This discussion was created from comments split from: Sibling Factor.
As I understand it, Financial Aid is determined by each school, each year, based on your family situation at the time.
As the third child, I am expecting that I will not get nearly as much FA when I apply to colleges next year, as my older siblings have. My parents are having a very hard time with this. They want to provide the same dollar amount of aid to all of us. My older sister and brother are at Yale and Stanford - and they both are getting terrific aid. But a big part of this aid for them is based on family size. When my sister graduates and I enter college, we’ll go from a family of 5 to a family of 4, and brother’s aid will drop. For my second through 4th years, we will be a family of 3, and we’ll get even lower aid.
Even if I managed to get into one of those great schools with fabulous need based aid, I will be looking at a much higher cost for 4 years than my siblings had. My parents will not provide more for me in total dollars than they provided for my siblings, so I expect I will have to take out loans - even though my siblings did not need to. And of course, the COA before FA will be higher in 2017-2021 for me than it was for my sister in 2013-17.
For needy families with siblings at different ages, the system does not treat everyone the same way.
I can’t help but wonder if this is part of what @CollegeReady4 was getting at with her question.
The cost will be higher for you as a single student but it will be less than paying for two students. That’s why the EFC/FA adjusts based on students in college.
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For my second through 4th years, we will be a family of 3, and we’ll get even lower aid.
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Please run the NPCs on your schools’ websites to see what the results will be. Again, if there are already loans listed, that will be an issue if your parents will expect you to borrow to cover some of THEIR contribution.
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I had been dragged to look at colleges when my siblings visited them, and I don't want to go where they went. I would love Columbia or Amherst or Dartmouth but those tend to be super competitive and I don't want to put myself through the process only to get rejected.
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I had a 5.0 WGPA going into this year, and I think it will drop to 4.5 after the 2 B’s. I just got my SATs and scored 1500 - 760 on math and 740 verbal. Pretty good, but sis and bro both had perfect scores. Mom tried to be upbeat about these scores but part of me thinks she is hiding disappointment as she inevitably compares me to them. But at the same time, I am disappointed in myself as I compare myself to them.
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Be sure to have some financial safeties.
What is your career goal?
Don’t compare yourself to your siblings. You are an individual with different strengths.
I don’t know what my career goal is - I am still only 16 - I won’t turn 17 until September!
I didn’t mean to hijack this thread - I was just wondering aloud since OP is thinking of her younger siblings, if she is having discussions with her parents that mine had with my older siblings when they started - they committed to paying the same $$$$$ amount for each of us, because that is what’s fair (to them). I don’t blame my older siblings one bit - they are attending the best schools they got accepted at, that offered them the best overall aid packages.
I do appreciate the fact that my parents will contribute anything at all for any of us for our schooling - they both grew up in families that paid nothing, they had to work their way through school themselves, as they have reminded us children hundreds of times. I don’t want to even bring up to them the fact that the system is very different now than it was 25-30 years ago, that it is not possible to earn enough during summers and the school year at work study to pay for a school like they did. I understand the financial hardship we’ve had due to my father’s illness, but I also understand we are still fortunate compared to an awful lot of families. So it is not really possible to bring up to my parents the fact that giving the same dollar amount to all 3 kids is inherently unfair to the youngest. Mom has decided what she thinks is fair and that’s what she and Dad will do - she is the breadwinner after all, so her vote is the only one that counts.
I have run the NPC’s at several of the schools I am looking at - and most of them do include loans. I run them with a family of 5, 4 or 3 and sometimes the costs are materially different. I understand that Net Cost over 4 years will be a primary factor in where I end up going. I also just found out that the schools I am looking at treat home equity very differently - and my mom will be done paying for our mortgage the year I graduate college. So I have to re-do the calculations for future years to come up with revised estimates, by plugging in a different amount of what the home is worth and how much we will owe on it.
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Mom has decided what she thinks is fair and that’s what she and Dad will do - she is the breadwinner after all, so her vote is the only one that counts.
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When you’re married, I hope both spouses have a vote that counts regardless of who the breadwinner or main-breadwinner is. It’s quite insulting to the non-earning or lower-earning spouse that they’re not equals based on income.
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have run the NPC’s at several of the schools I am looking at - and most of them do include loans. I run them with a family of 5, 4 or 3 and sometimes the costs are materially different. I understand that Net Cost over 4 years will be a primary factor in where I end up going. I also just found out that the schools I am looking at treat home equity very differently - and my mom will be done paying for our mortgage the year I graduate college.
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How much will your parents pay each year?
Do the ones that include loans have a “family contribution” that is higher than what your parents will pay?
Have you asked your parents if they’ll cosign loans if you don’t get enough aid?
Since you’re 16, you still have time to increase your scores if that’s what’s needed to improve your chances at top schools.
@mom2collegekids , I should have clarified, with my father’s 10-year unemployment and depression, he has withdrawn himself from all conversations of more than two people at a time related to our financial situation. He will separately tell me that he’s had a conversation or two with Mom, and he will make sure I understand what she’s said, but never in front of her or my siblings. I know their relationship is messed up from an outsider’s perspective - and I think I understand that in a “properly” functional marriage both parties decide together. This is just something we have to accept because of Dad’s depression - that is, it is not likely to change in the next 5 or six years. From what I have studied and read, this is a lot more common than people think. Mom’s making all the decisions is based as much on the fact that decisions need to be made, and he won’t contribute to the decision-making process - he may sometimes listen but never adds an opinion in front of more than one person. I love both my parents, and I know they are doing the best they can under the circumstances - and when I disagree with my mom, I try to remember what my sister told me - mom isn’t always right, and neither are you or Dad nor anyone else - sometimes its a matter of them not having enough information to make the right decisions, and sometimes the ref just makes a bad call.
