Colleges in the 2021-2022 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 2)

Parents Forum
2477

In the White House press conference that just ended, the CDC director said once again that no masks are required for vaccinated people. It’s up to local authorities to mandate masks and it only makes sense for places where vaccination rate is very low and cases are skyrocketing. Even then, they seemed to say that vaccinated individuals should continue to feel protected against hospitalization and grave disease if they are unmasked in those communities.

On college campuses, with the vast majority vaccinated? The advice above seems to say that masking should not be required.

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2478

Wow, I’ve been to multiple health care facilities recently catching up on both medical appointments for myself and my kids. Every single place has required masks of patients and all employees are masked as well. Some places don’t even allow non-patients inside unless the patient needs assistance. For example, when I took my 16 y/o to dentist, I had to wait in car, which I would have anyway, but it was required. They called me in my car to ask if they could do x-rays.

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2479

Same. Furthermore, just about every place made me put on one of their masks, regardless of the fact that I came in wearing one.

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Unfortunately, in places with low vaccination rates, it also tends to be politically unpopular to bring back mask mandates, and elected officials either agree with having fewer restrictions or don’t want to risk losing future elections.

I live in a highly vaccinated state, but in a very conservative corner of the state with a low vaccination rate. I was upset when our governor lifted the state mask mandate for the state as a whole, with areas lagging. I think this should be done county by county, depending on the vaccination rate of each county, rather than the state as a whole. Maybe the laws don’t allow a governor to do that…i.e., if the mandate is lifted at the state level the rule would have to apply to the state as a whole, perhaps? IDK.

I wouldn’t say that cases are surging in my area but they are rising, and Delta has made its appearance. Masking has dropped precipitously in grocery stores, etc. in the last month though fewer than 50% have been vaccinated. I’m holding on to my seat to see what will happen. My D is fully vaccinated, but I’m relieved that in a week she will be ending her summer job where she’s a little more exposed to the unvaccinated public than I’d like. She should be safer in college, masked or unmasked, where almost all will be vaccinated.

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2481

Re: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/15/music-festival-in-holland-leads-to-over-1000-covid-infections.html

A single test before an event provides little assurance that an unvaccinated person is not bringing virus in:

  • Could have gotten infected just before the test, before viral load is detectable by the test.
  • Could have gotten infected just after the test but before the event.

An unvaccinated person relying on typical testing to assure not bringing virus into an event needs to self-quarantine for several days before the test (so that any infection before the test will have enough time to produce a detectable viral load) and continue to quarantine between the test and the event (to avoid getting infected during that period).

Note that vaccinated people may want to consider the same if they feel that they need to have extra assurance against breakthrough infections, if the event is something like visiting a medically vulnerable person.

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2482

Where I live, vaccination rates are high, but not high enough for herd immunity against B.1.617.2 / Delta. The counties recently recommended (not required) everyone to mask indoors. Mask use in stores was going down, but seems to have increased after that recommendation. However, restaurant customers do not seem to have reversed the trend of being more willing to eat indoors or pick up take-out food unmasked (although restaurant staff whom I have seen have kept their masks on the whole time since requirements were lifted).

COVID-19 case rates are now about 5-10 times higher than at the low point in early June (just before restrictions were lifted). But since it is mostly people who chose not to vaccinate, it is less of a concern for those who are vaccinated (unlike when there was no vaccine available). If B.1.617.2 blows through the unvaccinated population quickly enough, we may get to herd immunity…

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2483

I asked her and she said they had mild cases/symptoms. She also told me the place that they were where they were exposed was a club that was jam packed with people and no ventilation. If anyone had to guess, it would seem that based on what we now know about the Delta variant having 1000x greater viral load than the original variant, that someone at that club had the Delta variant and was not vaccinated.

My daughter and her school fortunately have now decided to stick together in their final days there. Fingers crossed that no one has it and they can get on their flight and home safely.

@momofboiler1 This is exactly what my friend said they’re doing. Love it!

@Knowsstuff and @homerdog Cornell is mandating the vaccine. Their numbers are 98% for Professors and over 95% for students, but incoming freshmen have not all reported. Surveillance testing which worked very well last year, is required if you’re not vaccinated in addition to masks. If they need to make more adjustments they will and have stated such, but it’s their awesome testing which is what kept the case counts extremely low on campus and the campus open all year with in person and hybrid classes. Students had to sign a contract last year as well. Not sure what they’re doing this year. The one bad thing is the follow through wasn’t as strict as some people felt it should be until the end when kids were missing their testing appointments. If they adapted something like Purdue for this year, which is what they did towards the end of last year, for those not vaccinated (testing is not required for vaccinated anymore) then they will have another successful year.

