their priority, then they will offer merit scholarships to students based on their SAT scores. </p>

<p>The institution might have made it a priority to improve on some metric of diversity–more men (used to be women had the edge, now it’s men, since more women apply), more Jews (it happened at Vanderbilt!), more Native Americans, more kids from states that are not typically represented in the class (they like to say they have kids from all 50 states). They use the merit scholarships to lure those kids to enroll.</p>

<p>The institution might have a need for a particular member of an athletic team. This is frequently the case. It’s not that they “value athletics” as an extracurricular activity that somehow makes the applicant appealing, it’s that they actually need a person who can play a particular position on a particular squad. The coxswain is graduating, they MUST have a new one. These applicants may be offered merit scholarships (at institutions that don’t offer athletic scholarships).</p>

<p>They may also have a need for a newspaper layout editor, a person who can do theatrical lighting design, someone who can arrange close-harmony for a capella groups, an assistant conductor for the jazz band or another soprano saxophone. There is really no predicting or controlling for what they need in any given year.</p>

<p>Youth group leadership and summer camping and so forth certainly make a student a more well-rounded and interesting applicant, but I think that it’s not likely to be something that meets an institutional need or priority. I say this as someone whose kid did not bring anything to the table that met an institutional need or priority. She got her merit scholarships by applying to schools that wanted to bring their mean test scores up.</p>

<p>And I agree completely that demonstrated interest is key at many of these schools. These are schools that are trying to increase yield–yield is a measure of how much applicants like the school and does factor into ranking. If they see a student whose stats are quite high for their applicant pool, and they think the applicant is not really interested, and is just using the school as a safety, instead of giving him/her a merit scholarship to entice him/her to attend, they may defer or wait list instead! GWU definitely does this, and so does American. They don’t want to waste a scholarship offer (or an admit) on someone they think is really not going to come.</p>

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<p>The concept Desk Potato has described is known in the college admissions world as preferential packaging. The best description of this practice comes from the Muhlenberg College website:</p>

<p>

</p>

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<p>Oohmmom,</p>

<p>The other posters have given you truly excellent advice. There is just one more piece of advice that we heard (and followed) that may help you. I wish I could remember the exact phrasing, but it was essentially that your application, essay, contacts, etc should “tell a story” about your child.
For example, if the student is really into music, emphasize that in the app, the resume, the essay, etc. It’s to tell the adcoms over and over the story of who the applicant is. I think this works pretty well with a student who has a strong focus of a specific interest (e.g., music), but is more difficult with a general, well rounded student. Still, it can be a good approach to think about how you want your student to be perceived and then to craft all the paperwork to reflect that.</p>

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<p>The other thing about merit aid is to be realistic about your expectations and research what merit aid the school offers to non-need students. A previous poster touched upon this point, but I will again empasize it. </p>

<p>For most schools, financial aid has a grant component which is often packaged as merit aid or a scholarship. Students who receive these packages are often quick to discuss the “merit aid” they received. Yes,the award is based on their merit, but they qualified initially because of financial need. </p>

<p>It becomes very confusing because students seeking merit aid, but without the need, will not qualify for these packages.</p>

<p>In many schools, true merit aid is not available (without need) or it comes from a different source and is often not as high.</p>

<p>So it is very important to research each school and its policies, so that you are realistic in your expectation.</p>

