Doesn’t the recent evidence suggest that a vaccinated person’s chance of becoming an asymptomatic spreader is reduced by a roughly similar percentage as a vaccinated person’s chance of getting sick from COVID-19?
In other words:
A group of vaccinated people would only have spread if at least two breakthrough infections occurred.
An unvaccinated person in the presence of vaccinated people can only be a spreader if a vaccinated person there suffers a breakthrough infection from the unvaccinated person if the unvaccinated person is infected and contagious.
An unvaccinated person in the presence of vaccinated people can only be infected there if a vaccinated person had previously gotten a contagious breakthrough infection from someone else.
Why not get the vaccine now to get at least some protection (even if less protection that most people would get from it), and then (after chemo is done) get vaccinated again to get the full effect from the vaccine? Given the talk of boosters or revaccination for variants, it does not seem like getting vaccinated again will be a problem from a medical standpoint (of course, this presumes that, a few months from now, there will not be a vaccine shortage, so that you will not be taking a vaccine away from someone else).
Yes, I am definitely NOT giving medical advice here. I am in a bunch of forums where people are reporting what their oncologists are telling them, so i get to hear a lot of oncologists’ viewpoints. I think if I was in active chemo (I’m thankfully not at the moment), i would certainly be inquiring of an oncologist I trust more about “If I get 2 shots now, would it be safe/useful/allowable for me to get a 3rd shot when I’m done and my immune system is back to normalish?” And also, “If I get 2 shots during chemo, which we presume to be somewhat protective, but not as protective as for people who are not in chemo, should I get just 1 extra shot later, or get 2 more (so a total of 3 or 4?”) . And if the answer is 4, but then a booster comes out that is more useful against variants, “Is it really ok for me to get FIVE shots in such a short period of time?”. There are people who are not psyched about vaccines, and 5 shots in a 6 month window may be a bit much for them. I do not think there has been enough analysis to have great answers to this, but I’m sure they will develop. But in the meantime, there are patients who can easily squirrel themselves away in their house safely until they are done with treatment, so it could be their preference to do so, and then get their shots. But they must all consult their doctors to make their decisions.
But I also hope that all chemo patients, including AnnoyingMom’s relative, are using N95 masks when they go out, and asking those around them to mask up. They do have some responsibility and have actions they can take to protect themselves. It’s almost cruel for them to not wear a high quality mask—putting so much responsibility and potential guilt on others when they have that option…I know when i was in treatment, I didn’t want others to have extra pressure when there were actions I could take to protect myself.
Good points. I was thinking the same thing about the outlier case. The person with stage 4 cancer was actually doing well, just had his scans and the secondary (if that’s the right word) tumors in kidney and lung were gone and original tumors shrunk or static. He will unlikely be “cured” or reach remission but they said with the chemo, he would be in a maintenance type mode and nobody saying “you only have x much time left”. So why on earth didn’t anyone protect him? BTW, I just got my J&J today (became eligible Friday) so it makes the situation that much worse that nobody thought of me or the kids being put at risk. These gatherings risk many secondary infections. There was that story a while ago about the 80 person wedding in Maine. Something like 20 got infected but spread to community 100+ infections including deaths (one of the attendees worked at nursing home and another at a prison). I think some of the fear of colleges opening is that risk to the community. My son will be attending a school in an urban setting with a surrounding dense population. I’m expecting they will announce mandatory vaccinations. The city might make them?
Page describes studies and trials in younger populations, starting with age of 12-15 years, with planned studies and trials for vaccinating children down to 6 months of age.
Vaccine availability for children can be helpful with respect to K-12 schools.
Got it, makes sense, the article points out that it would inequitable to have the vaccination center on campus since it would risk allocating supply to students before the general population.
Also, article points out that after the first shot you cannot extend stay on campus just to have second shot after 30 days, Pzifer is 3 weeks only, so may be better option for students having to make a choice.
Because the city health dept has not yet allowed general eligibility, the students are finding other vaccination sites that have extra doses they need to administer or else dispose of them. My D who is a 4th year just got her first dose of the Pfizer at such a site on the south side over the weekend. Because UChicago med school and undergrads volunteer there, they were able to pass the word along on campus and apparently the response was robust. My D said they were also out canvassing the surrounding neighborhood trying to get people into the center for a vaccine. I guess there were a significant number of doses at risk of going to waste.