@me29034 They wear masks while inside without issue, but outside if not needed they do not. If large crowds that is different, but sitting outside with friends on a campus they are generally not wearing masks. If on a bus or something on campus, most are. Why would your kid freak out that the dentist would make him wear a mask? Masks are required in all health offices? That’s silly that he doesn’t realize that. It’s also not about him, it’s about protecting others.

@homerdog Masks at lolla aren’t required. A negative covid test or vaccine are what is required. My kids bracelets came and since they haven’t connected them yet I don’t know what they have to do to upload their vaccines but with the one that is home we’ve already had the discussion about on the train, inside, etc and the mask. Outside, I know they won’t be wearing them, but they don’t mosh, now I just need to hope they are not super close to people either. I’m not thrilled about them going, but bottom line is they’re vaccinated and if they have a breakthrough case, that’s why they’re vaccinated. To protect them from having a worse case.

@Mwfan1921 Where I live, also near @momofboiler1 everyone is still wearing them in the grocery store. I was actually shocked when I went into the Jewel 2 weeks ago with a drink and so didn’t put on my mask right away and really noticed just how many had them on. The only ones that didn’t were the cashier and bagger, which surprised me more than those that were wearing them. I also ran a bunch of errands in a suburb near me that has an extremely high vaccination rate and literally everywhere I went in that suburb everyone had a mask on. Walgreens, the bank, the store, etc. It’s all required in the post office. They yelled at someone when I was there too.

@me29034 It’s Florida. Is anyone surprised? That’s going to be a huge super spreader event. DeSantis is trying to double back and have it both ways. It won’t work. Florida is now the epicenter. It is scary how fast this thing is spreading. We have a condo in Las Vegas and were planning to go in October. We did a quick 180 and said no way. Not based on what is going on there, plus they are now on the Chicago travel advisory. Not that it affects us since we don’t live in Chicago and are vaccinated, but that’s enough to know that there are just way too many cases there to travel there.

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2484

Safe travels for your D.

I also live in a high vaccination area - but also encountered yelling when I went to the post office last week. I went to the supermarket today and everybody had on a mask.

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Amherst College sent out an email yesterday confirming that the college is still returning to fully in-person classes, with no remote option, for the Fall 2021 semester.

They still haven’t announced restrictions for the fall, when all students will have to be vaccinated. For the summer, masks are formally being required indoors but not outdoors; however, this rule is not being enforced, and hardly any students are wearing masks in the dorms. Also, the campus is once again open to visitors, albeit only outside (buildings are not open to the general public). Tours are running again and are entirely outside. Students are allowed to leave campus. Vaccinated students are being tested once per week, and unvaccinated students (though nearly everybody is vaccinated at this point) are being tested twice per week.

Per the Amherst College COVID-19 dashboard, 99.1% of students currently on-campus have had at least one dose of the vaccine, and 97.4% of students on-campus are fully vaccinated (at least two weeks since final dose). Also, faculty and staff are required to be vaccinated as well; 95.1% of faculty and staff members have had at least one dose of the vaccine and 93.3% of faculty and staff members are fully vaccinated.

My D was an RA last year, and during the final RA meeting with their CDC (Community Development Coordinator), their boss, they were informed that while there may formally be rules against parties and mass gatherings, informally, Res Life has no intention of enforcing them. Since classes are only in-person next semester, they can’t simply remove students from campus housing and send them home to complete the semester like they did last year, especially considering that, with everyone vaccinated, they no longer have the moral authority to do so. They said they are bracing for a very party-heavy, chaotic semester, and have no intention of taking disciplinary action against students who partake in said parties. Considering that everyone will be vaccinated, I don’t believe there even should be rules against parties.

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2486

So curious about your daughter’s vaccinated friend who wears masks indoors and in crowded outdoor areas and still got delta…does she have a hypothesis how she got it? From a family member or close friend who she doesn’t mask around? Or does she think she caught it through her mask when she was out? It may be harder for us to trace now that people are vaccinated, since there will be more and more asymptomatic or very mild cases, so she may not even know that her brother/best friend/father/co-worker had covid if they were vaccinated and barely had a very mild breakthrough case…although the general wisdom had been that those very mild cases would be less likely to transmit. This will make it trickier also at schools to reduce spread if most goes undetected, unless they go back to very frequent testing.