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<p>I am so glad that I found this thread. You guys have been so patient, kind and helpful. I truly appreciate all of the advice. Here are D’s details; sorry for the length but I’m a novice and don’t know what to leave out.
Interests: Languages and cultural diversity. Loves making friends from other countries and learning about their lives and culture. Music.
Intended major/minor: Some combination of French and International/Global Studies, perhaps one or two more languages, most likely Hebrew and/or Arabic.<br>
School: Inner-city public magnet school in middle of country consistently makes USN&WR and Newsweek top 100.<br>
Grades/Curriculum: 4.0/4.0 u in rigorous IB diploma program. All core courses and almost all non-core courses are IB, pre-IB, or AP. I would not be surprised if she made a B or two in math or science before graduation but she is determined to keep her 4.0. Coursework will include 6 credits each of math and French and 3 credits of chem. Letters of recommendation from teachers and GC should be great.
Tests: ACT: 33 in 10th grade, 34 in 11th grade; PSAT in jr year 228 (state cut-off last year was 209) so should make NMSF. No apparent obstacles to NMF – took SAT last weekend, no discipline problems, will write essay etc.
Honors: 9th grade: First place in state for National History Day Competition (website), presented at Nationals. 10th grade: NHS, Mu Alpha Theta.
ECs: Creative: 11 yrs private piano lessons and 4 yrs private voice lessons with faculty members at small private university. I’m sure they would both be willing to give good recs.
Community Service: Mu Alpha Theta volunteer math tutor, Key Club (participated in various service projects such as volunteering at regional food bank). Song leader (solo or duet) for primary synagogue services about once a month and services for families with young children about once a month, active participation in music planning for services she participates in. We do not have a cantor so this involves active participation throughout much of the service. Has continued to chant Torah on occasion since her Bat Mitzvah. Religious and Cultural VP for local youth group includes responsibility for creative HH services for families with young children. (I’m wondering if D can and should convey to non-Jewish admission people how much training and time is involved in doing all this). Serves on synagogue library committee.<br>
Other: French Club, participated in exchange program with IB sister school in France by hosting French student for 2 weeks (9th, 10th, 11th, probably 12th) and will visit at sister school for 2 weeks this spring. Participated in 5 week NFTY in Israel program, Summer 2012 (pretty life changing). Attended regional URJ camp multiple summers and Kutz Camp (teen leadership camp) as songleading major in summer 2011. Has applied as counselor-in-training for upcoming summer. Tefilla song leading team at upcoming NFTY convention (selected by app and video audition).
Part-time job: Hebrew School teacher and songleader for Tefillah Services.
The academic data is good but there are a lot of kids out there with equally good or better so I guess the questions is how to best present her ECs and her interests so that they help her. She isn’t going to fill a needed slot on a sports team, direct or star in a play, etc. or one of those obvious positions. But she celebrates the diversity of the people around her and builds community among people by songleading, not performing. And we all have bright, talented, wonderful kids who are deserving of these merit awards…
Any advice is more than welcome. I listed iin an earlier post schools we were interested in where we think she has at least some chance of substantial merit aid. Schools where we would be interested if merit aid seemed a possibility are: WUSL, GWU, American.
Thanks so very much! And it will be Friday soon!!</p>

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<p>No additional suggestions right now, but I want to know which URJ Camp she will be working at. Both of my kids went to Eisner and the NFTY Ldor v dor five week trip. My DD will be working at Eisner again this summer!</p>

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<p>Well, as a student with a 4.0 and outstanding test scores, obviously, your daughter is a reasonable candidate at any school. If she is looking for a merit scholarship, by applying to schools that do not normally attract the 4.0/NMF types, really, the nature and extent of her extracurricular activities becomes somewhat irrelevant. </p>

<p>I would be very, very surprised if she did not get the top scholarship from American.</p>

<p>Most recently, it was $20K/year.</p>

<p>She would also be a candidate for Banneker/Key at UMCP, if that would interest her.</p>

<p>GWU does have some merit money for kids without need, but I assume she’d be applying to Elliot? The detailed data make it look like they don’t give as many scholarships to those students, but they do give some. Demonstrated interest will be the difference between being an admit with a scholarship and being waitlisted.</p>

<p>Washington University is a school that has become selective enough that it’s not a given to be admitted even with top grades and scores. I am not sure if they offer merit scholarships or how they deploy them.</p>

<p>Have you considered Northeastern? I understand they do have some generous scholarships. I understand that some of the women’s colleges, like Wesleyan and Mount Holyoke, can also be generous. Goucher is another school that has a few scholarships approaching full tuition for students of your daughter’s caliber.</p>

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<p>My two D’s both sing. As high school seniors they both knew Musical Theatre and Classical repetoire. Oldest D ended up becoming a vocal performance major (musical theatre) at NYU Steinhardt and rec’d $11K in merit aid/ year that would only have been available to her as a music major (talent merit aid–no need). It was the only performance major she applied for after she attended a summer program at NYU and fell in love with NYU, city life and the program.</p>

