Fortunately(?) we don’t have the evidence to debate it one way or the other 
Right now we only know that transmissibility may be comparable from breakthrough cases. I’m not sure we have a firm estimate on how many breakthrough cases will result from the Delta variant. I think the CDC is focused on minimizing that number, which explains their NPI recommendation.
3 Likes
The CDC mask guidance was driven largely by the fact that the honor system was not working. Unvaccinated people were going maskless and they were the primary transmitters/spreaders of the new cases. So in order to stop spread they recommend indoor masking in high risk areas so that the unvaccinated who weren’t masking would be forced to mask. So on a college campus with 100% of the cohort vaccinated, requiring masks is a very conservative and unnecessary approach.
1 Like
There is so much about this virus, and especially for the new variants, that we don’t know. It seems that in the absence of concrete evidence, it would be best to err on the side of caution. I totally disagree that many here are blowing this way out of proportion and I applaud Cornell for their response. My son’s school (another small LAC) has also announced last week that they are now requiring masks to be worn indoors for fall. I am not happy about this, not because I fault the school for changing the policy, but because of all external circumstances that are making this a necessity (yes, the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers who are not behaving responsibly, as well as the people who think it’s safe to attend events like Lollapalooza).
12 Likes
“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC’s director, said in a statement Friday. “This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones,” Walensky said.
1 Like
However, the percentage vaccinated in Provincetown and among the visitors to the “giant fraternity party” may differ from that of Barnstable County.
3 Likes
Is your son’s LAC mandating the vaccine and having success with that mandate? Then I’m not sure they need masks. I guess it still depends on the town’s Covid situation. Nothing like the same set of people getting vaccinated and now masking to help those who choose not to vaccinate and also fight the masking.
@wisteria100 is right of course. The CDC always said unvaccinated people had to mask. Not sure why any of us thought that would happen. So making it mandatory for all is more about forcing the unvaccinated to mask. If a campus is totally vaccinated then that’s a different situation.
Seems as though the “natural consequences” of not following the school rules is school disciplinary action up to and including expulsion. Then he can get a job at Target, Home Depot, etc. and be required wear a mask there. Or transfer to a school in Alabama or Florida where he can avoid vaccine and mask mandates and play COVID-19 lottery with himself.
Unfortunately, it looks like the parental restrictions are shielding the son from the “natural consequences” of his intended actions. Perhaps backing off and letting him experience the “natural consequences” will convince him better than any parental restrictions will.
As an alum, I also applaud Cornell.
I agree with this sentiment completely: " There is so much about this virus, and especially for the new variants, that we don’t know. It seems that in the absence of concrete evidence, it would be best to err on the side of caution."
Yale implemented indoor mask requirement this past Monday, announced on Friday afternoon. Vaccines are required of all students, faculty & staff. Yale and Cornell had very similar testing requirements last year, but Cornell allowed students to live in double rooms and appeared to have slightly fewer restrictions.
2 Likes
Yes, mask requirement for all makes it obvious who is disobeying the rules. Mask requirement only for unvaccinated will be cheated on, and is difficult to enforce.
1 Like
Yes, they are requiring vaccination for all students, faculty, staff, volunteers and campus visitors (with exemptions be given for medical and religious reasons, as well as those who wish to delay vaccination until fully FDA approved). However, those receiving exemptions will need to be tested weekly. Their latest update from 7/28 reported a campus community vaccination rate of 86%. I trust fully that they are doing what they believe is necessary to keep the campus community safe.
3 Likes
I’m using the CDC’s vaccination coverage number for the “eligible MA residents” who attended these events. Making no assumptions as to whether CDC is mistaken or not 
BTW, I just looked up Barnstable County itself and it’s currently at 76% for 12+! (69% is for all residents of the county, however - not sure whether that’s a coincidence).
I guess I’m a bit less cynical. My son’s school has a universal vaccine requirement for the entire campus (students and employees) and everyone will be accounted for either by forwarding proof of vaccine status or receiving an approved exemption. I sincerely doubt that there were enough miscreants even to bother worrying about. They dropped the indoor mask requirement for the vaccinated in early July. Now, however, they have just reimposed it due to the CDC’s recommendation and the high rate of transmissibility in the area. It was definitely a sudden change in plans. I see this as more of a mitigation measure due to worries about the Delta variant and transmissibility, not because they were worried that the few unvaxed wouldn’t be wearing their masks in class.
1 Like
I was not talking about unvaccinated students not masking. I was just talking about people across the country in general taking their masks off even if they were unvaccinated. The CDC’s May message wasn’t for all unmasking, but that’s kind of what happened. Not sure why they thought that people who refused the vaccine would continue to mask. That directive was broken from the start.
1 Like
I am afraid next fall will increasingly begin to resemble last fall on college campuses.
6 Likes
I highly doubt that on campuses with vaccine mandates. They aren’t going back to distancing etc. No experts see lock downs coming back.
I don’t know why some on this thread are so pessimistic with zero scientific backup. The Inside Medicine thread is a good one to read if one has questions. Also, I’m sort of obsessed with Andy Slavitt’s podcast. Nothing but facts.
3 Likes
Many employers have delayed return to work plans. Breakthru cases are increasingly common and while they do not result in serious illness, they can be quite unpleasant and may cause long-haul consequences. The surge occurring currently in the hot, and largely indoor South will be replicated at least to some extent when people more indoors in the North due to colder weather. And let’s not forget the K12 schools are facing substantial challenges once again. I don’t think we are being pessimistic, we are merely realistic.
Lockdowns will not be back, but that is a political decision, not necessarily a public health one.
1 Like
K-12 now has a mask mandate in IL and I heard our local district is still going to distance desk and may also stick with teachers changing between periods instead of students.
I unfortunately agree that most are being realistic, not pessimistic. Too much is unknown and schools are not in an isolated bubble, no matter how rural the setting or how high the vaccination rate.
1 Like
I’m sorry. None of this is easy 
I trust you know your son best, but I hope he surprises you and is willing to comply with the masking.
2 Likes
But hasn’t the calculus changed? We see so few hospitalizations or deaths with the vaccines in play. K-12 is definitely more complicated but I don’t see colleges with high vaccination rates looking like last year. Last year, no one was vaccinated. All we had was masking and distancing.
I suppose we will just see what happens. I just wish people here would stick with the facts. I don’t see any scenario where all colleges go back to remote…maybe some with low vaccination rates in states where governors won’t allow mask mandates and faculty refuses to teach in person.
1 Like
D20’s school said the exact same thing until Tuesday. Mask mandate goes into effect today for everyone, even the vaccinated. The school is not requiring the vaccine but has a very high vaccination rate.
I am upset honestly. Her online experience last year was not very good. Lots of prerecorded lectures from years ago, very little live interaction on zoom. I am thankful she will be in an apartment this year, so if things go remote, she has more space and freedom than in the dorms.