My parents say we can pay up to 15K per year. They have been paying 12K per year without loans for Stanford and Yale. They will not cosign loans - if I don’t get enough aid I won’t be able to attend that school, so I am trying to avoid applying to any where our net cost will exceed that. My parents told my sister “Don’t apply to any GAP schools - if they don’t meet need then they don’t deserve you” - and I am sure they feel the same way when it comes to me.
The NPC’s I have run for the schools I am still considering are coming in around this level - but I don’t know how accurate I am filling in the estimations of what the families assets are (other than home equity, they are very little) and I don’t know how to predict Mom’s salary and bonus.
I am torn about taking the SAT again - I scored 1500 on the new version taking it once, no formal review classes but just an old practice workbook from the library. I know I have the brutal transcript, grades 3.8 UW, 4.9 WGPA, and scores, class rank 4 or 5, and determination to be competitive at these top schools but as Dad says, “You’re 5’2”, white, and you can’t dunk!" so I have to rely on my academic record.
I am trying to go about this the right way, but there are so many unknowns, it is difficult to figure out what to do.
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My parents say we can pay up to 15K per year. They have been paying 12K per year without loans for Stanford and Yale. They will not cosign loans - if I don’t get enough aid I won’t be able to attend that school, so I am trying to avoid applying to any where our net cost will exceed that.
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Ok…$15k per year means that you need to have at least tuition covered with grants or merit scholarships…and that would mean that the $15k could pay for room, board, books, fees. If a little bit more is needed, you could either work/save during summers or take a very small federal student loan (no cosigned needed)
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My parents told my sister "Don't apply to any GAP schools - if they don't meet need then they don't deserve you" - and I am sure they feel the same way when it comes to me.
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This needs some clarification. There are “gap schools” that don’t meet need, BUT…will essentially meet YOUR need because of your stats. This means that they will give you enough merit to cover tuition (or more), and your parents money would cover room, board, fees, books, etc.
keep in mind that a few schools pad their COAs, so sometimes you can cut the cost a bit by choosing a less expensive dorm, or choosing a “standard double” dorm room rather than a private room. My own kids’ undergrad heavily pads its COA because it includes their pricey private dorm rooms. Students who choose the standard double dorms save about $4k for the year.
I had wanted to stick to full-needs-met based aid schools, since we have plenty of need, but because these schools are so competitive I am not sure I will even get in.
Since merit aid is not guaranteed to accompany admission, it adds another layer of complexity. I understand the process well enough to know that even though I am competitive enough to get in to many of these schools, I may not be competitive enough to get the ABC merit scholarship at such-and-such school.
Plus, the NPC calculators don’t generally give merit estimates, so it’s maddening to try to predict where I may end up or if a school is even affordable.
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I had wanted to stick to full-needs-met based aid schools, since we have plenty of need, but because these schools are so competitive I am not sure I will even get in.
Since merit aid is not guaranteed to accompany admission, it adds another layer of complexity. I understand the process well enough to know that even though I am competitive enough to get in to many of these schools, I may not be competitive enough to get the ABC merit scholarship at such-and-such school.
Plus, the NPC calculators don’t generally give merit estimates, so it’s maddening to try to predict where I may end up or if a school is even affordable.
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Not so…
You may not have “plenty of need”…not as how the school define it…especially after frosh year. Your parents have a ton of equity. They may have other savings/investments. The family size will be small, etc. ONLY HYPS and maybe a couple of others give aid like your siblings got with two in college.
If HYPS schools have each of your two siblings paying about $12k per year, then you don’t have a lot of need. Those super-aid schools are saying that your family can pay $25k per year at THEIR schools…which means other schools may say that your parents can pay $40k-60k per year when it’s ONLY you in college and a household that has shrunk to 3 people!. Then you’d be screwed!
You can’t stick to “full needs met” schools …that would mean that you have no financial safeties. Do you want to end up having to go to a local CC because none of the full need schools worked out (either acceptance wise or affordability)???
There are SEVERAL schools that GUARANTEE a certain amount of merit aid WITH admission. YES! There are schools that when they accept you, they will award you, say, a full tuition award…at admission! Those schools would be your financial safety schools!
and none of those schools are in the Northeast, at least within a 4-5 hour drive from home in Northern CT
? Are your parents requiring you to be within 4-5 hours of N CT? Don’t you have a sibling at Stanford?
@thirdkidislost
This is my own requirement, for personal reasons, largely due to my relationship with my father, and his deteriorating health. My sibling at Stanford is far more outgoing than I am, and much much less terrified of airplanes.
I realize this may be an criteria where I can’t afford to be that choosy, but I am willing to suck it up and attend a directional state school and live at home if it is my only affordable option.
Ok…so a 4-5 hour req’t from N Conn…
Well, we probably can find you some schools that will give you free tuition in that area and they’ll be better than some local directional school.
What is your major and career goal?
Still very unsure about major and career goal - I am thinking a lot about psychology though.
and I am not enamored by all-women’s or religiously affiliated schools.
Please realize that MANY schools with a “religious affiliation” aren’t really that religious…they don’t care what you are… You don’t go to services or anything.
I understand that, but if they require theology courses I am not interested.
If you want to within 5 hours of northern CT, how about these schools. You won’t get a free ride, most likely…but could garner merit aid to ease the costs:
University of Delaware
Muhlenberg
Ithaca
Marist
Stonehill
How much can your parents pay for you each year?