<p>At other colleges, we used her talent to garner merit aid and as a way of showing that her singing could be a contribution to the college community.</p>

<p>She rec’d a $15K Presidential Arts merit scholarship from GW. She rec’d a bunch of money for talent at Muhlenberg.</p>

<p>Younger D applied to colleges as a studio art major and rec’d talent money for that. She ended up applying ED to NYU, so we never applied to her regular decision schools. But she had completed a music CD to enter the Filene’s talent merit scholarship at Skidmore for voice. ($12K/ year.)</p>

<p>So, I would definitely look into music as a way to make your D stand out and perhaps get some merit aid.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>ohmmom…Your daughter’s stats are excellent. So, my first bit of advice to you is to relaxxxxxxx! I think that you are stressing about her ECs way too much. Her stats alone are going to get her into several of her target schools, most likely with merit money. As an active participant/stalker on both the Tulane and Miami boards, I can assure you that had she applied this year, she would have definitely gotten into Tulane with most likely the $27k scholarship and would have been eligible to apply for their even higher scholarship awards (which require more essays). As for Miami, results will start coming out tomorrow (we hope), but based on past years, I would guess that she would definitely be accepted, with $$. A far as Emory goes, I would say that she has a very good chance there as well (4 years ago, my DS1 was accepted with a 4.25W GPA and a 31 ACT).
As far as her ECs go, I hope that when you read over your post, you can see that she has accomplished a great deal in her 16-17 years. She would be an asset to any school. Feel free to vent and stress out here on CC, but if I were you, I would be proud of a very strong student who I would bet will get into many great schools!</p>

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<p>LINYMOM … URJ Greene Family Camp. We’ve heard they have many more applications than positions so we’re waiting to hear. Thank you so much for your advice and interest. I really appreciate it. My daughter has good academic credientials but that is not enough to to be confident about good merit aid.</p>

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<p>Hi Ohmmom, so nice to meet another from the GFC family. My S has grown up in GFC, and had a wonderful Avodah summer. He will be a second year counselor this summer. I would be very surprised if there were too many applicants for Avodah spots. I have never known anyone to be turned away and the year my S went one of his camp buddies signed up just days before the start of camp and he was assigned a bunk without any problem.</p>

<p>From what I have seen on CC, Miami and Tulane are great choices for both academics and scholarships. GW is also excellent with merit money. One of S’s friends is about to graduate and go on to med school. He was very active with Hillel and loved it. </p>

<p>WUSTL has several merit scholarships but they are very competitive. Just for a heads up, each has its own application and requirements. If this is a strong interest I would suggest that you read about these now so that if they fit, your daughter can work on channeling herself towards the most appropriate ones. It seems that your daughter has been involved with community service organizations and from what I recall from these scholarships, actually leading a project can be a plus. There is one scholarship, the Danforth scholarship, that didn’t get much attention on the website and requires the guidance counselor to reccommend the student. By the way from your statement, " she celebrates the diversity of the people around her and builds community among people" I am almost positive, is exactly what one of their scholarships looks for. </p>

<p>From what you have said it seems that you may not be eligible for FA. However, if you are there are many schools that guarantee to meet need (EFC) without loans and if you do qualify the grant money can be excellent. </p>

<p>Finally if she makes NMF, which sounds very likely there are many schools that will give amazing scholarships to these students. It is a matter of finding the right fit, which may or may not be doable. One that I can suggest looking at is the Arizona State Barrett honors program. Another school that gives lots of money to NM kids is Texas A&M, which based on your Greene affiliation I am guessing you may have some familiarity with. If you look at TAMU, go into it with an open mind and ignor the image you probably have of the school. It doesn’t seem like a school that would appeal to a kid with strong Jewish ties but to my surprise it is. Well, maybe not every Jewish kid but there is an active warm welcoming Hillel a beautiful brand new Hillel building and Jewish sorority and frat. My S who is in his freshman year there is loving it! For his own reasons he chose it over the usual Texas Jewish choice, UT. (Not intending to get any rivalry going with any longhorns, they are both wonderful schools). As you no doubt can tell, if you would like further info on this one just let me know.</p>