UChicago saw a sudden and huge outbreak (76+ students) due to frat parties in the first week of classes. No doubt Spring Break travels contributed as well (the university recommended but did not require students to stay put). Campus was shuttered for the most part, and in-person classes have been delayed for at least seven days. Tours for admitted students will still take place, and those living off campus will be allowed to their on-campus jobs. Those living on-campus are in a very restricted “stay at home” order since the outbreak involved residents in multiple undergrad dorms across campus. This is the College’s first shut down due to Covid since last spring’s exodus. There were a couple of party-related shutterings in the fall and winter but those involved and were limited just to the graduate business school. Unfortunately, this time around the outbreak involves one of the newer strains of the virus that spreads more quickly and makes you more sick.
Amherst College actually DID get approved to be a vaccination site, but they cannot get any vaccine doses from the state and have announced they likely will not be able to obtain any vaccine doses by the end of the academic year. Students are encouraged to find places to get the vaccine on their own, and the college will grant permission for students to leave campus. They will also try to provide transportation for everyone who needs a way to get to their vaccine appointment.
Just popping in with a report from Chapel Hill here. UNC is planning on full in-person instruction in the fall. Chancellor Guskiewicz and Provost Blouin provide and update on the summer and fall 2021 | UNC-Chapel Hill They have been testing every student on campus at least once a week and will continue to do that and they are also vaccinating students at an on campus vaccine clinic. I do not anticipate them requiring the vaccination for the fall like Duke is because they are public and there are the sticky bits about that vs being private like Duke. UNC has been having low positivity rates with the testing with a 0.4% positive test rate out of more than 150k tests since Jan 2021. From where I sit I am guessing things will be pretty close to normal in the fall. I think they will still be running a vaccine clinic, though, but when you have a major med school that just comes with the territory. UNC and the Chapel Hill community are very health-conscious and have continued to have one of the lowest rates of COVID per capita in the state.
But, I do anticipate a drop-off in mask use as the weather heats up. We are all vaxed here in my family, even my high schooler, and we are continuing to wear masks inside stores for sure, but also outside because we don’t want to be seen as non-maskers. But I think there aren’t going to be nearly as many people wearing them outside this summer as did last summer. We have nearly 100% mask compliance inside everywhere I have been in Chapel Hill, and outside it’s still pretty common to see the students and everyone else masked up (maybe 50%), but once it hits 90º I’m betting that falls off pretty fast.
I’m concerned about how the J&J pause will effect the overall vaccine effort, especially for mass vaccination sites including at colleges. I got my J&J as part of a mass vaccination held on Sat and Sun this weekend. Many thousands were vaccinated. They did this previously a few weeks ago also with J&J. I’m not sure how the county could do that with a two step shot. Possible, but logically very cumbersome. Does anyone have any experience with colleges offering the vaccine? Has this been offered on single apt basis or mass clinics? Are they mostly doing the J&J? Are they offering a choice? J&J is not approved for under 18, and there will be some freshmen over the summer incoming who are not yet 18. Maybe colleges won’t be doing J&J for that reason anyway. I am not personally concerned about having my J&J but worried about the overall setback and what this means for getting back to full in-person classes, etc.
Haverford’s vaccinations on campus are Moderna, and they’re scheduling the two doses in a sequence at once. They’re doing a clinic on campus where a local pharmacy is bringing the shots to them and administering them. They started in the tier system and its now open to everyone on campus who needs to start their shots, and the series will be completed before the semester is over. I know PA had prioritized the J&J shot for specific populations, so it wasn’t a surprise that wasn’t what was being brought to campus.
My son’s campus is providing 700 appointments for Moderna this week. They have also been regularly providing links/information for other vaccination sites near campus in an effort to encourage as many students as possible to get the vaccine now (they still have six weeks left in campus).
Good to know the colleges are not relying only on the J&J and hopefully this will not slow things down. I’m in PA Chester Co, and on Friday an email went out to everyone in the county that they were suddenly opening the vaccines to all tiers and that they had the J&J clinic that coming weekend at West Chester University. It was a huge turnout. Possibly 16k or more vax.
My mother did hers, Pfizer, at a 2 step drive up clinic. One Sunday, drove up and got 1st dose. Three weeks later, same time and place, got second shot. 10,000 shots given out each weekend.
They were doing drive up clinics for J&J but stopped them this week. Now are doing the same clinic but now giving Moderna or Pfizer, and scheduling the second shot for 3or 4 weeks later. The big hospital system running the drive-thru is now just giving J&J at doctor’s offices or in hospital clinics.
That’s great, and it’s good to hear mass vax with the other shots is do-able! Our county has been especially bad on the roll out of the vaccine. They went from far behind and stalled and then this literally popped up with the weekend.
It was done through the county and not any particular hospital system.