And just a regional report. In areas of MA/RI where I’ve been past two months (some of the highest vaccination areas in US), pretty much no one is wearing masks in stores. Grocery stores I now see no one wearing a mask, except perhaps up to a quarter or half of the staff, mostly young, who I believe are unvaccinated (the store knows who is and who isn’t vaccinated among their employees, and unvaccinated employees must wear masks). I do suspect that there will be an increase in mask wearing as delta continues to increase cases, but for now, pretty much no one is wearing masks aside from healthcare settings, and I haven’t been on public transportation but i believe it’s also required there. Well, I don’t mean literally no one, but really less than 1 or 2 percent. It’s fascinating to hear the regional differences!

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2487

Not offering a remote option in the fall will likely be proven to be a huge mistake. There’s near certainty there will be COVID cases on campus (just take a look at the bubble at the Tokyo Olympics). Without the ability to isolate/quarantine infected students, the virus will spread among the students living and studying together in close quarters and jeopardize the semester.

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2488

Do you think that for schools with no remote option, it just means that if someone tests positive, they have to stay in their dorm room for the week or 10 days? I am picturing it like students getting any contagious illness as in past years, where you can’t go to class and have to get the notes, etc from someone. I wonder if schools plan to video all lectures this year, even if not providing a true remote option. I think most classes were videoed last year, so unless taking a newly offered class there should be video of last year’s lecture available. So if you have to isolate, you can keep up by watching lectures, and if it’s a lab class you’ll have to make it up later just like if you had flu or mono in the past. I do wonder now that most schools are allowing doubles in the dorms, what they plan for isolation space for roommate situations. We will see; they’ll have to be flexible to accommodate isolated students somehow, but that doesn’t have to mean offering a fully remote semester-long class.

Edited because I mistakenly used the word quarantine when I meant isolate.

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2489

I have to disagree. With over 97% of the student body fully vaccinated and over 99% partially vaccinated, even with the increased infectability of the delta variant, Amherst is well over the vaccination rate necessary for herd immunity. Vaccinated people are still rarely infected by the delta variant, and even in people who do end up infected, said infection rarely results in hospitalization or death; in addition to the fact that infected people who are vaccinated rarely spread the virus due to having low viral loads. On top of all that, most students are under the age of 25, so they are low risk to begin with. Also, considering Amherst had one of the most conservative approaches of any college last year with respect to COVID, I highly doubt they would be fully reopening for in-person learning if COVID posed a significant risk for the semester. Not to mention that Amherst is being advised by several well-informed sources on the matter, such as David Kessler '73, former head of the FDA.

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With regard to the roommate question, this past semester, fully vaccinated students who came into contact with a COVID positive student at Amherst did not have to quarantine unless they themselves tested positive.

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Hi RosePetal. I think my kids’ school has same plans as Amherst, and I’m happy with that. But for the roommate situation, I am still more curious. As at Amherst, my kids’ school is also requiring vaccine, so I assume close to 99 percent hopefully will be vaccinated (at least once all the international kids get theirs done). But I also assume there will be some mild breakthrough cases among the vaccinated students. In that case, I still wouldn’t want kids to sleep in the same room as someone who tests positive, even if both kids are vaccinated. Just hoping the schools have sufficient quarantine space, because I still think it makes sense to keep positive-testing kids separate from other people, even if they are all vaccinated. Or does that not seem necessary???

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A remote option includes either synchronous or asynchronous delivery. To me, video-recorded lecture meant to be a full substitute is a remote option.

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2493

Everyone entering the Tokyo Olympics villiage is vaccinated and tested. Reaching high vaccination rate (even over the herd immunity hurdle) doesn’t mean the virus won’t spread at all. All it means is that the transmission isn’t self-sustainable over a long period of time. Besides, we don’t even know what the hurdle is on a densely populated campus (especially with these new variants).

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I agree that videotaped lectures for a whole semester would be a remote option. I am picturing that Amherst and other schools may still have in-person attendance requirements where participation is part of the experience and grade, and in person (not zoom) sections and labs, etc, but if you are sick (covid, flu, cold, etc) and you miss a couple of lectures, you can keep up with your classmates by reviewing the necessary subset of lectures on video. This would not be remote-offered class, just the modern day equivalent of asking your friend for notes from the class you missed.

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Actually, not everybody in the Olympic Village is vaccinated; the percentage of Olympic athletes vaccinated is over 80%, which is very high, but not 100% and not as high as the vaccination rate among the Amherst College student body.

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However high the vaccination rate is isn’t the point. The point is high vaccination rate and frequent testing aren’t going to eliminate the presence of the virus. That’s presumably why Amherst will still test vaccinated and unvaccinated students alike. What woiuld Amherst do if some of these students are found to be infected? Would it isolate these students? If so, how would they learn if there’s no remote option and they can’t interact with their fellow students?

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